How to handle helpless tenants

notAMember

Any advice on this?

A small apt in the city, had a great set of tenants in there, one of them moved out, replaced with another person, I let the remaining choose the person they live with. Mid 30’s.

My other original tenant moved out due to job moving, and now I am left with someone who seems to need a mammy. Over the past three years has texted me for light bulb changes, hoover not working (the bag hadn’t been emptied) , shower drain clogged (with their own hair) , they left immersion on for 4 months straight and burnt out an element in hot water tank.

Latest one at the moment is that the dishwasher isn’t working. I asked them to check power and water pipe. They said they did, then I asked for a photo, said they never checked it and can’t because they have a sore leg.

How do I phrase that they need to do some basic checks themselves? Can I charge them for a call out handyman to go in and check this?

MuttonDagger

This is going to be good.

Wanderer78

you maybe dealing with someone that has complex needs, they may have complex psychological issues occurring, if this is the case, this wont be easy to deal with.....

Jequ0n

Ask the other tenants to help this one with the basic requests.

Feenix

Call her up and say "you need to do some basic checks yourself".

Ray Palmer

I had a tenant like that and it gets old really quickly. If you have put up with them for 3 years it doesn't sound like that much hassle. Simply say if you unnecessarily have to go there you will charge them a call out fee. Give them a list of what you will not be doing, like changing a light bulb.

You are then in a situation where they might not contact you over something serious but as there are other tenants the risk is low.

I used to get regular calls from a tenant that would "lose" his keys when out so the calls were late at night. After the third time of going down and said I wouldn't come down again and he would have to wait till the morning. He rang a fourth time and I told I would not come down till 10 am. He broke down the door, his keys were in his pocket each and every time including this time. Just too drunk to find them

whomitconcerns

Tell them they they are in breach for not keeping things as provided or in full working order and you will have too issue a formal warning if it keeps happening

o1s1n

I recently had a tenant try to change a set of lightbulbs and accidentally rip the chandelier out of the ceiling. No joke.

It's quite amazing the things some people can feck up when trying to do very minor maintenance!

Teacher2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564070#Comment_118564070

Are they in breach though? Those things mentioned could easily come under wear and tear. The landlord is responsible for normal wear and tear damage. Very hard to prove that the immersion was left on constantly for 4 months. They may be a bit stupid when it comes to not emptying the hoover bag and not unclogging a drain but again it is hard to prove that they knew what the issue was.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563618#Comment_118563618

They live alone there now...

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564120#Comment_118564120

Well that's the thing isn't it. Am I responsible for sending in a handyman every time they can't change a lightbulb, or do a basic check on an appliance that amounts to "is it turned on"? They are the only remaining tenant for the last 6 months, I don't live nearby at the moment and it's been something minor every month. A handyman callout is 100-200 euros, depending on when it is.

The immersion, their bill was through the roof, and when the plumber asked them how long they had the immersion on for, they said they had never seen it before and didn't know what it was. It is in the household manual I provided. I will say in their defense, that they are not Irish, English isn't their first language, which also doesn't help.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564095#Comment_118564095

With different fittings and adaptors floating around I can think of twice in the last few years me or a mate needed tools to change a lightbulb without risking ripping something out. We're both confident enough to hit the circuit breaker and do that kind of thing but I can understand why someone wouldn't be comfortable in those specific circumstances.

To the OP, there's the way things are and the way things should be. You can mostly affect the way things are in the future. The way they should be never changes.

Maybe take a half hour (won't even take that long) and show them a few things and what to check in future. It's not ideal, and you shouldn't have to do it but choose the path that'll be least hassle and least bad outcome

Teacher2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564320#Comment_118564320

Yes I would say you are responsible. It's not an ideal situation but as you don't live nearby then you will have to pay someone to do it. On a positive note at least they sound like they want to keep the property in nice condition. They are obviously using the hoover and cleaning the dishes so I imagine they are keeping the house clean. I've witnessed many properties left in an awful state due to lack of cleanliness. A few hundred a year spent on a handyman is cheaper than replacing carpets etc. when tenants move out.

o1s1n

Not sure if you've ever thought of using a letting agency but any time there's an issue like this, tenant contacts my agency, my agency then contacts me wondering if they can send someone in, I give the thumbs up and everything is taken care of. Really handy tbh.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564483#Comment_118564483

Your letting agent cleans hair out of a shower drain and changes the tenants lightbulbs?

What do they charge for that service?

Flinty997

This is not normal, and its not normal wear and tear.

Mrs OBumble

You really should have a thermostat fitted to the hot water heater.

Wildly Boaring

My mother has had the immersion on for 30 years.

Can't see how it "burns out" unless they've the hot tap on too for 4 months.

But the the hoover bag is ridiculous.

Send them the bill for attendance for it?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564515#Comment_118564515

Hah! I was more talking in line with the poster who quoted me concerning difficult to reach lightbulbs etc.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564557#Comment_118564557

It’d have to either be written in the lease that there’s a fallout fee for services, or you inform them in advance. You can’t say nothing, show up, then send a bill.

Water heaters are designed to be left on constantly. If the element is gone, that’s building maintenance issue.

Changing hoover bags, emptying dishwasher filters is day to day cleaning / normal housework that we so do, and you just need to make it clear that’s not your responsibility.

Explain how to do this and leave the instruction book and that’s as far as I would go.

As far as I am aware, changing light bulbs would be considered normal housework. Changing a faulty fitting would be a landlord issue. The bulbs are consumables.

You’re renting a house, not running self catering accommodation or a hotel.

josip

How many tenants does it take to change a light bulb?

None, it's the landlord's job.

😃

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564532#Comment_118564532

I had it removed completely. Hot water heats like an electric shower now instead.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564578#Comment_118564578

That's what I'm asking. Has anyone had something written in a lease, to specify what's day to day expected items, because honestly, in the 30 years of renting places out I've never prepared a list of exhaustive items where there are responsibilities listed like - tenants responsibility = changing lightbulbs.

Has any landlord here seen a lease that would cover that and could share the wording?

Happy to accept that this generations tenants need more explicit wording if that's the way things are going, but what's the expectation?

cruizer101

For the dishwasher when you say check the power and water pipe what exactly do you mean.

To me both of those involve pulling out the dishwasher from under the counter to get access to plug and water fittings which is a bit beyond what would be standard for a tenant to do, what if they pull it out but catch the water supply and end up flooding the place.

Some of the other items I would expect tenant to do.

Immersion should be able to be left on all the time, its an Irish obsession to turn it off but no reason it shouldn't work fine being left on, her bills might be high but thats on her, and tbh with newer well insulated tanks you don't actually loose too much heat anyway.

notAMember

"For the dishwasher when you say check the power and water pipe what exactly do you mean."

Does a light come on the front... is there power to it. Have you tried switching it off and on again. You know, the basics?

Under the sink is the pipework feeding the dishwasher, it's not behind a panel, it's possibly behind their own cleaning supplies. I asked them to take a photo of that so I could see if the valve was in the "on" position, or "off" position. This was beyond their abilities. They said they have never used the dishwasher, so couldn't say when it last worked.

Flinty997

Things have service life. Even a heating element. They don't last forever. An anecdotal story of something that has exceeded it's normal service life doesn't mean they will all do that.

It's not unusual for a failed heating element to be so difficult to remove that the cylinder is damaged in the process requiring its replacement as well.

It's beyond normal wear and tear to use it like that. This is why they have thermostats and timers for them.

josip

Fair play to you op for sticking with the 3rd person plural so fastidiously.

tnegun

So many people like this out there. In my brief stint as a landlord I had a tenant like this I was once called up for a small leak under the sink. They described it as coming from the white pipes so I was happy enough it was the waste. I told them to be careful using the sink and to stick a pot under it and I'd sort it in a week or two. Anyway I did get out about a week later and the kitchen was wrecked. The waste pipe had completely come off the sink weeks if not months earlier and the water was going under and behind the units and soaking into the chipboard. To make it worse when the small pan they had catching the leak filled you can guess whats coming they poured it down the same sink!! The 600 deposit didn't do much to replace the kitchen but it did convince me to get out of the landlord game.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565045#Comment_118565045

Thanks, English is my first language, so it comes quite naturally. Useful to protect people's privacy.. Ireland is small.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565149#Comment_118565149

God almighty. Hard to make things foolproof as they say... they keep building better fools.

Ash.J.Williams

now that i'm thinking of it, if you tell the tennant to do it themselves and they are that useless it could end up a catastrophe

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565392#Comment_118565392

There are limited a Landlord is not house keeping you get in a hotel.

Flinty997

Dublin’s Immersion Heater repairs and fits immersions all over Ireland (they must be fierce busy).

They shared the following wisdom with us.

“The main problem with leaving an immersion on constantly is that the immersion thermostat will be constantly switching on and off. After so many hours the thermostat will give up, causing one of two problems.”

“Problem one is that the immersion will not work. At all.

“Problem two is that the immersion will stay on causing the water in the immersion cylinder to boil. When the water boils the cylinder will make loud noises and push the boiling water into the cold tank in the attic. The water coming out of the cold tap will also be boiling.”

FYI

spaceHopper

A friend of my wife's was like this, nothing wrong with her just her parents did everything for her. 

Bulb went in her room, borrowed a lamp from her flat mate because she didn't know how to change it.

She used to go home can come back with frozen care packs. 

It was her first time living away from home so she was always out. Eating crap food and drinking, she got scurvy - at least she had the sense to go to the Dr when she wasn't feeling great.

If it's a normal bulb I would tell them to DIY, I could forgive the recessed light as they are a bit harder to do.

The most frequent search term on youtube is "how to ....." tell your tenant to lookup a youtube video and if they are still struggle you will be over in a day or so. Saying that may Mum had a tenant who tried to unblock the shower/bath drain with screwdriver. Then flooded the flat below his. He was white as sheet when I say him and the handy man was giving him a whiskey to steady his nerves, we forgave him!

What is it with Irish people and the obsession with 'the immersion'. Every other country I've ever lived in and in my own house in Ireland, you 'set and forget' the water heating and it just works away in the background and you pay attention to it about once every few years.

It seems in Ireland half the country lives in terrible fear of switching on some bizarre contraption that heats the water in a large, uninsulated cylinder, or they seem to have to keep babysitting the hot water tank for various weird reasons.

Seriously! Can we not get proper water heaters at this stage? It's not 1937.

Hontou

OP. I have also been renting property for over 25 years. In the 1990's and 2000's I barely got a call from tenants, but during the last 7 years, I have been getting non stop calls about ridiculous things. Drains blocked with own hairs, vacuum cleaner bags not changed, light bulbs in spot lighting, etc. I now cut the grass for tenants because they seemed to break the mower every second time they used it - yet it never broke for me. I service the boilers regularly and replace furniture and flooring etc between rentals so the properties are kept well. Has people's sense of responsibility changed? This "helpless" tenant behaviour has caused me to serve notice and sell one property recently and I am planning on doing the same for my remaining rental property. I can cope with all the nonsense regulations and taxation but not helpless, yet very entitled tenants. My advice is........serve notice and sell. It is no longer an investment, it's just a risk.

Deeec

This is why I think every tenant should have to do a day course on how to care and maintain a property - they should have to present a renting licence to the landlord when viewing a property. Some people have never had to take responsibility for a house - I include basic maintainence and cleaning in this.

Ive had a tenent that flushed food waste down the toilet and thought it was acceptable to hoover once a month. They also let the oil run out constantly and wonder why the heating is not working - we have to then go round and sort it out. This has happened 4 times - they never seem to get the message.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563581#Comment_118563581

That's not the OPs problem and certainly does not give them a free pass. In fact, if I suspected this was the case, I would be telling them in no uncertain terms the boundary between landlord and tenant.

Gant21

The more you do for some people the less they will do for themselves.

Jmc25

Sounds like you could certainly have better tenants. These current ones obviously don't have much experience in basic maintenance, but at the same time, that's something that usually comes with owning a property yourself - out of absolute necessity rather than a want to learn.

Difficult situation to manage though, I mean the lease likely doesn't specify what types of basic maintenance the tenant should be able to carry out themselves.

Two roads to go down I guess, as someone mentioned you could call over and give some basic DIY tutorials or you could threaten to charge them call out fees (for professionals, you can't charge for your own time).

I'd always try the softer route first and only go the abrasive route after everything else has failed.