Parking fine Cruagh Road

xabi_a

I did a walk with a few friends last Sunday starting from Cruagh Woods car park. The car park was jam full but I parked on the road, along with about 30 other cars.

Today I just got a fixed charge parking fine for parking there. "Parking In A Manner That Obstructed Other Traffic". There was plenty room for two cars to pass each other even with all the cars parked along the road. No double yellow lines, no clearway.

Has this happened anyone else? Is it really illegal to park on a country road like that?

macrubicon

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1483770208993034242

Not that it's much help but you are not alone....

Casati

Yes that is illegal parking and you should be fined for it.

crisco10

Illegal to park on road opposite a solid white line isn't it?

markpb

I'm not piling in because you were unlucky to be caught on the one day the guards decided to care about this but you really need to understand why it's illegal. There's a solid white line so a) you can't park there and b) you're forcing other road users to break the law by crossing the white line to get past you. And lastly, you're creating an obstruction in the road. If there isn't room for two vehicles (not just small cars) to meet safely and everyone is filtering in and out of parked cars, what happens when an emergency services vehicle is trying to get somewhere in a hurry?

Given how much of a blind eye the guards take to this, I'm going to guess that a fire engine or ambulance was going there, got delayed and put a call into the guards for a spot of enforcement.

Trigger Happy

I was up there on the 9th January and the whole road was blocked for about 1/2 a mile each side of the Hellfire club entrance. The illegally parked cars had reduced it to 1 lane and when people tried to get 2 cars in they got stuck and everything backed up. Took about 40 mins to get thru that mess. The guards turned up as we were leaving the area to try to clear it up.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230065/parking-fine-cruagh-road

There's a problem though - the herd mentality. Once a few cars park along a road like that, others come along and suspending normal judgement just join the herd - if everyone else is doing it, it must be fine etc

MuttonDagger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230065/parking-fine-cruagh-road

Block the road and F***K everyone else.

Good to see people getting tickets for this carry on.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230065/parking-fine-cruagh-road

Was their a solid white line? You can’t park on opposite one, as it’s illegal fir cars to cross it. So effectively you are blocking that lane

Muahahaha

How many cars does the car park at Cruagh hold? Its clearly not big enough for its popularity

xabi_a

It's a fair point about the solid white line. I don't know where the Gardai took that photo in the tweet, but below is roughly where I parked. No white line. That pic is from Google street view, Nov '21.

All the cars were parked partially on the green verge to the left. I think there was enough space for cars to pass each other on the road, but can't really be sure. Anyway looks like the Guards just decided to a full sweep. Glad to hear I'm not alone.

I had no idea at the time it would be illegal. Especially, as Furze99 says, with the herd mentality that everyone was doing it. It would be nice if DCC put up some signs near these car parks to make it doubly clear it's illegal to park there.

markpb

Parking on a grass margin or median strip is also illegal. Section 36 is worth a read: https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article36

From your photo, it’s hard to see how two vehicles (one parked) and a fire engine could all be side by side and have room to move. If that’s not the case, the parked car is causing an obstruction.

As for putting signs up, what’s the point? The photos posted by DFB on Twitter are opposite a white line. The council painted a white line to show people not to park (or overtake) there and people ignored it. Should they put signs outside every park in the city?

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541303#Comment_118541303

Don't worry the new visitors centre will have plenty of parking and a nice charge to go with it.

Doesn't really matter how many places the car park has anyway if it's full you can't park illegally, you drive up the road to find somewhere legal or walk somewhere else. There's a whole mountain range to walk over and some stunning views that are easy to get to. I'm always amazed that people going for walks don't want to walk.

bbuzz

I am up there regularly, and there is a solid white line there the whole way outside cruagh car park.

You should t have parked there, and got caught. Pay the fine and move on.

patrickbrophy18

One thing that would enforce the no parking rule parallel to the solid white median would be double yellow lines. Now, it would suck to have an FCPN issued days after the offence without any immediate acknowledgement of being penalized right there and then. At least a ticket on the windscreen would suffice.

On the other hand, having seen the picture which @macrubicon posted, it appears to present a massive obstruction to vehicles yielding to one another from opposite directions. This is especially pertinent for when emergency vehicles need to use this stretch of road.

Shortly before the first lockdown when people flocked in their droves (no pun intended) to Cruagh Road, Sally Gap and further afield, it was an obstacle course for those who were just driving without stopping with cars parked hither and tither. It got particularly bad at Crone Woods where the road is pretty much one lane wide.

So, I'm on the fence about the matter in question. It's certainly a horrible way of learning this lesson.

silver2020

From the AA

The key rule is that you cannot park a vehicle anywhere that interferes with the normal flow of traffic, or that obstructs or endangers others.

Two vehicles would not be able to pass on that road if there are cars parked.

Let's forget the "ambulance" or 'fire engine" scaremongering. Two vans or small bus and car combination or two large cars, would not able to pass together if cars were parked there.

The ticket is valid, I would not take any risk with not paying it

147 cars...

Quite a windfall.

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542466#Comment_118542466

Id forgotten about that proposed visitors centre, iirc they are planning a bus park for tourist coaches so it will be well developed. Has there been any confirmation though that cars will have to pay for a new car park?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543369#Comment_118543369

yeah it is but it also seems to be the way Gardai do enforcement for minor traffic offences -nothing for ages and then a huge blitz and then nothing for ages again. 147 fines looks great for their stats but doing a blitz once in a blue moon doesnt solve the problem. Should really be traffic wardens doing this work anyway but thats another thread.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545116#Comment_118545116

Traffic wardens are hired by the councils and tend to concentrate on revenue protection for paid parking. DLR and DCC have made noise about that focus shifting but I haven’t seen much sign of it actually happening. It’ll be interesting to see the next set of annual stats from DSPS/DCC.

Del2005

@Muahahaha

Id forgotten about that proposed visitors centre, iirc they are planning a bus park for tourist coaches so it will be well developed. Has there been any confirmation though that cars will have to pay for a new car park?

They will have to recoup the €15m spend on developing the centre and a cafe won't cover it. They'll use some BS about it being an environmental charge when there's feck all public transport to it and DB aren't going to increase the buses going up to it for the few hours on a weekend it's busy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542382#Comment_118542382

Grass margin = "means that portion of a public road situated on either side of a footway and which is provided for the growing of grass, trees or shrubbery of any kind;"

This is different to: ""road verge" means that part of a public road which is not a footway, a grass margin, a median strip or a roadway;"

Median strip = ""median strip" means a boundary between the two carriageways of a road other than a traffic sign to which article 10 of the Regulations of 1997 refers;"

Neither means what you seem to think they do, for what it's worth!

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547444#Comment_118547444

yeah the cynic in me can see them charging cars to park there and there is precedent with paid parking at other tourist sites (not that I see the Hellfire Club as much of a tourist site but thats the direction of development the council are going)

Paid parking up there will upset those who go there most days to walk their dog, theyre not going to want to pay 3 quid an hour 7 days a week. But I can see the council bringing it in anyway, as you say they have to recoup some of that 15m somehow.

Dr. Bre

They should build more parking facilities around cruagh/hellfire - seems to be a popular spot .

xabi_a

For me it's pretty obviously illegal parking near the Hell Fire Club, on the narrow road where I think the Garda photo was taken. But on Cruagh Road, where I was nabbed, it seems borderline to me.

On markp's asking what's the point of putting up signs? Well if they nab 147 vehicles on one day, then there are probably quite a lot every day, and my guess is that many like me don't know it's illegal on Cruagh Road. And it will be different people every day. So if the goal is to stop the parking, then put up clear signs to prevent them parking in the first place, instead of fining them when they're already parked and off up in the forest!

To be fair, the Gardai have setup a very convenient online payment system:-)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547444#Comment_118547444

Why would you expect free storage facilities for your private property?