Suckler Cows not going in calf

Farm365

I have a small herd of Suckler cows which I scanned recently but only 8 out of 15 are in calf. I’ve had issues over the last few years so I switched from AI to a bull this year thinking the timing of the AI was the problem. I got some cows blood tested last year and they showed up low in Selenium so I put Selenium tablets in the water. There is no pattern to the cows that are not in calf some are heifers some second and third Calvers etc. The bull was out for 10wks but the cows were housed for 4-5wks of that. The bull was out with the cows by day and in on a straw bed on his own by night. The Vet said that any of the cows that were in calf were early so I’m wondering if housing them had an effect?

The cows and heifers were in good condition going to the bull. They are a mixture of WH,LM,CH and SIM and most were bought as calves and bucket reared. Some of the heifers would have been calving at 24mths but most at 30mths. We used to milk cows here approx 20yrs ago and I can remember my dad having problems getting cows in calf too but at the time I put it down to breeding.

I also have a flock of 200 ewes who never scan more than 1.4 despite changes to nutrition, flushing, bolus, teasers and more prolific breeds such as Mule and Belclare. The empty rate is always around 5% which is fine but no matter what I do I can’t get the scan over 1.4.

Has anyone being in this situation? Any advice?

My plan is to blood test the cows and sheep and test the grass and soil for trace elements.

Base price

First thing I think of from reading your post is what age was the bull when you let him out with the cows and why did you have to house on a straw bed a night.

Easten

Leave the Bull with them constant. A lot of Sucklers are only coming into Season for an hour and often it's at night or very early in the morning. 10 weeks isn't long enough if you want to guarantee them all in calf. Cows can have many issues from hard calving, retained plasenta, poor condition etc and may not come into season. Often it could be late in the year before some of them go back in calf so you end up with a late calfing but at least they are in calf.

Farm365

Bull was 3yrs old. I only put him on a straw bed at night when the cows were housed as the cows were in a cubicle shed.

patsy_mccabe

• You need to leave the bull full time with them.
• First calved Heifers take longer than mature cows to come bulling, maybe 3 weeks on average longer.
• You could bolus the cows too. My vet advised to give the boluses 6 weeks before calving, as they are effective for 6 months.
• Don't mind the experts saying to take out the bull early. Ask them what to do when 1/2 are not in calf and see what they say.
• Long term, cut late calving cows , a few every year and try to breed fertility into the herd with fertile bulls. You might need to use AI for this.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231032/suckler-cows-not-going-in-calf

I found with sheep, I improved lambing percentage by keeping early ewe lambs born twin or trip with a ram lamb. Also a good vitamin drench when flushing 2 weeks before introducing the ram

tanko

Maybe the bull was fertile early on and became infertile later, might be worth getting him fertility tested. I’d start with him.

Did you see them being bulled?

The lepto vaccine helps a lot

Farm365

No the only ones I saw being bulled are some of the ones that are in calf. I haven’t seen any bulling since I took out the bull either which is surprising given that half are not in calf.

How does the Lepto vaccine help with fertility?

whelan2

If the cows have lepto they will find it hard to go in calf. Did whoever scanned them say anything about the ones not in calf are they cycling?

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575135#Comment_118575135

When they were scanned, did the vet/tech say if they were clean inside?

Farm365 sadly we all get episodes like this, I think you’re right with blooding the cows (I’d do a portion of incalf & not plus soil samples. When you know what your issue is you can plan how to fix it.

Mooooo

A lot of activity would happen early morning, 4 to 5 am so the 4 weeks where the bull wasn't with them at that time could have missed some. Breeding stock should be on a rising plane of nutrition if at all possible so diet should be as consistent as possible thru breeding and a number of weeks post breeding

ABitofsense

Check for IBR too. That messed up my AI last year few cows slipped out by 2mths and few never held at all which I had to cull. Had good few false heats too.

We never had it before so no need to vaccinate but now doing for that & Lepto.

There are mineral drenches and blouses that help fertility as well. I used them on 5 or 6 heifers that will be having a second calf this year.

Will be interesting to see if they work.

https://www.agridirect.ie/product/growvite-forte

patsy_mccabe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576069#Comment_118576069

How do they check for IBR, by the way?

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577115#Comment_118577115

Vet took bloods from a selection of the cows & heifers. Some I knew that repeated & couple I thought hadn't. Did 6 in total. At the time I'd no idea what was wrong so checked for minerals in one sample & Lepto & IBR in another sample. IBR showed in only some of them interestingly. I vaccinated all & had to wait about 2 weeks before starting AI again so my calving is spread out a bit this year & I'm back on numbers too as I had to cull empties.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577399#Comment_118577399

Do you buy in replacements or breed your own?

Finty Lemon

Trace mineral issues tend to be over-diagnosed in a lot of these cases. Lads reach for the drench/bolus 'just in case' but at big expense to themselves. Where minerals are a problem for fertility, it is often a phosphorus issue. Boluses and drenches will do nothing for this so you can end up buying minerals but not the right ones.

If you want to test for a potential mineral problem at breeding you should do so 4 or 5 weeks pre-breeding. Test results from samples later in the year when cows show up empty may not relate well at all to the status of the cow around breeding. So test in April.

It is not right to be speculating without the full facts for the OP, but it does sound a bit like bull fertility or bull management may have been the issue.

Lepto is a good shout too and well worth covering with vaccine.

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577469#Comment_118577469

Pretty much a closed herd, aim to breed my own. I've only bought in a couple of pedigree limousin at the time but they were negative for it & would have being vaccinated too. I was convinced it may be one of them. My vet was very surprised I had it.