Attic conversion

pookey1

There have been past threads on this which I've read... but left scratching my head.

House I'm buying has attic conversion with planning permission for storage only, but is a bedroom and we need to use it as such. I am clear that it cannot comply with fire regs, hence cannot satisfy building regs for habitation. This seems fairly common. However I gather you would want to ensure an attic conversion in a two story house is structurally sound. We have been given an architects cert of compliance as well as an engineers cert. It is unclear to me whether engineer inspected the works at the time, or after they were completed (at which point it would be impossible to see how it was done as all covered up - my surveyor tells me). The engineer cert (SE 9101) says they did NOT supervise the works, but monitored constuction in line with the "normal services" of SE 9101. What does that mean? And how am I to be satisfied construction was done properly - e.g. steel not timber used etc...?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231161/attic-conversion

The cert states that they inspected the owrk at the time, but there where not there every day supervising everything the builder did. That is normal services.

Attics can comply with fire regs btw, maybe this one cannot for whatever reason. But in general, its possible to have a compliant bedroom up there.

pookey1

Great ok. And how would I find out if steel or timber used...? Ask for original plans for the works? That is reassuring that "normal services" means mid-works inspection.

Yes this one can't comply for reasons to do with size of space.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582776#Comment_118582776

Could ask for construction drawings for the conversion. But I don't that are obliged to hand them over.

Could also just ask if it was timber of steel.

pookey1

Thanks. Was done in recent past so plans are all online. I can't find the word "steel" anyway in the drawings...

Doolittle51

What's the obsession with steel? It may have been adequate to just use wood. Maybe the roof trusses were designed to allow a conversion to be carried out without the need for steel. I think steel is overused anyway. Structural engineers love to use it, because it's makes their job easier but it's not always required.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601052#Comment_118601052

They were presumably planning drawings not construction drawings.

Would be very strange for the construction drawings to be online

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601131#Comment_118601131

I done my attic with Timber Too.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601052#Comment_118601052

Online is simply planning drawings. Not construction drawings.

the vendor has given the certs of compliance. That’s all you’ll get from them in my experience.

very rare I see the buyers get copies of the actual working drawings when buying second hand.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613607#Comment_118613607

It's of no benefit for the venfor to provide them And the professional who owns them the IP wouldn't be too delighted with their hard work pass out to buyers

pookey1

Yes you are both correct, were planning drawings not construction drawings.

I spoke to a builder and an architect. Turns out there was steel used - just not steel beams. Builder is australian and thinks Irish are obsessed with steel... but would have been over-engineered if used. Says timber fine as the joists are able to span from wall to wall for the floor. I also rang the engineer who did it (on suggestion of the estate agent). Assured me that he would have inspected mid-works - which is the issue as it's all boarded up and can't be seen. So basically gor full comfort in the end and now have the keys! Thanks for your help.

Slashs hat

Hi there,

I'm in the process of buying a house and our surveyor report has come back stating the following issue regarding the attic conversion.

The report states:

'There was no evidence of significant structural issues at the time of the survey, however, a reappraisal (Certificate of Exemption from Planning and Compliance with Part A (Structure) of the Building Regulations should be obtained for the attic conversion works) of the attic conversion works is advised by a Chartered Structural Engineer and recertification with Building Regulations obtained prior to the exchange of contracts.

The existing Opinion on Compliance with Planning and Building Regulations document provided by XXXXX in April 2009 is not sufficient and a full appraisal of the conversion should be carried out by a Chartered Structural Engineer engaged by the Vendor prior to the exchange of contracts

Essential there report outlines:

To the front of the roof, the trusses were configured in such a way that support to the rafters has not been compromised, however, to the rear, truss webs have been cut away and timber uprights functioning as rafter supports installed in their place which is an unsatisfactory arrangement. This has potentially significantly compromised the structural integrity of the roof. Timber beams spanning across the width of the dwelling provide support to a new floor.

As most of the works were covered at the time of the survey, a full appraisal of the conversion should be carried out by a Chartered Structural Engineer.

Any advice would be great.

Many thanks

Gumbo

Engage an engineer.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849863#Comment_119849863

Or ask the seller to provide the report being sought

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849893#Comment_119849893

+1

forgot the poster was buying.

Marty Bird

Sorry to hijack the thread I’ve a question about an attic conversion, family member recently got it done with planning for 2 windows to the front of the house and one at the gable side, during construction they decided not to do the gable window and put in small one beside the two in the front, I’ve told them that they would need to get planning permission again for that as it’s not the original permission. Am I correct in this ?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886758#Comment_119886758

You are correct.