EV charger at workplace

Prospectors

Hi,

Does anyone have ev chargers at their workplace?

If so, how does it work - does employer pay for the electricity, or do you need to pay yourself?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058229517/ev-charger-at-workplace

Depends on the employer.

we have about 10. Shared. No right to use, first come first served.

no cost to employee

NIMAN

We have 4 x 2.

Again, no cost to employee.

the_amazing_raisin

We had 3 EC charging units where I worked, had to pay (14c/kWh) for them so never bothered using them

KCross

In an effort to apease the begrudgers (because there will always be those in every company) the employee pays a nominal amount in our place.

notAMember

Yes, have chargers at work. Plenty of them. No charge, and they are powered by wind turbines, which is satisfying…

ELM327

It's been over a year since I was last in the office but from memory at that point we had 5 * 2 * 22kW chargers at work (so 10 total plugin points).

Free to use.

There's also a few that are in the business park for all to use, these are pay to use.

Boscoirl

We have bout 50 chargers, mixture of 22kw AC and 25kw DC, currently free to use, but i am sure a nominal charge will come in soon, as they are getting busier. all the Managers have EVs now as their company cars.

i think some people only come to the office to charge the car

10-10-20

We have 6 for ~1,000 staff. All free but are 3.3kW.

Needless to say, they were causing some problems due to availability and low charge speed. Some users completely depended on the charge to get home (8hrs * 3.3 = 26.4kWh), others were happy to just take it when available and others never got a charge as they started later in the day. When we tried to mediate by splitting the charge-day in half we met resistance, mainly from the older vehicle/smaller capacity users who wanted to sit and charge all day.

If we were doing it again I'd have some 3.3kW chargers assigned to individual parking spots as "day-long" sessions and then a selection of 7kW chargers shared between two parking spots as "semi-day" sessions. That way the 7kW users don't need to physically move their vehicles, they can just release the charging cable at lunch-time and let the other user take up the charge.

DC would have been nice, but the local ESB transformer was already at it's limit.

slave1

Assuming office/shift hours then ERs should look to external 3pin sockets, EEs don't come to work for a free charge and should not be encouraging same. 2.2kW is plenty for your typical shift, ~15-16kWh into the battery.

Their install cost is a fraction of a charge point and they can then have many more charging spots

whippet

I've started with a new company this year and our office is a shared office space - quite small - was delighted to see to chargers out front on the first day. however it turns out the management company charge €1.50 per hour for the use - I'm assuming it is probably on 3.3kw as it is a single pole with two plugs .. but at that rate I didn't even bother to enquire.

PsychoPete

We have 4 chargers in the car park but nobody that works here has an EV

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524387#Comment_118524387

All free but are 3.3kW.....

... the older vehicle/smaller capacity users who wanted to sit and charge all day.

Thats a ball ache for sure. Ours are setup on timeslots and the charge session auto stops and you are expected to move... "Its a charging space not a parking space."

A fair usage policy was also setup from the get go, so no hogging the charge points all day. If someone buys a car that necessitates they hog the charge point all day then thats their problem. Once you set a precendent or give people something its very hard to take it back.

You'll probably now have to wait until all the low range cars are gone before you can change the policy unless you can get some new 11kW charge points installed, which sounds unlikely given you also have transformer limitations.

Chris_5339762

Public service here, not one single charger in any staff carpark.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524238#Comment_118524238

Wow, that's pretty impressive, must be a fairly forward thinking company

finbarrk

About 6 chargers here. Maybe 150 working staff. There is hardly 6 users at the moment anyway. Free too.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524387#Comment_118524387

Who needs 26kWh to get home? Even in my pig slightly inefficient EV, I'm fairly sure I could manage over 100km in winter with 26kWh. Is it more likely to were avoiding charging at home by doing all their charging in work?

slave1

The commuters obviously, mate of mine had long commute with Leaf24, had to fully charge in work to get home, last I was chatting to him pre all this COVID crap the car was on 240k, treated it as a workhorse, never serviced and was in PWO with 3 lost bars

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525233#Comment_118525233

He was coming in via the motorway all the way in an older Leaf24 so was eating the watts. I think he needed 20kWh, but wanted the extra few for comfort (or heating)! Talk about keeping it tight!!

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524098#Comment_118524098

No they're not. They are powered by the grid, which in turn is supplied by a mixture of generator types, gas, wind, coal, and nuclear through subsea cables. The mix of generators on the grid varies continuously, and everybody gets the same power from the same mix of sources regardless of what their supplier tries to convince them of.

If your supplier is giving good rates for renewable only, that is just an exercise in billing and a healthy dose of greenwash nonsense.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525315#Comment_118525315

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick somehow. This is about workplace facilities, not domestic.

I didn't name the place, so I'm not sure how you seem so very sure of yourself. Involved in the commissioning of the turbines? You receive the monthly generation reports and alerts?

At this workplace specifically, the plant is powered by private turbines on prem, and feeds back to the grid. The turbines typically generate more than 400% of the campus needs. Including all the support services, water processing, kitchens, IT systems, facilities (like the in-house car chargers).

Boscoirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524799#Comment_118524799

I work for a car manufacturer. We also have roughly 30 more chargers in a workshop including a ~300kw DC charger(that’s not fully commissioned so only get 100kw at the moment so not sure what the max speed of it is) they are not for employee use though.

innrain

1 public DC 50 kW charger on the grounds. ~1300 parking spaces.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524761#Comment_118524761

What part of the PS?

I'm PS and we have about 10, free to use.

Sam the Sham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525315#Comment_118525315

While that is true, when you choose an electricity provider who advertises 100% renewable electricity you are encouraging others providers to compete on those same grounds.

What makes no sense to me is when you have a provider like Bord Gais that has some plans that are “green” and others that are not. I assume what that means is only that they divide their total contribution to the grid into renewable and non-renewable sources and sell proportionate amounts of the respective plans.

Grumpypants

We had two between 3 if us. One person in the leaf we let plug in all day and us two with phevs swapped at lunch so we all got a charge.

Hopefully when we go back they stick in a few more.

They were free but you had to go into security and then back out with a swipe card then back to security and then to your desk. Good for getting the steps up. Not when it's raining and you are late for a meeting.

Prospectors

OP here,

Thanks for the info.

My workplace don't have any yet, but it sounds like there are concerns by some with ICE cars that any free electricity should be considered BIK and therefore should not be free.

We will see what happens.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528079#Comment_118528079

That was confirmed in a government budget a few years ago (2018) and there is no BIK involved for electricity used in workplace charging. The ICE drivers are begrudgers... thats all that is.

Go to this doc. Page 7 says...

"Electricity used in the workplace for charging vehicles will also be exempt from benefit in kind."

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528079#Comment_118528079

Christ, do they pay bik on their coffee machine use and parking space as well? Miserable gits.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524700#Comment_118524700

I agree, we have 10 x 22kw and with a Model 3 the car is charged by 10am. With Covid it hasn't been full yet but only a matter of time. Would have been better to have more chargers with a lower output if there was a constraint. It's mostly PHEVs charging at 3 kw anyway!

Grumpypants

Is it a regulation now to have chargers. If not it should be.

Jofspring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524098#Comment_118524098

That in Limerick? Saw a few wind turbines in a car park when I was driving past at the weekend and wonder if they were car chargers. Very impressive.

the_amazing_raisin

Personally I think 7kW is about the best for workplace chargers where the car will be sitting there all day

7kW chargers can be obtained pretty cheaply these days and you can triple the number of chargers versus 22kW units in the same grid connection

Obviously for employees that are only on-site for a short while as part of their job would need something with higher output, I've seen some compact 50kW units that can be wall mounted

I think the problem with 3 pin sockets is they're liable to be abused (workmen plugging in tools, etc.) and they're only weatherproof if covered properly, something a lot of people will probably forget to do

10-10-20

I'd argue that to scale at a reasonable factor in larger businesses, 7.4kW is too high - and needlessly so.

Let's say - sometime in the future - a company decides to roll-out 10% of charging spaces and the space count is 500.

500 * 0.10 * 7.4 = 370kW over 50 chargers.

Now, rather than 7.4kW, deploy 3.3kW:

500 * 0.10 * 3.3 = 165kW over 50 chargers.

Then with the majority of chargers at 3.3kW and full-day workers getting (8hrs * 3.3kW) 26.4kWh, I'd then install 1% at 7.4kW (5 chargers) and also have two ~30kW DC chargers for resilience.

The maximum draw on the whole installation is (142kW + 37.5 + 60kW) = 239kW.

That way, a visitor who's due to visit for a 2hr meeting can obtain a reasonable 60kW charge within that duration and the staff are kept happy playing swop-spaces for the 7kW chargers in their free-time. Still a lot less but more effective than 370kW! Beats smoking anyhow. ;)

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529274#Comment_118529274

I agree 7kW is a good compromise. Free workplace charging is a good benefit similar to free gym or games room. However in general free tends to be abused, such as people with home chargers instead over using work only charging to save a few quid. Also with free when chargers break or there is not enough, then there is often no maintenance or expansion budget, and may be no easy way to turn on billing

The opposite is true too with expensive workplace resulting in no one getting an EV and those that do only charging at home. It can work out more expensive than petrol or diesel. A price like 20c/kWh is a reasonable middle ground but up front costs for loads of chargers is not an easy sell, particularly when few employees have EVs. I have been campaigning for years at my employer with 350 staff and on site electricians. The hold up seems to be employer does not want it to be free, grumbling about BIK, and does not see it as a priority. 3 years later no change despite multiple suggestions. They don't say no, just still looking at paid systems. Only one vehicle is an EV, lots of brand new ICE in car park. One worry I would put on employer is than 10+ dedicated spaces are needed, and we don't have that many unused spaces. I could see a lot of long commuters going EV if there was free workplace charging.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527531#Comment_118527531

Health service, big hospital. They are pushing walking, public transport and cycling. No interest in electric charging because they don't want staff to drive. Never mind we can't get to work on public transport in a sane way.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529663#Comment_118529663

That’s a bugger.

Its probably the way we will all go.

We use our cars for work so no ouch to remove parking just yet but with WFH we are hardly in the office anyway.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524761#Comment_118524761

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529663#Comment_118529663

Is the same for us. We have a Climate Action Plan launched in September 2021 for the next 5 years and the big thing for commuting is walking and cycling. They reckon commuting represents 19% of the whole carbon footprint and there is no need to encourage EV adoption. The plan is not to add anything on top of the 1 DC charger installed in 2020 for public not staff, and find solution to "reduce car park demand". Unfortunately I can't walk 40km so I drive 80km. Public transport is 2h each way vs 1h15' on a bike as estimated by google.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529637#Comment_118529637

The hold up seems to be employer does not want it to be free, grumbling about BIK...

The BIK thing is no longer an issue. See here

They don't say no, just still looking at paid systems.

Once you go down the paid route it becomes expensive in its own right to actually administer the payment system. You need to hand out fobs or rfid cards and then have back office systems recording and sending people invoices etc for a few measly euro. It doesnt really make sense in a workplace unless we are talking massive campus of 1000s.

The easiest option if you dont want it to be free is a token system. Several charge points offer it as an option. You buy a token and the token gives you Xmins on the charge point. You can adjust the time limit and the price of the token to suit your needs. Its not ideal, but its low maintenance, no expensive backend systems or invoicing or staff required.

It does also have the benefit, as you aluded to, that there is then a kitty of money that can be used for maintenance, if required. It also ensures that its not abused as its time limited per token.

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524700#Comment_118524700

I've been asked to look into getting EV charging points installed at our workplace and I'm trying to learn about this, I don't have an EV so learning from scratch.

When you say supply external 3 pin sockets is it something like these linked below?

https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wall-mounted-chargers/products/wallpod-ev-3-phase-type-2-socket-3pole-isolator?variant=9694505369647

We have 3 phase electricity and won't be charging for usage. I reckon we need 2 or 3 charge points at most.

For safety/security, we'd probably need to have switch inside the office to turn on/off the sockets - otherwise anybody could be charging away when the office is closed leading to €€€ problems! We'd probably need CCTV on the spaces as well.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636163#Comment_118636163

We have 3 phase electricity and won't be charging for usage. I reckon we need 2 or 3 charge points at most.

In that case, I'd recommend you get a 22kW unit. It will allow two cars to charge simultaneously at upto 11kW each. So, one unit.... 2 charge ports.

If you wanted to go a step further then, just put two of those in to give you 4 charge ports.

You can have rfid cards for them but you can run into issues with the rfid cars that people dont return them. An alternative is to buy a charge point that accepts tokens. Here is an example of what it looks like in pedestal format from Rolec

https://midsummer.ie/pdfs/rolec-tokenmaster-manual.pdf

With tokens all you have to do is have a central place for people to get them in the workplace and someone in charge to empty the unit every so often. It's cheap, simple and effective from strangers trying to use the charge point.

The tokens also allow you to set charge time limits.... a token can give, say, 2hrs chargig or 3hrs or whatever you decide. i.e. fair usage policy rather than first come first served and the same people hog the charge point all day.

Proper placement of the charge points in your car park is very important. Depending on your car park layout, try to put the charge point(s) in the middle of a block of 4 back to back spaces. That way 4-6 cars can technically access the charge point. Only two can charge at a time but once one car is finished, another can start charging, without having to get someone to move their car in the middle of the day.

If all you have is a long row of spaces backed by a building wall then you are stuck... it will be a space for each charge port and you have to move cars to give the next user access. Not much you can do about that if thats the layout you have.

buzz11

Great thanks for that, lots of good info there.

It doesn't look like tokens would be required - its a bit to elaborate for our needs and the power will be paid by the company so we'd just need basic on/off control within the building, I'm sure the electrician can offer a solution for this.

Another basic question: are there universal sockets? or is it up-to the car driver to have the right plug type?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637942#Comment_118637942

we'd just need basic on/off control within the building

They are generally designed to be left on 24/7. You could put a isolator on them in the building and cut the power everyday but I would wonder about the longevity with that solution. Electronic devices tend to go bad during lots of on/off cycles but maybe it will be ok.

Just thinking about the problem a bit more... do you really think someone is likely to rob the companies electricity? Is the area very public in nature? Bear in mind that for someone to rob the electricity they would need to have their car plugged in there for hours on end. Is someone going to actually do that? And if there was an occasional instance it would be in the order of €2 worth of electricity.... is the problem that big a deal that its worth doing anything about it?.... i.e. forget tokens and power switches... just leave them on and see how it goes.

Also note that they will have their own trip switches so you can always just flip those if you have access to the consumer unit if it does start to get abused.

are there universal sockets? or is it up-to the car driver to have the right plug type?

Yes, universal. They are "Type 2" sockets. Every car comes with a type 2 compatible cable. They use their own cable.

ELM327

If you want it to be paid, easygo are good for this. They have their own app and handle billing etc so it handles the admin

If you want it to be free to use I'd expect some chargers to give issues with constant on/off cycles. Home chargers are meant to be always on. In my workplace we have 6*2*22kW chargers, free at the point of use. Security monitor for nefarious useage but they are left constantly on.