Child called my 7 year old 'chubby'

houseyhouse

My daughter casually let drop this morning that a girl at school called her 'chubby'. She said it means her belly sticks out. Apparently this girl also showed my daughter her own belly as a demonstration of a not-chubby belly. My daughter is not overweight but she is not skinny either. I actually checked the growth charts just now to confirm this - she's tallish and her weight percentile matches her height.

My daughter has told me a couple of times recently that she thinks her belly 'sticks out too much' or 'is too wide'. I was wondering where this type of thinking was coming from and now I think I have my answer. I'm very careful not to criticise my own or other people's bodies and I've tried not to make a big deal of it when she says this, telling her bodies come in all shapes and sizes and that I think her body is perfect the way it is.

I'm really sad that my daughter's innocence around her body is lost - the lovely way that small children can just exist in their bodies without worrying if their bodies are 'right'. I want to do everything I can to protect her from negative body image. Somebody I was very close to suffered terribly with an eating disorder as a teen and it made a lasting impression on me so I want to be proactive about it. What should I be doing to help my daughter?

DeSelby83

We recently bought this book for our little boy who is 4 now to try and teach him that there are all sorts and shapes of bodies and all are 'cool'.

Not sure how useful it may be OP but its worth a look.

https://www.easons.com/bodies-are-cool-tyler-feder-9780241519936

There are two ways to come at this of course. And they are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to do both.

The first is - seemingly the one you are mostly going for - to teach that within certain "norms" there is no "perfect" body and we can enjoy and celebrate our bodies and their differences and we do not all have to be like everyone else. Unless we are erring towards some extreme of obesity or it's opposite - we can be proud of our bodies and their differences to everyone else's. That our happiness should come from our internal personal evaluation of ourselves - and not through comparison of ourselves to/with others.

The second option though - is acknowledge that we do have power to change some aspects of our shape and appearance - and there is also nothing wrong with wanting to improve or move closer towards some "ideal" we have for ourselves. If we feel we are a little "chubby" - while there is nothing wrong with that - there is also nothing wrong with saying "So I would prefer to work on this aspect of myself and change it". So it is possible - without negging a child's current shape - to teach them that they have the power of change in their hands - they can take ownership of this - and they can work to modify their body in healthy ways (as opposed to things like eating disorders) to move it towards their ideal.

So if a child comes home complaining they feel chubby and they are not happy with their belly - it is perfectly ok to say to them "There is nothing wrong with your shape - but if you genuinely do want to change it - then you can take ownership of that and work on it. So what are you going to do about it? And how can I help? Do you want some ideas on how to start?".

As a parent I can understand that this can make us nervous. That if we teach a child they can work on things like their body shape and change it - that we might be pushing them down a road towards eating disorders or obsessions. But such disorders are the exception not the norm so our fears and concerns should not prevent us doing the right things.

We can work on healthy eating. Portion control. Snacking. We can work on sports and exercise and activity. And we can do it in ways that bring pride and sense of achievement and slow but meaningful progress and patience and personal discipline and all kinds of other benefits into play.

While it is aimed more at boys than girls - but is just as beneficial to both - a book series that my daugther (now 11) enjoyed a lot is called "Way of the Warrior Kid" by Jokko Willink. It's not about body appearance but other aspects of how a child was unhappy in themselves and - under the guidance of his uncle - took ownership of it and worked on it. It's a book I have even given to adults who reported being positively moved by it and motivated to "do better".

In short though "body positivity" can mean a lot of things - but it should never mean merely accepting everything about how you are to the degree you make yourself blind to actual improvements you could make. Body positivity should be about being positive about everything our body is and everything it has the potential to be.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579681#Comment_118579681

Don't do this to a 7 year old. It's a post that actually celebrates putting pressure on a u year old to aspire to be different in their body shape. Its actually ridiculous and wrong. Dresses up as being positive BTW.

No one is suggesting putting pressure on anyone. Even less so to celebrate any such thing. You have read something into my post that is simply not there.

What I did say - is that if a child is already unhappy about something that they have the ability to change should they themselves wish to change it - then as parents we can make them aware of this fact and guide them on that journey.

We can make them aware that the power of change - and the power to take ownership of aspects of their selves - can lie in their hands. And we are parents can make ourselves available to guide them and support them in doing so.

This is the exact opposite of "pressuring" them to do anything. So do not project on to me something that is not actually there - thanks.

And I would not limit this to body shape. The same advice can be applied to many things a child might come home unhappy about. Maybe they do not run as fast as they want. They are not as strong as they want. Their balance is not as good as they want. They can't play a music instrument. Their football skills are not what they want. And more.

We can teach them to be happy with who they are. And we should. But not to the point of complacency. We can also teach them about their potential and how they can take ownership of pursuing those potentials. And that while we might never be as good as we want in some aspect of ourselves - there is still a continuum we can move on between where we are now and where we want to be.

Again - positivity is not exclusively about merely accepting who we are - but also about exploring our own personal potentials and limits. And we should derive our self worth and validation more from that personal journey - than from comparing ourselves to others.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579681#Comment_118579681

I agree that children should be empowered to work on their skills and abilities. I encourage my children to train for their sports and to practice their hobbies. I don’t want my children to feel passive in their lives. But the idea that a 7-year-old girl with a healthy body and weight should be encouraged to modify her body shape through diet and exercise for aesthetic reasons is appalling to me and, frankly, dangerous. I say this as somebody who had a front row seat in the life of an anorexic teenager. It was harrowing.

I don’t know if you’re a woman but we have a whole lifetime of being told our bodies are not ‘right’ for various reasons. I want to delay that for my daughters for as long as I can. My 10-year-old daughter was told she had a fat belly by a classmate even though she literally has a six pack. My 7 year old seems to have taken similar comments to heart.

Perhaps it wasn’t clear from my original post but my daughter is healthy and active, she eats well and her body weight is normal and healthy. As I said, her weight and height are similar percentiles - both slightly above average for her age. She does not have a fat belly. Her body is not the problem. I didn’t want to dwell on that too much in the opening post because I think she deserves to feel her body is acceptable regardless of whether it is actually chubby or not.

I don’t want to sound rude. I appreciate your overall point. But I am on high alert around body and eating issues because of the damage I have seen them cause. I think a child in first class should not be trying to change her (perfectly healthy, normal weight) body so it looks right to other people.

boardlady

This is a difficult one. I'm not sure where I lie to be honest. I agree, as a woman, that we should be allowed to exist in our own bodies without the endless dialogue about how imperfect we are. However, obesity is a huge (pardon the pun) issue and poor diet and lifestyle are on the increase. I do agree with Taxacruel that personal responsibility is important too. Telling someone who is very overweight that they are perfect and to celebrate it is not helpful either imo. However, at the age of 7, I think your daughter is too young for the whole 'in your power to change it' discussion. And, as you say, her height and weight are clinically perfect. Maybe just keep the dialogue open and discuss how different we all are and how labels are not the nicest way to notice our differences. That book sounds like a good idea. Best of luck with it. I only have boys but they suffer similar issues - not to the same extent though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580267#Comment_118580267

It is always fun to see people come in asking for opinions and advice - who then feel compelled to debate people who do so and tell them how wrong they are. :) At least some of them - who knows which ones - probably are not looking for advice at all but for people to validate the choices they have already actually made.

That said though - if it is appalling to you that someone should encourage a child to change - or to do so for aesthetic reasons - then you should absolutely find someone who did that and take it up with them. I did not do that. So I am not sure why you bring it up with me.

What I did do is point out that if a child is already unhappy about something in their own self - and it is something that they can take ownership of and change - they can be made aware of that fact. This is not encouraging them to do so. It is ensuring they know they themselves have the option to do so. And it is up to them to decide themselves if that is a route they want to take.

And we can make them aware of that fact _while also_ encouraging positive things such as internal locus of validation and evaluation over - for example - comparing oneself to others and suffering because we feel we do not match up to such external standards.

So it is absolutely possible, positive, and beneficial to encourage a healthy relationship with one's own body type and shape and genetics and all of that. To accept who you are and what you are. But acceptance of who and what you are does not necessarily mean 100% acceptance of who and what you are in that single moment alone. Rather it is finding your own potentials and limitations and moving within that space - while finding contentment within that space and by the fact you are confined to that space. Again - these things are not mutually exclusive.

The oft touted phrase based on that thinking is to "be the best version of yourself you can be". What that means is exploring your own potentials and limitations to be the best you can be - judged by the standards you set for yourself - and without suffering because you judge yourself by standards set external to yourself - such as am I as rich as that person, as slim as that person, as strong as that person.

As I started my first post saying - these two approaches are not mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite. They can be mutually beneficial and complementary.

No I am not a woman - and as men we experience similar in our own ways - but nothing I have said even remotely is telling anyone that their body is "not right" - or that anyone should change to "look right" to other people. I am saying the absolute exact opposite of that in fact in every word and in every paragraph.

Again - the sum total of my point here is that we can absolutely encourage body positivity in children and we should. But body positivity means more than merely accepting 100% everything about how you are in this minute at this time. If there is something you are personally not happy with - that's OK too. It is entirely OK to feel that way. When someone genuinely is unhappy with something - just how beneficial is it to poo poo their concerns and simply preach at them "You should just be happy as you are"? Doing that alone is unlikely to be helpful to anyone. Doing it as part of a holistic approach to personal positivity however - seems a better route for me. It is a move we can make not the move we should make.

For me at least - it means being positive about everything your body is and _can be_ and not to suffer because there are things it can not be or can not do that someone else can. My thinking in life and am passing on to all my children - is that we are born with one body and we can take ownership of finding out everything it can be and can do. And if there is something we personally are not happy with (contrast to whether someone else has commented on it or is not happy about it - they can just go F themselves really and mind their own business) that we can take ownership of - then that is a choice we should be aware of and a choice children can be made aware of.

So in your position what I would do - and this is a "take it or leave it" advice forum really where people generally are just telling you what they would do in the same situation so no one is "wrong" here - would be to tell my child not to give a crap what anyone else thinks about their body - encourage them to be happy about their own body - but also inform her about the potentials and options they have to explore the genetic hand they have been dealt and move within that space - and inform them that some things they (not anyone else, they themselves) might not feel happy with are within her power to take ownership of and explore and modify and change.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579681#Comment_118579681

"So if a child comes home complaining they feel chubby and they are not happy with their belly - it is perfectly ok to say to them "There is nothing wrong with your shape - but if you genuinely do want to change it - then you can take ownership of that and work on it. So what are you going to do about it? And how can I help? Do you want some ideas on how to start?"."

WTF?! You do realise that you are talking about a 7y/o they aren't "taking ownership" of anything, least of all their diet and exercise. That is the role of the parents. This child has a healthy weight anyway.

As for the OP, beyond reassuring your girl that she's ok, there really is little that can be realistically done as an individual to shield her from this poison sadly.

houseyhouse

I should have been clearer in my opening post. I want advice on helping my daughter to ignore the comments of this girl at school and be happy in her own body. I don’t want advice on helping my 7 year old lose weight. To be honest, it didn’t occur to me that anybody would even suggest that in relation to a normal-weight child.

I didn’t intend to say that you are generally wrong. I agree with a lot of what you say about being the best version of yourself. I tried to be appreciative of your comment, while also pointing out that some of what you say is dangerous.

Perhaps you don’t know much about eating disorders. I do. Anorexics are very unhappy with their own bodies, not just with how other people perceive them. They try to be the best version of themselves (which equates to skinniest for an anorexic) through extreme self control. They apply the principals you espouse but because their self image is so distorted it is disastrous. This is why I want to help my daughter have a positive self image. I watched anorexia destroy the body of someone I love. It is one of my greatest fears as a mother of girls. This is not entirely rational, I know, but we are shaped by our past experiences.

Is your child overweight?

Children are far more honest than adults.

Are you upset that your child is overweight and another child has picked up on it or, are you upset that another child is picking on your kid in general?

sweetie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580642#Comment_118580642

read the OP

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580642#Comment_118580642

Are you a WUM, or just can't read?

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580642#Comment_118580642

She is not overweight. I am upset that a child is making negative comments about her (perfectly normal, healthy) body. I don’t want her to develop hang ups about her body.

Teacher2020

Diet culture is a huge problem in this country. If you looked into the reasons that adults are obese a lot of it comes down to diet culture. Quite a number of obese people have eating disorders similar to anorexia or bulimia. There are psychological reasons why they overeat - similar to the way bulimics overeat. Restrictive diets only make those reasons worse. We should not EVER tell a child to restrict their portions in order to lose weight. We encourage them to have a healthy relationship with food; we don't make them finish what's on their plate, we tell them to eat when they are hungry, we don't give them food as treats (they aren't dogs),

fits

The posts in this thread are bonkers. About a 7 year old! Cop on to yourselves.

I don’t know what you should say to your daughter but I’d be saying no you aren’t remotely chubby and other children say funny things at times. Ignore them.

witchgirl26

OP I think having a chat to your 7 year old and saying how everyone has different body shapes & types & that there is no right one, is probably the best course of action. Point out to her that she's active & healthy & these are the most important things.

I have a round belly. I have had it my whole life no matter what size I am. No diet or exercise has ever changed the shape of my roundy-belly (I actually don't mind it at all so was never trying to get rid of it). My point is to that other poster that sometimes, no matter what you "take ownership of", your body shape doesn't change. I accepted as a 13 year old that my belly will always be round so instead of constantly trying to change it, I just went with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580703#Comment_118580703

Ah, got ya!

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580552#Comment_118580552

Kids are cruel. They'll say what they want, regardless of whether it's factually correct or not. As we all know. Plenty of kids will call someone fat when they're in fact the opposite. Obviously sometimes the comment will be cruel and true.

So I'd be telling your kid if she takes offence to something someone says to her then tell her to be equally cruel in her reply or if she thinks she's better than that then just ignore it. There's not much else she can do really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580552#Comment_118580552

Don't worry. Nothing I have suggested to you is remotely "dangerous". Perhaps some of the things you thought I was saying - which I patently was not saying - were dangerous. But since I did not say them I do not much care :)

What I am saying is that if a child finds something about themselves they are unhappy about - we can and should teach them to be happy in themselves - but we also can help them explore what things about themselves they have the power to change if they so feel like it - by their own choice.

What I am not saying is that we should be encouraging them to do so - telling them they should/must - or holding them up to external standards such as some "model" of what we think they "should" be like from a magazine or some such.

Eating Disorders are outliers thankfully. They are awful as you say. Both for the person themselves and those around them. But nothing I have said is even remotely related to eating disorders or is even remotely likely to cause one. As you say - your past experiences seem to have affected you greatly. You may (how would I know, just thinking out loud here) even have some level of remnant trauma from it which is coloring some of your reactions - and how you parse my "advice" here.

But all in all there is nothing wrong or dangerous in telling a kid "There is nothing wrong with your shape - nothing at all - but if you really do find it bothering you and you want to try and change it - this is in your power to do".

And I would say the same about nearly any issue bothering my kids. If my son comes home tomorrow and says "Daddy I am not as fast as the other boys" and he is upset by it - I will encourage him to be positive about what he is good at - what he can do - the genetic hand he has been dealt - and more. But then after all that I will also add for him "But if this is genuinely bothering you - you can take ownership of it and improve your speeds - and I can guide you on how to go about doing that - you may or may not get faster than the other boys but who cares about them really - you should not judge yourself by what other boys can do - but you very likely can be faster than the you that you are today - is that something you want us to work on, or are you happy to continue as you are now?".

And it would be entirely his choice to take that choice and own the situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580476#Comment_118580476

I see absolutely no reason to think a 7 year old is beyond having such a conversation. I am in an adult forum here talking with other adults. So I am wording it here differently than I would word it with a child of course. But the essence of the conversation is very much one that can be had with such a child. Unless all the 7 year olds I have experience of differ wildly from average magically somehow.

Absolutely reassure a child they are "ok" if they in fact are. That's great. No one suggested otherwise. But if a child is genuinely worried about some attribute - and that is an attribute that can be modified, even a little - the child can often very much be part of that conversation. How much a part - if at all - is for the individual parent of each individual child to decide as they know them better than us. But I see nothing magical about that age that automatically precludes it across the board. Children are often a lot more clued in and involved than some might give them credit for.

sekond

I had similar issues with my daughter, although she was a little older. Her closest friends barely came up to her shoulder, and were naturally small, fine-boned children. My daughter at the time was just at the start of puberty, tall, sporty and in no way overweight. But there were a lot of comparisons between the group of girls, which began to upset my daughter - particular comments around the size/shape of her legs. Other than taking the line that every body is different, we started focusing broadly on how wonderful bodies were - the strength in her legs, how much fast she already was than me, how well her she played her sport and how a strong body helped with that. It wasn't an overnight success, but it did help counter the discussion that seemed to be happening.

I also mentioned it to the class teacher. Not singling out any child in particular, or making too much of a drama. I just mentioned that there seemed to be a lot of talk about weight and size, and criticisms of certain body shapes/types. She kept an eye on it, did a few sessions on bullying/kindness/etc (which were probably already scheduled to be fair). It might be an idea to bring this up with your daughter's class teacher?

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580888#Comment_118580888

I would stay well clear of this advice.

Even if your daughter was unhappy with her body, which you have said she is not, telling her to do something about it in terms of diet would be dangerous imo. A seven year old cannot understand what's a reasonable amount of dieting to do, and it could lead to major issues later in her adolescence and long term.

^ For the third/fourth time that is not what I am saying. I at no point advocated "telling" anyone to do anything about anything. Not once.

What I did advocate for is letting a child know that they can be happy about certain aspects of themselves - but some attributes can be changed too - and if they are genuinely unhappy about it - they, with the support of the parent(s) - can take ownership of that and work towards change.

No one saying they should. Must. Have to. Being told to. None of that. I simply never said it.

If after all the positivity talks - and the post from sekond is a great example of that above - the child still says it is making them unhappy and that they want to do something about it if they can - I will be standing there ready to guide them in exploring the options on how they can do just that.

I have no advice I’m afraid OP, except do not do what taxAHcruel suggests. That is definitive proof there is absolutely such thing as a bad idea and a wrong answer.

The best I can say is just reinforce to your daughter that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with how she looks, everyone’s different, she’s beautiful the way she is etc etc

What the above is basically telling you to do is agree with her she’s “chubby” and god knows give her an eating disorder.. she’s 7 like.

edit; on the topic at hand though I would say, while it’s definitely something to follow up on if it becomes a problem, kids of that age don’t always mean to be mean. It might very well be they’re just pointing out things they see not necessarily trying to be a bully or that. Just playing devils advocate a bit. I mean my own 7 year old once told his uncle he was big and fat! Wasn’t trying to be “mean” he was just stating what he saw.

Teacher2020

"But all in all there is nothing wrong or dangerous in telling a kid "There is nothing wrong with your shape - nothing at all - but if you really do find it bothering you and you want to try and change it - this is in your power to do"."

It's dangerous on so many levels. It is introducing the concept of restricting food at a very young age. It is introducing the concept of introducing "good or bad" foods. It is introducing the concept of exercising to lose weight. It is introducing the concept that a smaller body is a better body.

seamus

"You are the master of your own destiny" is too complex really for a 7-year-old.

They do things either because they enjoy doing them, and/or because they're told it's a good thing to do.

There's a good example above about training for sports. You teach a child that if they want to be better at sport they need to practice. That without practice, they won't get better. And getting better is a good thing.

That's grand, because if they decide to ditch the sport then there's no big problem. They can move onto something else.

If you try to apply this to their body image, you're introducing a more complex problem - one that they can't escape.

If they don't put in the practice, or if they're not getting the results they want, they can't find a new hobby. But you have already taught them that manipulating their body shape to something else is a "good" thing.

So you introduce a negative feedback loop at a very early age where they hate their image because you have told them that it is fundamentally "bad" and/or they hate themselves for being unable to fix it when you said they could.

This is an issue grown adults have trouble sorting out. Do not place it on a 7-year-old.

Children need to learn that while there is an ideal when it comes to being in good health, that bodies come in all shapes and sizes and that only a few things can be made different. For girls especially, they will grow up and it will be of the utmost importance that they accept that they cannot make their hips wider, or their arse bigger, or their breasts fuller or perkier, or their jawline narrower or their nose smaller, and if they have a pot-belly shape, that they cannot realistically change that.

The lesson that "You can change your body if you put the work in", is step one towards a lifetime of self-loathing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580944#Comment_118580944

Your last paragraph could not be more different from what I am actually saying. I have no problem with people pushing back against any advice I might give. But try pushing back against what I actually said rather than taking the "So what you are saying is...." kind of move.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580952#Comment_118580952

It depends on the age. I am talking generally. Not about 7 year olds specifically. If we want to explore with a child how they can work on some attribute of themselves - we should certainly be exploring the options that are specifically age appropriate for them. Be they 5 15 or 25.

And no I am not suggesting whatsoever that "a smaller body is a better body". Nothing I said even remotely suggests that. Even a little. In fact my advice goes both ways. I would say generally the same thing to my child if they felt they were too small/weak/thin or not fast enough or not strong enough.

Which is simply once again: They can and should be happy with who and what they are - teach them how to avoid evaluation by comparison to others - but also that who and what they are is not some set in stone set of attributes - but a range and that they can very much take some things they are not happy with and improve them to their own standards.

There is nothing "dangerous" about that. I am also curious what is "dangerous" about concepts of "Good and bad foods" and excercise for example. You mention those concepts above as if they are somehow bad things. I am curious how/why.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580888#Comment_118580888

Giving a young child the tools to change their body for aesthetic reasons is not the same as encouraging them to practice sprints.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580976#Comment_118580976

lad why are you still trying to defend this shite stance of yours

it’s bad advice, why you won’t just accept that I’d love to know. You half ass admit that it’s bad advice for a 7 year old, but then go on to defend it some more. The thing is you gave the advice to the OP who’s child is 7.

It’s therefore bad advice. this isn’t the place to discuss the merits in kids who are older - which by the way doesn’t make it better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580984#Comment_118580984

I would too be wary about the issue of "aesthetic reasons". Which is why I never once suggested that as a reason.

What I have suggested is that if any person - including a child - is in and of themselves unhappy with a labile attribute - that we can support them in making their own choice to take ownership of that attribute and change it. This is a good thing.

But if their motivations to do so are problematic we should absolutely explore that with them too. The very first thing I said on the thread was that these two things are not mutually exclusive. I am happy to keep saying it over and over if it helps.

There are good and bad motivations to want to change ourselves. If we are miserable because we are constantly comparing ourselves to others - then that is likely unhealthy and problematic. If the child is coming home thinking they are fat because some other kid in the class has a slightly flatter profile than they do - then yes absolutely the child could do with some empathy and guidance here about finding positivity in their own selves without comparison to others or fear of the opinion of others. This is Prio 1 in my view.

I for one have worked quite hard to instill my own children with an "internal locus of evaluation". In that the goals and ideals they set for themselves are their own - and not predicated on external standards such as "is that person bigger/better/slimer/faster/stronger" than me and so on. My own philosophy - which I have worked hard to instill in them - is that the only person they should worry about being better than today - is the person they were yesterday.

But if after all that - the child with their own internal standards and ideals still sees something about themselves they are unhappy with - and it is within their power to make change to it and attain that change and feel achievement for that change - I will absolutely be guiding them on the path too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580992#Comment_118580992

Just calling something "bad advice" does not magically make it so. If there is something specific you want to address / rebut / question by all means do specifically. But the above post is just a throw away dismissal referring to nothing I have actually said.

But to correct you on one thing - whenever I answer any "advice" thread on this forum - anywhere on the forum - I always answer (willfully and intentionally) in a generalized way that is readable and accessible to all and is not limited solely to the person I am talking to. I deliberately phrase it / write it in this way. So I do not limit myself - in this case - just to talking about this sole 7 year old who I know next to nothing about.

That is what good advice is. Something general and accessible which we can read and take it or leave it. We either find something in it we can implement in our own lives - or we don't so we move on. Advice should be a set of ideas which can inspire us and make us think - not a set of mandates we should be expected to follow. From the first post I deliberately used the word "option" too. Because that is what it is. An option. I at no point suggest taking it - or not taking it - is "better" or "superior". It is an option any and all of us can consider - and take or leave. That is what parenting is. Considering all options before us - and choosing what we think is best for our particular child. And "advice" can and should be a source of options we might not have considered before that.

We can encourage positivity and self acceptance and happiness in children - while also empowering their choice to change if they genuinely want to change something. That is the option I take. No one else has to take it - nor do I suggest they would be better off if the do. But discussing what options are there - that is a good thing. Always has been. Always will be I suspect.

iguana

A year or so ago my son, then 8, started to think he was overweight and mentioned it repeatedly. I guess, because he tends to get a bigger belly right ahead of a growth spurt, which is pretty common in children. I told him plenty of times that he was definitely not overweight and probably about to get a little taller soon but he was still clearly worried about it. He loves maths, data, computers, etc so I measured him, let him weigh himself and showed him how to put the details into a child's BMI calculator and let him see that he was very easily in the healthy weight category. A few weeks later, I measured him again and he could see he had gotten a little taller. It was completely reassuring to him and he's never really mentioned it again.

I know plenty of people would think that's not a great way to deal with it but the reality is that eating to excess is also an eating disorder, one that is highly common and while not as immediately devastating as severe under eating, it can and does lead to long term health problems, reduced quality of life and reduced lifespan. Trying to avoid one potential health problem to the point that we avoid educating about another potential problem isn't the best plan. I was brought up to be happy and content in my body and I've always had a really healthy body image. But I also know how it's easy, maybe during stressful/busy parts of our lives to develop really bad habits that impact on our immediate and long term health. Especially in a society full of cheap, easily available, convenient nutritionally terrible foods. So it is good to have the beginnings of an understanding about our bodies from the point where we have started to become aware. Children can't be expected to have any control of their diet, they are too young and it's our job to deal with that. But at seven an understanding that some foods really are better than others, that some are good as regular treats and others need to be enjoyed in moderation is something that they are learning in school during weeks like 'Food Dudes' so it's not a bad idea to teach the same things at home.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118580888#Comment_118580888

Despite the fact that you gave a literal quote of what you would say to this child, we will go along with your contention that you would have this conversation in an age appropriate way - whatever form that would take. Let's start to think then about the actions and outcomes of such a conversation.

A child of seven is completely dependent on the adults around them, has no agency of their own and is highly impressionable. Children that age eat what their given by the adults, and exercise when brought to play by the adults. So telling them that they can make changes will result in what? It at a minimum result in anxiety, since they will be worried about something they don't control. If they go further down that road it will result in refusing food as that is the only action open to them. They will hide school lunches and will not eat the meals made for them. If that continues to teenage years and you'll have purging and over exercise. That doesn't always happen of course, but it can.

It's is parents responsibility to protect children from these worries, not to add to them. Treating and talking to children like they are adults is not in their interest. Children can be clued in, but they are still children, something often forgotten these days. If a child is overweight or unfit it is completely the fault of the parents and no one else especially not the child.

Eating disorders, if you've ever experienced them in your family (and it seems likely that you haven't, given your "advice") are mentally destructive to the child and completely corrosive for the adults relationships around them. If ever there was a wolf to keep from the door...

freshpopcorn

I'd also nearly suggest talking to the teacher about this.

The teacher can have a general chat about healthy issues and people being different.

She can also watch out for the girl that made the comment.

She could really cause a lot of issues for people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118581236#Comment_118581236

A thoughtful response, thank you.

" literal quote"

Not a literal quote no. As I said already I am in a forum for adults talking with adults. So I am discussing what I would essentially say to the child - but phrasing it in a general way for the people I am currently talking to here in the forum(adults). The words that would come literally out of my mouth while talking to any of my children - would of course be tailored to them specifically.

"So telling them that they can make changes will result in what?"

I believe in giving my own children autonomy where possible - and where that is not possible, giving them a good illusion or approximation of autonomy. You are entirely right that quite often (but not always) what a child eats and when they exercise is under our guidance. Not always though for sure. For example my kids meet other kids for excercise and play. Not just "when brought by adults".

But ultimately yes I agree with your point - the child is often a passive player in the choices we put upon them.

So to answer your question specifically about what would happen next and what the results would be. The first result would be they would have the choice about whether "X" (whatever attribute it is in play) is something they want to work on. Perhaps then much of the choices supporting that (such as modification of diet) will fall upon that child's adults to implement. But for me the point would be that the child here has made choices - was made part of the conversation - and had as much autonomy in the whole thing as possible.

In other words - if as an adult I am concerned with some attribute like body weight it is my job to modify the food I am giving my child among other things. However what I have been saying on this thread so far is not about that. It is about a child who has - themselves - focused on an attribute that I think is currently perfectly fine but they have developed as a source of self doubt, depression, anxiety, inferiority or some other negative emotion all the same.

In that situation I see my job as a parent to Prio 1 undermine the negative and erroneous sources of that negative emotion. Promote body positivity, self confidence, internal locus of evaluation, and other positive sources of personal validation and self worth and confidence and acceptance and self empathy.

All great stuff and is pretty much what everyone else on the thread is also saying.

What I am adding to that is just one extra option on the table on top of all the other stuff. Which is that if the child still finds that attribute as a source of negativity - and it is an attribute that is potentially labile (as opposed to something that can not be changed easily or at all, like height or skin color or whatever) - then a useful and healthy conversation can be had with a child to that effect too. And the child can be very much made to feel an active and participating part of that conversation. To what degree is of course age and individuality dependent. But I see nothing about the number "7" specifically that magically precludes it in and of itself.

And it can be done in a way that does not at all suggest some of the concerns for outcomes you list in your second paragraph. Let alone to eating disorders. But that is nothing new and nothing specific to this conversation or this thread topic. In many things there is a right way and a wrong way to implement or discuss them with a child. That something can be discussed or implemented badly or in a harmful way - does not mean that that thing itself is bad or harmful. Many many things fit that fact in parenting our children.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118581340#Comment_118581340

Just out of interest, where would you draw the line. The advice was asked about a 7 year old who has a perfectly healthy weight and just has a different body shape to her friend. So you suggest a possible solution along side reassuring them there is nothing wrong, is to also tell them its in their power to change.

But is this always true? If the same child had come home saying a child had told them their nose was too big would you offer the same 2 step advice? Does the power to change oneself include possible cosmetic surgery?

Why is acceptable to tell a child if they want they can change their perfectly healthy and natural body shape?

ElizaBennett

I really like iguana's approach of teaching their son, who's into maths and stats, how to check his bmi as a reassurance that he's healthy. This is also a means to demonstrate that the healthy range is actually something very broad and not narrow, which helps illustrate that positive message that we're all different and don't need to worry about being exactly the same. Great idea.

I also agree with those recommending a word to the teacher. He or she can keep an eye on things and talk generally to the class about kindness and the importance of politeness and not commenting on others ' appearance. That's what it boils down to. Whether or not anyone in the class has a big belly is of no relevance to others and it should be made clear that unasked for feedback re physical appearance is not ok.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118581522#Comment_118581522

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Not to dodge your question but I tend not to "draw lines" - even in theory. Much like the old phrase "all things being equal" - when in fact they never are - context and situation dictate everything.

To answer your question about "is this always true?" however - I think I already addressed that in the post you are replying to. If you would be so kind as to re-read the first half of the second last paragraph. If they reach age 18/21 and wish to seek surgery that is on them as an adult to decide.

I would reverse your last question however. Why would it not be acceptable to do so? "healthy and natural" is not a fixed target like a bullseye on a board that you either hit it or miss it. Rather it is a continuum along which we can move.

I certainly explore moving on that continuum with my children in an age appropriate and - above all - fun way. Any attribute they have that is healthy and good is not simply ignored if it can be improved on even more. My children train jujitsu and capoeira and meditation and running and more. Have been since age 3. They are perfectly "healthy and natural" children but they are also aware how they can further better themselves. Stronger or fitter or faster or more balanced or more flexible or or or or or. And they truly love it.

I like to teach them not to compare themselves to others or hold themselves to external standards. Rather the only person they should be in competition with today - is the version of them from yesterday. And they love going to bed at night telling me how they kicked yesterdays ass. Some new goal reached - or new knowledge learned or or or.

And I also teach them that even when you are a perfectly healthy and natural shape - it still takes some level of work and discipline in life to maintain that too. Complacency of noting one is prefectly fine so one does not have to do anything at all is not really something I would promote in my own kids. I liked to teach them that even those of us dealt a completely lucky hand in life - have the responsibility to maintain that too.

And when it comes to things like food I have been focused on making them as informed and as involved as possible. They help me grow food and catch and choose food. They help me cook food. We discuss food often and what is good and bad and healthy and "junk". What food is good for health and what food is good just for pleasure but not nutrition and so on. And that there is nothing wrong with "pleasure food" so long as it is treated with respect and moderation. They have a very healthy relationship with food in fact which I am very happy with given my own love for food and cooking which has become quite an obsessive hobby over the last decade :)

starbaby2003

I have to wonder if you are projecting your own feelings about weight on to your child. She appears to be saying things but not upset by them. Kids say stuff X is tall, Y has curly hair. They often don’t mean it in a negative way (I know some do, but the majority don’t). The first thing I would ask her is how did it make her feel when the other girl said that about her belly. My girls (slightly younger/ slightly older than yours) say it to each other all the time and they are like pull throughs for rifles, so they just think it’s a mean thing to say without understanding why (TV, I guess). Depending on her response I would as others have said talk about different shapes and how boring it would be if we all looked the same. I am going to go against the grain here and suggest you read something about empowering your daughter and not passing on hang ups. For your daughter make sure she reads lots about strong female characters, the rebel girl books are brilliant. Women who changed the world. There is no waist size mentioned in those 😀.

_Kaiser_

To be fair to TaxAH, all he is suggesting is that people have the ability to do something about things that they are not happy about if they want to. That's not saying they HAVE to, but that they do have that element of control over their own situation (with parental support and guidance obviously in this case).

There is too much of this "you're fine the way you are" stuff creeping into modern society, even when it's patently clear that it's not true or indeed healthy. I'm not at all saying this is the case for the OP's daughter, but there is no harm in occasionally taking a step back and looking at situations with a critical/objective eye either.

It's natural as parents to want to protect our children from everything, including negative comments/perceptions from others, but there's a line between that and being overprotective as well. Giving children coping skills and the ability to properly handle negativity is just as important as reinforcing their self-image.

Gant21

The Supermac’s and Macdonald’s have a lot to answer to.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595864#Comment_118595864

You’re right she didn’t seem bothered when she told me about that comment in particular. But she is generally very sensitive to criticism (something we’re working on all the time) and I want to be proactive about avoiding body hang ups. I was just looking for ideas on building a positive body image in case there are more of these types of comments and it becomes a thing.

I know kids say lots of things without thinking but this other child does seem a bit mean. She has a history of purposefully excluding various kids and she has made negative comments about my daughter’s clothes before. She has no other friends at the moment and my girl has been going out of her way to include her.

I will look at books about empowering girls. Do you have any recommendations about particular books? We are definitely into strong female characters in this house but that’s an area to double down on too. Will look at the rebel girls books.

starbaby2003

Oh I hear you, it’s so difficult being a parent and balancing things I struggle with it all the time. That other girl does not sound nice. Tbh, to tackle that I would ask your daughter how she feels in her company. I would reiterate that not everyone will be friends and that’s ok. We should only spend time with people who we feel happy with. I don’t have a specific book, sorry but I would say watch your language. We use you are so clever to think of that. That dress is pretty not that dress makes you look pretty. She dyed her hair because she liked how it made her feel. These are just some tips I’ve gotten off very strong women in my life and has helped me to try and get my daughters thinking of their achievements instead of how they look. It’s not perfect but I think it helps.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596434#Comment_118596434

On the subject of building up resilience against criticism - I think one way I have done that as a parent is to learn to not only embrace but enjoy failure with my children. As parents we are often very good at heaping on praise for success and progress and achievements. What we sometimes do not do as parents is learn to enjoy failure - laugh about it and share it - build on it and acknowledge it - congratulate for making attempts, even failed attempts, and much more. I try to make failure and things like failure as much an enjoyable part of life as success and achievement. And a knock on effect of this is indeed a strong resilience against criticisms too.

As for strong female characters - I would certainly recommend the Serafina books by Robert Beaty. The lead character is a very strong female lead character. I would advise reading the book yourself first as it is a tiny bit scary and graphic. So it would be your call if your 7 year old is ready for it or not. My own daughter was 7 when we first read/heard it. And the woman who does the audio book version was really good at it (to my shame her name escapes me as I read this).

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593555#Comment_118593555

I would just worry when you state categorically that if you are unhappy with certain things physically that its within your ability to change them. This is not always true - everybodys body shape is different. I might have wider hips than my friend, and no amount of healthy diet and exercise will change that fact. Yes I may lose weight and they may reduce in size, but proportionally on my body they will always be wider than someone elses. Similarly, one person might have a much more defined waist naturally, and the other be much more straight up and down. And I agree with you its important to instill the idea that they should not compare themselves to others, but where else does the idea that a smaller stomach is better for them and what they want.

Its these reasons I think speaking of changing the physical attributes in the same way as improving your sports ability, or school work are quite different.

It is obviously different for a child who is overweight, but I still think that focusing on the physical is the wrong way to go. As a parent you are in charge of the food - change things up. As a family get more active. Make it part of every day life rather than singling out that your child has an issue they have to change.

I have awful body image from being made aware of things like that when I was very young. I was "bigger" than other girls in my class but looking back I was just waiting a growth spurt and was perfectly healthy and fine. But that started a life time of dieting, comparing myself to others and having a generally awful relationship with food and my body. I know it was not my mothers intention when she suggested I join Weight Watchers with her at 10, she was trying to help her daughter who had noticed a difference - but both of us looking back wish it had been different.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598599#Comment_118598599

But I did not state it categorically. Quite the opposite. I very clearly - at least 2 or 3 times - made it clear I was differentiating between things we can change and those we can not. And that I would of course treat one very different to the other. So it seems the main locus of disagreement you have with my posts is focused on something I have never actually done or said?

That is something I think we as parents have to evaluate. While we are instilling all the good things like body positivity and self acceptance and self empathy - we as parents can also attempt to gauge our child's ability to change certain things about themselves. And if we feel that there is potential there then after we install all that good thinking we can then further say to the child "But look - if thing is really still bothering you - we could work on it all the same - and if that is something you would be interested in doing we can talk about the ways to do that".

But yes some attributes simply can not be changed. By anyone. Some can be changed by some - but the next individual might not be able to. That is why "advice" on forums like this one should be seen more like "options". And as parents we of course have to evaluate all the options and pick the one(s) that fit our individual situation, individual philosophies, and individual child and their capabilities and circumstances.

While I am as you say "in charge of food" as a parent - among many other things that I essentially control - I do not tend to do those kind of things from on high like a deity. I try to involve my children as much as possible in the decisions and the execution and the conversation. As I said before - I try to give children as much autonomy and control as possible. When it is not possible - I still try to give them as much of an illusion of autonomy and control as I can too. Random example would be if you look at my post history on how I get my kids to brush and care for their teeth. It is somewhat different to how I have personally seen any other parent do it.

But I think once again when you write something like "singling out that your child has an issue they have to change" that you are misreading a lot of what I am writing and saying. Because that quote is describing the exact opposite of anything I have so far said and promoted on this thread. Certainly your personal experience as you describe it in the last paragraph is very different to anything I have done or would do with my own children. And it is a shame you had to go through that - and have had to work to rise above it and defeat it.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231123/child-called-my-7-year-old-chubby

What should I be doing to help my daughter?

You’re doing everything already by being careful not to criticise other peoples bodies or your own and trying not to make a big deal of it when she says it, telling her bodies come in all shapes and sizes.

I’d have just pointed out that what the other child did and said was just rude and inappropriate. I’d make sure your daughter understands that she has nothing to feel bad about.

I know it’s difficult as you’re thinking about your daughter, but I wouldn’t be entertaining the thoughts of what another child said and whether or not I should be checking my child’s weight and height on growth charts. I’m guessing that’s not something you do in front of your daughter anyway, I mean just for yourself and your own sanity!

houseyhouse

Thanks. I don’t normally check growth charts. I only mentioned that because I knew there would be some who would think that she must really be overweight and I just couldn’t see it.

She seems to have moved on completely. No mention of it since then and she’s been in great form so, fingers crossed, it won’t become an issue. I’m grateful for all the comments and I’ll be prepared if it does come up again.

KrazyKMM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629668#Comment_118629668

I am not sure if anyone mentioned this, but so many kids that I know end up getting a growth spurt and their weight seems to get redistributed. Maybe her body is just getting ready for a growth spurt. Sounds like she has forgotten about the issue. I hope it doesn't happen again.