Am I using this roundabout correctly?

The Mighty Quinn

I use this roundabout most days. My path is the blue line. Very often somebody pulls up beside me in the red line and tries to take the same exit, resulting at times in things getting too close for comfort.

It seemed to me that I was the only person using the blue line, so I changed a few times and said I'd go the red way, only to almost cause a crash myself by another driver taking the blue line.

So can somebody confirm, is the blue or red the correct line here?

The Raging Bile Duct

Blue line is correct as it's the third exit.

moceri

The roundabout is badly designed. There are two approach lanes, yet there are no road markings on the roundabout to allow two lanes of traffic flow. However, once you have passed the 1st Exit (R527) you should turn on left signal and move to the left of the roundabout so that no one can undertake you or block your exit.

redsheeps

If there's no signage to indicate which lane, then it's the blue lane but not because of anything to do with the exit number.

If there is no signage to indicate which lane to be in then the rule is based on the roundabout being a clock.

• You always enter at 6 o'clock.
• If you're taking an exit between 6 and 12 o'clock you take the left lane (red line).
• If you're taking an exit exactly at 12 o'clock (so going straight through), you take left lane (red line).
• If you're taking an exit after 12 o'clock you take the right lane (blue line).

See this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZPurrWm6Xw

Personally on roundabouts like that the designers should be putting in signage to clarify because the exit you're taking isn't much past 12 o'clock so it's not 100% clear for drivers.

The Mighty Quinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506258#Comment_118506258

I hear what you're saying, but in morning traffic, often both lanes are full, no scope to just sweep to the left after having passed first exit.

XVII

p. 132

P.S. roundabouts are cancer in this country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506258#Comment_118506258

Very badly designed

2 lanes on - 1 lane off = Should be better marked. I'd agree with Moceri, stay in blue lane until after first exit, then get over into the left hand lane ASAP. Technically you should wait until after the 2nd exit, but there's not enough room to do that, realistically.

Actually, looking at it on street view, going exactly via the blue line is madness. Waiting until this point to move left is asking for trouble.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6650906,-8.6698304,3a,75y,255.63h,66.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPG8UDhsIxWcWr_GtvB8Wyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here's another one from the same city - at the entrance to UHL for those familiar with the area... Coming from the R526 (Raheen) at the bottom, you're in the right lane as the left is a bus lane. Just before the roundabout, the bus lane ends. On the other side of the R526 (Dooradoyle) at the top of the roundabout, there are two lanes initially, but almost immediately, the bus lane starts up again so you're forced back into the right hand lane.

Should one switch to the left lane before the roundabout or continue in the right lane when intending to go straight through?

A sad state of affairs vis 'Rules of the Road' when "o'clock" is mentioned 😌

You might enter at "6 o'clock" , but there might very well be no 12 o'clock, depending on the design/layout of roundabout

fwiw OP, I think you're right 😃 You passed 2 exits before your turnoff, so that's a 'stay in the right-hand side lane until passing 2nd to last exit before leaving roundabout'

timmyntc

Are there no road markings indicating which lane to use?

There are roundabouts out there with 2 lanes in and 1 lane out, but where both lanes in can be used to target 1 lane out. Its expected you merge in the exit before it narrows fully to 1 lane wide, and it works just fine.

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506570#Comment_118506570

All depends on the roundabout as to whether it "works just fine". I can think of one particular roundabout in Galway where there are 2 lanes entering the roundabout and one lane exiting at the other end (12 o'clock) due to a 24hr bus lane. It is usually bedlam! No matter which way you do it, someone gets narked.

Some roundabouts are just badly planned and executed and sometimes I wonder are they deliberately done to discourage traffic from certain routes (but I don't think that road planners are actually that clever).

For those badly designed roundabouts that I encounter, I usually employ the "if I can exit without causing an issue, then exit" mantra. Trying to tell someone on the road they have exited a roundabout wrong will do you no good if there is an issue anyway.

redsheeps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506537#Comment_118506537

There's always a 12 o'clock. It's not referencing an exit at 12 o'clock. It's just saying that you divide the roundabout (circle) in half as a reference to guide your decision making.

It's a decent rule of thumb as it uses a reference 'measurement' that is commonly understood.

It could just as easily be degrees but I would imagine this would be less generally understood.

• You always enter at 0 degrees.
• If you're taking an exit between 0 and 180 degrees - technically 0-179 degrees - you take the left lane (red line).
• If you're taking an exit exactly at 180 degrees (so going straight through), you take left lane (red line).
• If you're taking an exit after 180 degrees - technically 181-359 degrees - you take the right lane (blue line).

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506537#Comment_118506537

If the roundabout is circular (not always the case) then there is always going to be a 12 o'clock point on it. There may not be an exit at that point but it is the point at which you are no longer going left, after that point you are going right. If there is an exit at the 12 o'clock point and you take it then you are going straight ahead.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506671#Comment_118506671

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506680#Comment_118506680

Only a 'Rule of Thumb' really so.. All very vague... I guess that's why they're called 'Rules' , rather than 'Laws' of the Road 😊

cruizer101

Its a terrible rule of thumb, some roundabouts have no exits before 12 some have 3 before 12. The left lane for exit 1 or 2 and right for beyond that makes far more sense.

That said the main problem is signage, any roundabout with multiple lanes approaching should have clear signage.

The above roundabout should probably really have 2 lanes on the exit in question which then merge, there is plenty of space for that to have been done

MarkR

That roundabout is very badly signposted. If you come in from the Condell Road side, signage seems to be suggesting that there are only 4 exits off the roundabout, fir 5 entry points? (Am I reading that right? Is that what the red bar means?)

https://goo.gl/maps/bxcCjJnFgyFKu2CH7

Never mind, I had my stupid pants on. It's marked as a cul de sac. So you should be on the right, but indicating from after the turn for the condell road. Your red friend should be turning into the cul de sac, but it's up to you if that's the hill you want to die on.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506619#Comment_118506619

Bishop O'Donnell Road and the WDR?

chooseusername

The toll sign says the toll is ahead with an arrow pointing straight ahead,

so you are going straight ahead regardless of the number of exits before your exit, so you stay in left lane.

Right lane for turning right only.

rabout.jpg

Oddly with this one , all the entrances onto the roundabout have 2 lanes for the last 10 mtrs,(except the local road ,2nd exit) but all exits only one lane.

redsheeps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506713#Comment_118506713

It's as clear as a Fox's glacier mint.

Curious_Case

Once on a roundabout, never undertake a vehicle indicating left.

Once on a roundabout, never exit without indicating left.

The above suggestions do not, in any way, contradict the fact that a vehicle may have been indicating right until passing it's penultimate exit.

A right indicator or no indicator means "not taking the next exit".

A left indicator means "taking the next exit".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506872#Comment_118506872

Bout sums it up alright ! 😃

Not very clear at all ..

mgbgt1978

The correct line in this case would be the Red Line. However, for some reason, Limerick City Council have removed the approach sign which shows (showed) the Exit the OP is using is at 12 o'clock. As not everybody can be expected to know the layout of every roundabout in the Country the Rules of the Road advise Drivers to use signage as an indication of which lane to use.

If you look at Streetview coming in the opposite direction (on the OP's way home) the sign shows the entry and exit as directly opposite each other.

The main issue with this particular Roundabout is the Morning Rush hour. 90% of the Cars on the OP's approach road are taking the 1st exit and heading in towards limerick City. This road into the City is usually backed up and so too is the approach road. Consequently many Cars which are taking the OP's exit will use the R/H lane as they enter the Roundabout rather than sit behind a load of Cars which are waiting to take the 1st exit.

As for counting the number of Exits to determine which lane to enter a roundabout.....that idea was abandoned years ago by the RSA when they introduced their Clock System.

@Phileas_Frog, at the UHL R/about you are supposed to move to the L/H lane if travelling towards the City.

I'd disagree with the UHL one. 2 lanes in, 2 out, thus either lane can be used, no?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506619#Comment_118506619

Timpeallan de Brun? Yeah that is awful, but only because the traffic gets backed up at the lights and then backs up all the way to the roundabout. Shouldn't be a roundabout in the first place as there is no space on exits for free flowing traffic

CramCycle

The real issue is why were those small number of houses given an entrance onto the roundabout, rather than have them come onto the Condell road with a left turn only, and get rid of that stupid 2nd entrance/exit, and have their entrance off the road to the Toll just after coming off the roundabout. The red lane to me is the safer of the two, as you don't have to merge in on top of someone as you have the left turn but it's not right.

cpoh1

Regardless of the guidance in the RSA booklet, clocks, number of exits etc. if you are in the blue lane you need to give way to the car in the red lane. If you hit him you are essentially leaving the inner lane of the roundabout and entering the outside lane with a car already in it.

FWIW the red lane is the correct lane anyway, its the 12 o'clock or straight ahead exit.

Damien360

Far too many roundabouts countrywide require local knowledge. For example, an awful lot of Cork roundabouts hold the lane all way around them. Dublin ones change lane just past 180 exit. There are a few in Naas and Castlebar that have left lane as left only and right lane for straight on. Galway is a mess but they are removing them. 2 lanes enter and both lanes end up taking first exit (that one has just been removed at Dunnes). Far too many have 2 lanes in and one out causing chaos depending on who thinks they are correct.

The ones that tend to work are the ones with 90, 180, 270 degree exits and no other stupid tiny ones added off axis.

We don’t maintain the paint on most, so the racing line eventually evolves at those ones (start on left lane, cut into middle, exit out on left one).

Then we have the bit of paint on the ground acting as a roundabout. Those are dangerous as often people drive over the top and god help you if you have to take a 270 exit.

mgbgt1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507048#Comment_118507048

There's really only one exit lane. The bus lane starts as soon as you leave the roundabout. Ask any Driving Instructor (or Bike instructor 😉) about this Roundabout. They will all give the same answer.

And they all advise their pupils to let the Driving Tester see them glance at the R/H Mirror when exiting....to ensure a Car hasn't (incorrectly) used the R/H approach lane and is now about to collide with them as they both exit the Roundabout.

kirving

The "past 12 o'clock" is negligible here - its barely 1 o'clock anyway.

Exit 2 is also negligible, it's not very busy.

What's more important is that it's a single exit, and is basically straight on, and there are no markings - so stay left.

I'd be following the green line, and "taking" my right of way from the blue cars, and joining the blue line.

If there is a big queue from the green line, take the right lane, do a full 360, and then anyone in green should be giving way to you.

Note too at the exit that the road is worn/cleaner on the blue line, not the red line.

RSA say to use the left lane, and their example is 2 lanes on, 1 lane off.

https://youtu.be/4rsdaSTOkWk?t=32

Squeaksoutloud

I would say red as would consider that exit as being roughly straight on or within the 12:00 rule. Almost identical to the M7/N77 interchange at the Midway Portlaoise. This has less traffic on it and cars exiting from Abbeyleix towards Portlaoise take the red line in OPs sketch. Cars heading northbound onto the M7 using the right hand / inside lane and move to the outside lane after the 12:00 Portlaoise exit.

Voodoomelon

The only thing that these roundabout threads highlight is the huge differing opinions as to what the correct route to take is.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, I always come at it from the angle that most insurance companies will rule 50-50% in the case of an incident, and you can scream and kick all you want as to who is in the right or the wrong, at the end of the day you have to have complete awareness on these badly laid out roundabouts and expect the other 50% of the drivers on them to be doing the complete oppoosite of what you're doing.

The Mighty Quinn

Yeah this thread didn't exactly provide a consensus I was hoping for!

geotrig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058229013/am-i-using-this-roundabout-correctly

Red lane unless otherwise indicated with signage ,arrows etc as its the "straight ahead" or 12'o clock exit and standard 2 lane etiquette re merging etc ,if in blue lane don't cut across unless you've indicated and or safe to do so ,if in red lane indicate and exit but be aware of what is on your right hand side, a car could be in the blue lane and using that exit as the 3rd exit.

I agree with phileas frog that the uhl one is troublesome and ive seen issue's with the bus lane/stop being so close to where you are supposed to enter the left lane to go straight.

looksee

I am pleased to see/interested in this discussion. I had the same experience at a two on-one off roundabout. I was caught in the right lane as I had overtaken and couldn't get into the left lane at the roundabout, I should have gone round again but (wrongly) assumed the off was two lanes and caused some consternation to the car beside me when I realised it was not. There was no indication approaching the roundabout or at the on-junction that the roundabout was a one-lane-off - others in the sequence are two on/two off.

Anyway it gave both of us a fright and I have now learned from it.

Esel

Wrong. Effectively exiting at 12 o'clock, so left lane is correct.

chooseusername

Problem solved;

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506570#Comment_118506570

Try telling that to a Garda

I will be in court soon regarding something similar to the op except the exit is further at the "2pm" time if taking the clock analogy. 210 degrees from the entry point to be more precise.

Garda said that because I was continuing on the same road (r445) that the left lane is used.

I literally laughed and asked him where I could find a reference for that and he refused to do so and had a ticket sent to me for "driving without consideration"

Funny, he undertook me on the approach to get ahead of me in order to block me get me to pull over after exiting.

I will not be paying the fine and look forward to what he has to say in court.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516032#Comment_118516032

They used to do that, but too many eejits were literally turning right onto the roundabout.

h3000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507048#Comment_118507048

There isn’t two lanes on the exit though.

looksee

I think '12 o'clock' is not so much a legal term as a way of saying you are effectively going straight on/continuing on the same road, regardless of a slight bend in the road. If there were two exits before the one you took you might have an argument, if there is only one then I don't think it will be accepted.

Vaccinated30

On a roundabout like this, close your eyes and hold your breath. What will be will be 😂

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507547#Comment_118507547

I often use this strategy especially abroad when unsure exit i need...

OP... my view on this is assuming road clear and two cars entering the car entering first has right to exit first just courtesy... entering bat the exact time whoever best on roundabout... i have often overtook on roundabout in this situation... go to Spain/Italy and hire a car you learn pretty fast...

h3000

Here’s another Limerick roundabout to add to the roundabout discussion 😉

Leaving the M7 westbound towards Castletroy. I’m interested as to what lane people think should be used here. In reality you could see anything on that roundabout.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516073#Comment_118516073

right lane and indicate and move left after first exit on to motorway... check left mirror just in case i happen to be around...

h3000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516089#Comment_118516089

I believe so. Right lane on entry. Move left after motorway (second) exit. And exit roundabout. You could see anything there though.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516049#Comment_118516049

I've changed it now , these signs are common all over the Uk , no problems.

Frightening to see how there could be so much confusion around roundabouts. In the OPs case, look at the sign. His exit is clearly marked as the 12 o'clock position so stay on the left lane. How there can be any confusion, I don't know ...

If the local authority want to balance the traffic volumes between lanes, then the 12 o'clock rule might not apply and follow the road markings instead. Example:

maestroamado

Basically whoever in RSA designed roads must have being driving horse/cart...

maestroamado

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522914#Comment_118522914

The RSA don't design roads. TII do (formerly the NRA)

The OP is using the roundabout correctly to the letter of the law, but not the spirit. Which is an indictment on the design for sure.

I would use it as if the second exit did not exist. And be all the safer for it.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522998#Comment_118522998

I agree the roundabout is badly designed... no.., clarity for usage because of design...