Questions on Solar PV Self Install: Meter running backwards

briancoolcat

Hi all I have a 3.5 kw system installed a couple of weeks now and my meter has been holding its own since installation. Same reading on it roughly. That is it spins backwards when I am exporting and holds steady or moves forwards when importing and panels are not generating enough. I have Eddi diverter and no battery and am very happy with the setup. My meter is dated 1970 and definitely spins backwards and I have requested no installation of a smart meter. I will only have used about 70 units in my next two monthly reading which will be the lowest bill by far that I have ever got. Will the ESB force a newer analogue meter on me and if so should I get a day night meter or would I be better off getting a smart meter and staying on a 24 hour rate? I'm just thinking ahead so that they will know how much I am sending back to the grid in the better months. Thanks.

ELM327

If you have an inside house meter and you have a meter that goes backwards, for the love of god do nothing. They will never be able to change it.

briancoolcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514898#Comment_119514898

Unfortunately my meter is in a wall unit on outside of house so I'm banjaxed if they come and change it when no one is there.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515752#Comment_119515752

I think they have to tell you that they are changing it with some advanced notice. You can refuse I think (if they are swapping you to a smart meter).....at least temporarily, but at some stage (2023-2024) we'll all have the smart meters.

slave1

Smart meters can be refused, no timeline on when you must accept them, covered in Dail Q&A

graememk

But they could change it to a standard digital one that doesnt go back

briancoolcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518784#Comment_119518784

Ok so if they change me to a standard digital meter that doesn't go back where will that leave me? Will that meter be able to measure how much I am sending back to the grid and will I get credit in the next bill? Also I am currently on a standard 24 hour tariff with Electric Ireland so I presume I will just stay on that tariff unless I request a change? I will hang on to my backwards spinning meter as long as possible but I reckon Electric Ireland will push me as a priority for a meter change as soon as I send in my next reading.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519459#Comment_119519459

If you get a standard digital meter it wont measure export so you wont get paid for export UNLESS you qualify for the "deemed export". Since you are on a 24hr tariff you do qualify for a smart meter and if you refuse the installation of that meter then you wont qualify for FiT at all.

If you switched to a d/n tariff you would qualify for the deemed export but you'd have to get a standard digital meter for that. That will keep the smart meter out for another while but maybe a d/n tariff doesn't suit you.

Your best bet is to hang on to the meter you have and dont rock the boat. You dont need to get FiT at all with the meter you have as you are effectively getting paid full day rate as is. That's more than FiT will ever give you, so keep what you have.

Try to get your next reading to be a positive one so that it doesn't ring any alarm bills in their billing systems. As the winter rolls in you will naturally be importing more than exporting anyway so the subsequent bills over the winter should be fine until next summer where you will have the same problem again.

They will catch up with you eventually, just keep your head down for as long as you can! 😉

briancoolcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519507#Comment_119519507

Ok thanks for the explanation. I will keep the head down as I have refused a smart meter all ready. If I can get this year and next year out of my old meter I will be happy enough and seeing as we are all going to have a smart meter installed eventually I will bite the bullet and get a smart meter on a 24 HR tariff. Do any of the more knowledgeable posters here reckon we might get a bit more than 14 cent per unit from the energy providers exported to the grid down the line?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519836#Comment_119519836

This is what we have confirmed from the providers so far

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511819#Comment_119511819

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519836#Comment_119519836

FIT rate actually doesn't matter at the moment for those lucky souls with the backwards-spinning meters. We're getting the 'net metering' of 1 full credit for 1 unit sent to the grid. So at the point you have to move from the backwards meter, then look at what is happening in the FIT world. And that gives those of us who are new to solar time to suss out the tariffs that would better suit us. We've longer to see what our consumption is / could shift to.

Ummagumma_78

We installed a 5.1 kWp system in May 21. The meter has been spinning backwards since. Meter is on the outside wall. I just make sure I submit regular readings and never go negative. Will get as long as I can out of it.

SirPat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496589#Comment_119496589

Fab thread!! :) and thanks for that pic! Looks like I have the older non rachet one :)

Working on getting a solar system in soon! likely about 4-5 kw and will have the capacity to more than double that with only adding panels. Also getting a battery unit so can store/use some of my own when needed.. Will upgrade over next few years and as soon as can see am comfortably over for the year cycle will wave good buy to elec connection!

We have been avoiding the smart meter like crazy! To much power to them and yea the prices are not always good! The other pain is the location of the old meter is a royal pain and in a very tight spot so we asked them when they checked if we could move it at the same time.. eeeep! They said get you elec to put in the cable work / cert and then call them and pay 500.. so waved good buy!

One item to mention.. If have the old meter with the rachet = I don't think your supplier will get the money for the units as they have no way of knowing/measuring! Think would likely be ESB who can benefit as it would be their meters at the top and able to see how many units 'magically' appeared on the network..

If have the meter that runs backward :) mruhahaha! ok they would likely not be happy if the value goes down.. the benefit of this is any units removed from the total are saving you full value of what you would have to pay+vat!! i.e. if unit cost is 25c then that's what each saved one is worth.. this is better that feed in tariff as feed in tariff is normally quite a bit less than unit cost to buy!

Thanks for mention of that form that is needed will be checking it out as well!

DC999

Hey @SirPat , off topic on the backwards meter stuff. You mentioned you're going to get 4-5 Kwp system soon plus a battery. And that you might upgrade in time as 'have the capacity to more than double that adding panels'. It could be worth looking at not getting the battery now but getting a larger setup instead. Costs a lot to get the roofers and sparks out now and a year down the line (to make it larger) and you might need a larger inverter then. So if they are on your roof + in the attic anyway, get the larger size now I'd suggest. Then the 'engine' is bigger so you produce more, and get more FIT and likely get higher self consumption (as more is available when you do need juice).

I can only fit 5Kwp of panels (no more space available on roof or in garden) so a battery is the only 'upgrade' I can get. But if I had a choice of more panels (and more FIT for a lot of the year and I know FIT may not be around forever or at these rates), I'd likely ignore the battery and get more panels. Jury on this forum is very much out on getting a battery now that there is a decent FIT offered. Anyways, ask the installers for options and then you can drop the design and quote into the 'quote' thread. All the best with the hunting!

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608192#Comment_119608192

I'd echo what DC999 mentions about the battery, although in your case if you do have a backward spinning meter, then a battery would be (in your case) a bad investment. You have effectively the biggest battery of them all with a backward spinning meter. You "sell" to the grid during the day when you have excess from your panels and buy back that unit at night when there's no sun. No battery. No losses.

I would be very very very slow to swap that for a smart meter. you are in the lucky position of having the glorious meter from God himself. Just make sure that you always add on a few units from one reading to the next so it doesn't look like you are using "negative" units, and your golden.

Spend the extra battery money on panels.

Bad news: At some stage in the not so distance future (2023-2024), you'll have to get a smart meter I think, or be forced by excessive rate tariffs that not having a smart meter will cost you a fortune - but for now, your laughing

Jonathan

ESBN making a note of everyone on this thread. 😂

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608745#Comment_119608745

LOL

Markus Antonius

I assume this is a backwards spinamajig given it doesn't have the symbol:

My interest in solar panels has been piqued...

slave1

I'm going to throw something into the mix, mate of mine's parents (home house) got a Smart Meter after they got "the letter", they were consuming 1MW per month off the old spinning backwards meter, the Smart Meter has them at a third of that since install (same consumption habits). 40/50 year old uncalibrated meter has probably cost them thousands over the years.

ELM327

@Markus Antonius yes

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626583#Comment_119626583

Jaysus, that's massive. We use a little under 1MW every 4 months (but we use feck all power in the gaff). They should deffo pursue that!

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497094#Comment_119497094

The CE mark would date it at mid 90s at the earliest.

Glaceon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsLTfjLBMA

Just saw a YouTube video on this very subject.

spacerMur.

I got Solar Panels last May and there is only two of us in the house. We are with Energia and it wasn't long before the meter went backwards. When Energia requested a reading in early June we discovered that the Meter was gone further back than the last official reading. I rang Energia and explained about getting the Solar Panels and about the meter going back. The took the reading and we got a credit of €19.07. Then the next reading was around the end of August and again the meter reading was gone back much further and I emailed Energia and explained again about the Solar Panels and gave then the reading on the old meter. About a week later i got a bill from Energia of €812 minus the credit of €19.07. I rang them and they had estimated the reading. It has been a constant argument with them since. I got the smart meter in on the 16/9/22 because Energia told me I would have to get it in. The day that the ESB put in the smart meter we took a photo of the reading on the old meter. anyway long story short, the ESB then estimated the reading upwards. I am getting onto their complaints department about this. They say and the old meter was not suitable or setup for the solar panels and thats why they estimated it up. It would actually mean that I would own more than the estimated bill that Energia created. HELP!!!!

spose

What’s your set up? Do you have a hybrid inverter so potentially have actual usage data from the app?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682082#Comment_119682082

I am getting onto their complaints department about this. They say and the old meter was not suitable or setup for the solar panels and thats why they estimated it up.

If it was not suitable (by their own admission) then that's their problem, not yours. I assume your installer sent in an NC6 form to declare you had a Solar setup installed? Did you draw the grant?

You should continue with your complaint to ESB but also open a complaint with the regulator (cru.ie).

In reality, you probably do owe them money... I think you do realise that?.... its more a case of how much you owe them. You can dig your heels in and refuse to pay and stress yourself on that or try to work out the figures and come up with a mutually agreeable figure... it depends on how up for the fight you are but definitely dont just accept whatever random value they give you as its likely to be way over estimated and probably not paying you for your FiT either.

bullit_dodger

My opinion that is that you owe them zero (yes zero) from May onwards if that's when you got in the panels. It's totally not your fault that you have a backwards spinning meter, and the fact that you have lower values signifies that you exported more than you imported for this period. i.e you gave out more than you took in.

Now however, you do probably owe some money from when your previous bill (before may) was ended to when you got the panels in. I'd look up last year and see what your usage was for that period, work it out pro-rata if it's like 6 weeks out of 8 or something, and then apply the new unit prices for this year.

€800 is a bit saucy, but we don't know what your normal bills are.

Course you would have standing charges.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514898#Comment_119514898

😁😁

spacerMur.

Thanks. I think the installer sent in the required forms and I do believe I owe them some money. There would be standing charges at least, I presume.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690382#Comment_119690382

Keep us updated here if you don't mind because there are still plenty of people with the old meters who don't know 100% what happens when it has to be changed, myself included! I submit a reading every bill time and add a couple of units to keep it above the last reading. My meter is in the house so can avoid the meter reader taking the reading.