Bought car from ‘reputable dealership’ which now turns out to be crashed.

Parkieman

Hi guys ,

just wondering has anybody had a similar experience. Bought a car from a ‘reputable dealership’ early 2021 , after driving the car for 6 months it began making noises. Took to my local mechanic to discover that the car was structure was damaged and had previously been involved in a crash. Tried to negotiate a solution with the garage in question who are no help. Had an engineers report done which stated it that the car is unroadworthy. The car is sitting in storage the past 6 months now. Have been in touch with SIMI , CCPC and the Garda who are also no help. Have also been in touch with solicitor who has tried to negotiate with garage and still no budge. I paid €25,000 for the car up front and have been now told that the car is not worth €5,000 in its current condition. Has anybody had a similar problem and how did they go about retrieving their money? Am I wasting my time going to court as I have a gut feeling that I’m not the only victim of this establishment.?

thanks

mickdw

Get a better solicitor and take it to court.

That is not in anyway good enough.

I guess you need some proof that this damage was there before you bought it.

Have you done a history check?

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502168#Comment_118502168

Just to add that on another thread here, someone had success going the Simi route which was very surprising to me but success none the less

Car99

Did you get a quote from a body shop for repairs to put the car right? A €25000 car that has all straight panels , engine, box and all other parts is surly worth more than 5k even as a breaker . What car is it, what damage exactly has it sustained? Did you do a car data check before purchase?

Parkieman

Yes done history check before buying and even still history check is squeaky clean. The independent engineer who accessed the car is of the opinion that the age of the botched repairs would suggest that said repairs were carried out long before I purchased the car but there is no actual way of proving this. Very tricky situation and court could end up costing me another €25,000 potentially if I don’t win the case. Distraught.

Parkieman

@Car99 the costs of repair could cost anything from €5000 to €6000 but that’s only a quote from one repair shop. The car is an Audi A6 sline , all the bells and whistles. Have no idea how much the damage would affect the resale value of the car, trying to limit the financial damage as much as I can.

mickdw

Did it go through a test since you got it?

Parkieman

Yes , the garage in question arranged and paid for The test . I had to bring it to test a week after purchase myself and it passed test. NCTS not claiming any responsibility as they are saying the faults in the car couldn’t have been discovered without removing covers from the underbody of the car.

Henry Ford III

What did the garage that sold you the car say?

Car99

We buy any car

Parkieman

The garage that have sold me the car are more or less trying to say that the damage to the car was caused by meself . I have welcomed them to view the car or send an engineer to view the car on their behalf which they have declined.

mickdw

If it passed a test, get a genuine quote to make it structurally safe. It might not be so bad.

You are doing yourself more damage by pretty much blacklisting your car with every concerned party such as ncts and insurers.

Something worth checking. It's probably an import. It might have been fixed from breaker parts or it might have had parts from Audi. You could ring an Audi dealer in UK and try to find any record of any parts bought against that chassis number/reg. It would be a result if for example they had evidence of a front subframe and associated bits being bought for the car prior to your ownership.

That would be a slam dunk and no judge would entertain the argument that you did the damage then.

Also even if repaired with used parts, depending on damage, it may have needed to go to Audi for coding etc if airbags or anything were replaced. It's certainly worth looking at.

I'm not sure if Audi dealer software or vcds would be able to find any past history of resets or anything by reading the actual car but again worth a try.

Parkieman

Thanks for the advice , that’s definitely worth a shot. Much appreciated, will try anything at this stage that will give me solid evidence in court. Much appreciated.

anewme

Sorry to hear that OP.

A friend of mine had a similar incident - was about to buy a car, when I did a check there was severe damage and despite the car costing 20K, like yourself, it would have been worth 5K. Lucky escape.

Is it a UK import?

Are they a franchised Dealer?

Parkieman

Definitely a lucky escape for your friend. I’ve had 6 months of absolute hardship and no use of a car. Yes I learned that’s it’s a UK import , have been on to DVLA to try find out more information and they have said there’s nothing to suggest that it was ever involved in an accident. Sounds to me like a case of somebody crashing daddy’s car with no insurance. No insurance company’s in uk are aware of the damage either which means there is no category on the car. I’m trying to figure out if worst came to worst and I had to cover the repairs myself would I still be loosing a big percentage of resale value down the line. Or is it even worth getting repaired ?

Car99

If it is repaired properly and not recorded anywhere why do you think it would be worth less than any other A6 on the market

TheW1zard

Sell it

Boards.ie: Niamh

Moved to Motors forum.

mikeecho

It's been almost 12 months. And now you're reporting damage.

The ball isn't fully in your court.

Best advice is to contact a solicitor, you'll have to go the legal route.

As for having a fresh nct when you bought it.... I've stories I could tell about a dealer in cork.

cpoh1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506522#Comment_118506522

Read the post again...

User1998

If the car has a clean history check and you bought it over a year ago you will not get anywhere in court. I don’t think its fair on the dealer as they are right you could have done the damage yourself.

And why has the car been in storage for 6 months? If your not happy with the car then sell it or trade it in for another car?

Seth Brundle

What exactly is the damage?

When you had the damage inspected by a bodyshop to get a cost of repairs, did they give you a quote for a claim (insurance or otherwise) or a privately paid quote as they can and do differ significantly (repairs made through insurance claims tend to be inflated).

Did you get a few quotes for repair?

As for the dealer, are they a franchised dealer or just a car dealer that has been around for a good few years? Do they do many UK imports? Have you searched the internet to see if other buyers from this dealer have bought a lemon there?

In terms of your options, in my view you only have one realistic option: pay for it yourself. Talk of court cases and so on will just grind you down. You bought a lemon and you can't prove that it was a lemon when you bought it. There isn't really anything more that you can do that would not involve a very risky court challenge that you probably will lose and will cost you a lot more than getting the car repaired.

Cut your losses on this and just get the car repaired properly yourself. Yes you'll be out of pocket and it is unfair but it is the best avenue for you. It means that overall the car will cost you a bit more but at least you'll be able to use it knowing that it has been fixed properly and has recovered most of its value.

Next time you buy a used car, get it inspected before you part with your hard earned money!

Toyotafanboi

Two basic things need to be clarified IMO before you can get better advice.

A better definition of reputable dealer and independent assessor.

Parkieman

A point I failed to mention in original post is that the gearbox was spot welded to the chassis of the car and the welds snapped while I was driving the car causing the gearbox to come away from the chasis. My mechanic advised I get an independent engineers report on the vehicle , the report from the engineer them uncovered numerous other signs of crash damage and bother repair jobs such as that done on the gearbox . This is why the car has been parked up the past 6 months as it is not fit for the road currently .The dealer in question I believe does import a lot of their stock from the uk.

just stuck in a rut between going to court and spending years fighting this or cutting my losses. Car is clean as a whistle on Cartell so I’m wondering if I got it repaired to a good standard and it was safe for the next user , would I get going rate for the car? People are saying get it Back driving and sell it on , but my conscience wouldn’t let me sell a lemon to somebody else after the ordeal I’ve had . But if I’ve got it to a quality standard , surely I’ve done enough ?

Ive learned my lesson for the next time with regards to bringing a mechanic to inspect . But buying a 25,000 euro car in a ‘DEALERSHIP’ in this day and age ,you would expect that you are getting a reliable car, obviously not the case.

Parkieman

The dealership in question has a big showroom and forecourt selling high end cars , and going by reviews on the dealership before I purchased the car , they had a glowing reviews and happy customers.

In relation to the independent motor assessor , this person is qualified to examine the structure of the car and write out a report on his findings. Also this person can be called to court to give evidence on their findings. The independent part means the have no ties to either party and basically say what they see.

celt262

Sounds like the dealer didn't do his due diligence on this motor.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507764#Comment_118507764

Doesn’t really matter as it can’t be proven in court. The car could have been fine when they sold it

Parkieman

@User1998 I agree it may be difficult to prove in court 100% agree with you . But at the end of the day , I didn’t cause this damage to the car and if you read the comments above the gearbox was spot welded to the chasis. If the car was being driven at speed when the gearbox came away from the chasis , it could have been a very different scenario. Luckily nobody was injured.

If it was the case I caused the damage myself I would have just claimed through my insurance (if they would have even paid out given the condition of the lemon I bought) ,yes my premium may be a bit higher every year but I wouldn’t have the headache of the past few months.

I stand to loose thousands here on resale value etc etc , and the attitude of the garage and other parties involved is just ‘get on with it’. If this was the attitude of everybody , nothing is going to change the state of the motor industry in this country. These cowboys need to be held accountable for the standard of cars they are selling to people.

ba_barabus

While the car was €25k was it priced cheaper than similar models at the time?

mickdw

Check with Audi. It could have a file as long as your arm there.

Certain parts need factory live connection for coding so only dealers and licenced independents can do that. Even cowboys may have had to bring it to Audi for some item of the repair.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118508086#Comment_118508086

I understand and its highly unlikely that you were the one who caused the damage, but I just don’t think it would hold up in court, after a year of driving it anything could have happened.

Small claims court will only award €2,000 if successful, otherwise you may end up spending thousands in legal fees if you go through a higher court

I think you should just get the car repaired if you can afford it. Although its an awful situation, a €5,000 repair on a €25,000 car isn’t the end of the world. You shouldn’t just let the car rot away for 6 months

GustavoFring

If you have the UK reg this site is good for showing some unrecorded stuff.

https://www.vcheck.uk/

Parkieman

@ba_barabus no asking price was in line with other examples of the same car with similar mileage , would have suspected something if it was too cheap

Parkieman

@mickdw that’s interesting , wouldn’t know a whole pile about cars as you have probably guessed. Definitely going to call Audi UK and see if there is anything they can come up with. Thanks for the advise

Parkieman

@User1998 im thinking starting to think that way myself. If €5000 got it to a very good standard , maybe I might get a year or two of driving out of it and not loose as much resale value down the line.

Parkieman

@GustavoFring thanks for that , have tried about 10 different sites similar to this to try find information. 1 more is worth a try

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507632#Comment_118507632

Is it a franchised Dealership?

Is it a SIMI Registered Dealership?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509185#Comment_118509185

Its very unlikely you’ll loose any resale value from doing the repair, (apart from the money it costs to repair it, obviously)

Parkieman

@anewme yes franchised dealership. And also a member of SIMI , not sure if they are going to do much to try resolve the issue. Dealer seems to have SIMI in their pocket , very disappointing

ba_barabus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509575#Comment_118509575

Have you spoken to the dealer principal (not the sales person) and then followed up with them in writing and also passed a copy to the franchise head office?

Parkieman

@ba_barabus yes have done the above and no joy unfortunately. Didn’t seem to bother them atall when I had my solicitor send a letter either , they more or less laughed.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509624#Comment_118509624

To be honest , if this goes to court, they will point out the fact you hadn’t observed any issues , yet had the car so long, and most importantly … the car had gone through an nct which it past and staff there did not spot any issues …and as u already stated … there’s no proof that u can provide that the damage was there when bought it …. If I was u I’d just try fix it up and get some use out of it for afew years

AyeGer

I don't know the law in this case, but it would appear to me a professional business should be on top of the cars they are selling. Or they should at least have insurance to cover issue like this that they may have missed. So this company basically sold you a damaged car and you as the buyer have to suck it up. To me that is not on.

Parkieman

@AyeGer thats the opinion I’m under myself. Some people would be looking for huge claims in court etc…

I contacted the garage looking for money back because of the condition of the car , I took into consideration that I had use of the car for 6/7 months so obviously there would be depreciation for my use of the car , which I believe is fair. Any innocent garage who made a genuine mistake would have tried to come to some solution by now , but these lads completely washed their hands without even viewing the condition of the car. Don’t know how they can still get away with this behaviour.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509575#Comment_118509575

SIMI are a representative and lobbying group for the motor trade. They are not a consumer organisation. By and large, they don't give a toss about you or any other car buyer.

As for the dealer being franchised (Audi?) get onto Audi ireland Customer Services (1800-227243) and ask for a manager (get their name and number for follow up calls). However, expect to be fobbed off given the background to this case.

Car99

I'm intrigued. Have you any pictures of where the gearbox was welded to the chassiss? I would have thought the gearbox casing is aluminium and the chassiss is steel .

fryup

for the gearbox to be damaged it must have got a right wallop

CreadanLady

Get a mechanic and/or body shop to repair the damage to a passable standard, and then put it on donedeal. Burner sim.

Henry Ford III

Gearbox would be bolted to the engine surely? Some have a gearbox mount also.

I don't think the garage have taken your complaint seriously at all OP. I'd be suing them if I were you.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509624#Comment_118509624

I used to work for Volkswagen Group Ireland and find it very difficult to believe that they "more or less laughed" at you. Are you *sure* you wrote to the distributor as well as the dealership? If not, do so immediately, they take this kind of thing extremely seriously, especially if you bought the car from an actual Audi dealership.

CreadanLady

Given the circumstances, the long time interval, and it having passed NCT in that time, a court case will be most unlikely to go in your favour.

If you take a case and loose, which is the most likely outcome, you will be looking at legal costs that will make a €5-6k repair look very cheap.

A properly done repair that isn't obviously detectable should not affect the re-sale value, because it won't show up on the car history check sites - they get their info from insurers and the revenue commissioners. You can then sell the car as is and keep your bloody mouth shut about the colourful history. If anyone asks why it was declared off the road, just say you were away working in England on a big contract for 6 months and now you want to upgrade again to a new A8.

Of course, you could always just fix it and drive it away yourself for years to come and in that case re-sale value doesn't matter.

Whatver you do don't be going around blabbering about the car and its issues to dealers, the NCT, the motor tax office, auto engineers, etc. You will shoot yourself in the foot at that.

Wise up here, don't be an idiot, use your brain and play this smart.