Court summons for no tv licence

foxy_j · 17-01-2022 1:46pm #1

So back in August a TV licence inspector called while I was working from home. I only answered as I was waiting on a package.

We don't have Virgin or sky etc so I told him that although we still have a TV set that we don't use. I also said we aren't here long and are moving soon. He said you'll probably be ok but can he take my details to show he'd visited the residence.

I didn't want to give him my name so I gave him a fake name as didn't fully believe him when he said we probably wouldn't need one.

A letter came in the post a while ago to get one in fake name which I ignored.

Today a registered letter was put through our letter box with a court summons in the fake name.

Should I ignore it or mark the letter that this person is no longer at this address and pop in a post box or what?

Thanks

endacl · 17-01-2022 1:50pm

Add another tangle to your mess?

Get down to the post office. Pay the fee. Take your license home. The court won’t let it lie.

MrStuffins · 17-01-2022 1:51pm

They've heard all the excuses OP!

punchdrunk · 17-01-2022 1:52pm

so you said in august you were leaving soon but half a year later you're still there? pretty obvious what needs to happen here!

Ash.J.Williams · 17-01-2022 1:55pm

Get the license to limit the trouble you’ve completely caused yourself

foxy_j · 17-01-2022 1:56pm

Yes I agree a mess but we are actually moving but it's been pushed out for another 6 months.

I was just wondering if there is anything they can really do seeing as the summons isn't in my name.

That person could have been here and now is gone. TV licence inspector is hardly going to remember what I look like.

silver2020 · 17-01-2022 1:57pm

Isn't it an offence to give a wrong name too?

Won't be difficult for them to find out the correct name and it would be interesting to see how a judge sees that.

Basically you could be hit at the higher range of fines for your stupidity

17-01-2022 2:04pm

Im not saying Im condoning it, but giving fake name can only work if you were leaving imo, I dont engage with unsolicited callers to the door, Im under no obligation to speak to them so I dont. I have a non functional monitor paperweight/ornament (old flatscreen tv with the inards removed as room without a tv/like item looks odd to me, tried to locate complete fakes as per ikea showroom but no luck) but it would be very easy for a tv licence inspector to say they saw a tv, so I just keep the curtains closed as I know they are an absolute shower and will say anything to get you stitched up, in this case, you have kinda helped them.

If you have no intention of leaving, and its a rental, get a licence in your own name and maybe you can ignore the summons? your call, but Id prefer that than going to court and admitting I gave a false name. If it's your own home?? I just advise not saying anythign to anyone you dont want to speak to.

Caranica · 17-01-2022 3:17pm

"If you have have a television, you must have a television licence". Do you not remember hearing/seeing those ads every single year of your life? I do.

You admitted you had a TV and admitted you didn't have a licence. You then lied to the inspector.

August was a long time ago, and you're still there? You need to sort this out. Oh and get a ring doorbell.

mondeoman72 · 17-01-2022 5:30pm

If they have a false name, surely it cannot go anywhere? What are they going to do? Summons fake name at 2 main street? How is that going ot work.

Sierra Oscar · 17-01-2022 5:32pm

The summons won't be able to be served on you if it's in the name of another person. In saying that, I'd sort out the TV licence if I were you. Especially if you are still residing at the address.

Conrad89 · 17-01-2022 5:45pm

I think at this stage after getting the summons (even though its to the wrong name), I'd sort out the TV licence if I were you since you will be living there for another six months. This can potentially escalate become a bigger pain than paying for the TV licence.

Not sure if it helps but if you decide to get a TV licence you can move it with you to the new address.

marklazarcovic · 17-01-2022 6:06pm

a registered letter needs to be signed by the person named on it,or a nominee,or someone who opens the door,and their name needs to be put on the scanner, legally,cross out the name on the letter,write NOT AT THIS ADDRESS on it,and either hand into a post office or pop into a an post post box, its not you named,ignore it.

billyhead · 17-01-2022 8:14pm

OP, Just by a TV licence. You have a TV so you have no excuses. Judges have heard all the excuses so when it does get to court you could be hit with a harsher penalty.

17-01-2022 8:19pm

Who signed for letter?

Who is summoned to court?

Who will debt collector pursue.

TheTruth89 · 18-01-2022 12:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489002#Comment_118489002

You ll be grand, its a TV license just go and get one in your own name.

18-01-2022 1:00am

Don't get a licence at this time if your name is not on the registered letter as it will be used as an admission of guilt in Court. The TV licence Inspector will say he spoke to the Householder, got their name from the Householder and determined they had no TV licence while in possession of a TV. Instead of the cost of a TV Licence you'll be paying for a Licence and a fine. A TV licence Inspector has no problems dragging you to Court amongst hundreds of others as it is just one day for him in Court when he was going to be attending anyhow. The usual source of Householder's name is from electoral register or other post going to household. When you get to Court it will be your word against theirs and they don't play by the rules(source: bitter personal experience).

If you want a license then purchase independently at a time of your choosing otherwise remove the TV from the household or remove the tuner/antenna compnent from the device if you feel up to it but most wouldn't be comfortable with that.

foxy_j · 18-01-2022 1:53am

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

So I'm thinking the best thing to do is get a licence in either myself or my husbands name.

I'm thinking of waiting a couple weeks so it doesn't look suspicious I bought one as soon as the summons arrived. The court date isn't til mid April.

Then there's the matter of the summons letter...no one signed for it, could be because of covid they don't ask for people to sign letters.

Will I mark not at this address or something along those lines aswell and pop it in the post box or just leave it altogether?

If I wait to get the licence for another couple of weeks then i'd have to wait to send the summons letter "not at this address" too. Which might look odd

Dempo1 · 18-01-2022 8:51am

I'm somewhat perplexed by this thread OP.

You clearly say 3 things occurred here.

A. You've given False Name

B. A registered letter was "Dropped" through your letterbox

B. Your moving shortly 🤔

So, point one, fair enough but not wise, however it is the license collectors responsibility to determine and prove who resides at any address, not the occupier.

Point 2, how is it possible a registered letter was "Dropped through your letter box", that's not how registered letters are delivered, they need to be signed for. Regardless, as your not named on it, it is irrelevant to you and has no legal standing in relation to you. The case will likely proceed and likely a fine issued to named person on the summons and in essence the fine is uncollectable.

Point 3, why on earth would you now purchase a TV license if your moving, that make no sense at all. By all means, consider getting one at new address.

In essence you can not change what's happened re giving false name, getting a TV license now doesn't change that. If your staying, get one, if not wait until you move to new address.

Some common issues to arise in court cases re summons for non payment of TV licenses is incorrect names, miss spelling of names, wrong address etc. Letters sent to the "Occupier" have no legal standing and a silly ploy by license inspectors to get a response and hopefully a name.

Andrea B. · 18-01-2022 9:01am

Aside from any of this there is the shame and public humiliation of going to court, as hammered in to us via radio and tv in the 80's.

That doorbell sound still resonates.

mondeoman72 · 18-01-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492873#Comment_118492873

Just because something was hammered into people in the 80's via tv adverts, does not make it right. If I saw someone was in court for no tv licence I would not be one bit bothered. RTE is not worth one cent.

18-01-2022 12:56pm

If they can not deliver registered post signed by you, you will receive a note asking you to collect a delivery from the local postoffice depot and then a member of staff in An Post will go out the back, collect the registered letter knowing exactly what it is, ask for identification and then watch you sign for the registered letter. Then you will not be able to avoid going to Court as the summons will have been served. I can't think of anything good which comes by registered post which you would receive unexpectedly, they're always bad news.

Beware one of those slips coming through your postbox in coming weeks.

Lenar3556 · 18-01-2022 3:56pm

Indeed that is how registered post is supposed to operate, but I have seen cases in the last couple of years where it was simply left in a postbox.

OP - If the television is not in use, I would suggest getting rid of it and leave it at that.

If it is in use or you plan to keep it, purchase a TV licence. It can be transferred to a future address if you subsequently move. (Although transferring it to the new address is a good idea, I don’t think there is any particular statutory requirement to do so.)

Modifying the television or removing the tuner/other elements of the TV such as to render it incapable of receiving a signal is unlikely to be an acceptable remedy as this could be subsequently be reversed.

As regards the court summons, I would be inclined to put it in the bin.

18-01-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492856#Comment_118492856

NOT CORRECT, regarding registered mail/parcels.

I have had deliveries either put through my letterbox or left on the doorstep for parcels that would not fit, defeats the purpose of paying for registered mail imo, but it does happen.

either way I did not sign for them, not because I declined, but because I wasn't present to sign for them, joke imo

Dempo1 · 18-01-2022 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118495178#Comment_118495178

Just to be very clear, we are talking about a summons and registered letter , not a package sent from Amazon. Registered letters HAVE to be signed for, by either the recipient or an assigned person on there behalf.

I'm fully aware of packages being left at door steps by couriers etc, this is completely irrelevant with regard to the service of a summons or receipt of a Registered letter, proof of signature or service of a summons is required.

HerrKuehn · 18-01-2022 4:42pm

Could you maybe fake the death of the fake person you created? Seems like it should be easy enough for you with your skills.

18-01-2022 4:46pm

If somebody who is in possession of a licence wants to mind your TV then it is out of your house and you are not breaking the law.

Caranica · 18-01-2022 4:58pm

There has been no signing for anything with An Post since Covid. Registered, parcels, whatever. A postman told me recently that he saves a load of time now that he doesn't have to wait for signatures.

@mondeoman2 you think the TV licence only goes to RTE you have a lot to learn.

Edit: apologies, should be @mondeoman72 but can't delete wrong tag

ggmat799 · 18-01-2022 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058228475/court-summons-for-no-tv-licence

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493877#Comment_118493877

FishOnABike · 18-01-2022 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118495485#Comment_118495485

"If you have a television you must have a television licence. " - the opposite also applies - if you don't have a television you don't have to have a television licence.

18-01-2022 5:44pm

if you turn up when a summons was incorrectly served you will be considered to have received the summons.

marklazarcovic · 18-01-2022 5:49pm

for a registered post the postie needs to knock and ask do you want the item,since covid, he/she then signs scanner in front of you on your behalf, other types of postage dont require such mkeasures,can be left at door/safe place since covid.

Kat1170 · 18-01-2022 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118495099#Comment_118495099

Nope, you have to inform them that you have no TV. Otherwise it is presumed that you do and that it is unlicensed.

Spook_ie · 18-01-2022 11:17pm

Are people sure it's a registered letter? The costs for a registered letter on An Post website say it's €8.70 for a 100g letter

I think that a summons for a failure to respond to a fcpn traffic offence can be served via ordinary post so why not a TV license?

Lenar3556 · 18-01-2022 11:33pm

That is not something which I addressed in the piece you quoted?

You are incorrect in any case.

There is no requirement to expressly notify An Post that you do not have a TV and there is no assumption made as to the presence of a TV at a given address.

An authorised officer of An Post may make a request of you to complete a statutory declaration stating whether there is or is not a television set at your address - it is an offence to fail to make such a declaration when requested to do so.

Lenar3556 · 18-01-2022 11:41pm

While I lawd your confidence in our national postal service, I am telling you that what you describe has not always been happening of late. There is a procedure whereby the postal worker has been directed to sign on the individuals behalf when the relevant item was delivered in person to the addressee, but I have found some postal workers have been more diligent as to seeking out the individual than others!

blackbox · 18-01-2022 11:49pm

Don't worry about moving.

If you buy a license now you will still be able to transfer it easily to your new address for no additional fee.

Not an excuse.

foxy_j · 19-01-2022 2:00pm

Yes I definitely think due to covid they are just putting registered letters through people's letter boxes. I'm sure I have received one previously like this in the last year.

Maybe it depends on the postal person.

It had a registered RL number on the front and two labels saying signature required.

I checked the tracking and it just says "delivered" no name or anything.

I would have refused the letter had the post person rang the bell and required a signature.

19-01-2022 2:45pm

Honestly you really have fcuked it hey. God it is true, you’re telling lies forever but the truth only once!!

The thing is, though, it’s not a case of each person needs a licence, it’s per household. Regardless of who’s name is on the summons, you live there, you have been since august, that’s a matter of fact & regardless as an occupant of the property, which has a tv you’re as liable to make sure there’s a licence as anyone else living there. I don’t think it’s gonna matter much who’s name is there because you’re still in the wrong one way or the other.

my advice is either

own up to it (not my first choice)
return the letter back marked as “no longer here” and buy a TV licence asap.

its a straightforward enough job to change your address, which isn’t super necessary anyway. It’s best to do so just cos they’ll send you reminders when it’s almost due for renewal & more importantly you won’t get a knock on the door of the new gaff cos the system will show your address as having a licence.

The funny part of that would be for however long at least is left on the licence when you leave (we’ll say 6 months) for that period if you didn’t change the address, whoever’s in the house now wont be bugged by the inspectors but you might be in the new gaff! they don’t just knock around random doors they are well aware before the first rap of the door if you have a licence or not based on the records, just there are the odd case where someone didn’t change the address which I guess is why they ask rather than demand you don’t have one.

It’s a fcuking joke in 2022 anyway, but I couldn’t be arsed with the hassle for the sake of €160 a year. Don’t agree with it whatsoever and if not for the Mrs and kids loving Netflix I wouldn’t have a TV since I rarely watch it.

Oh, yeah, it’s probably plainly obvious but uh.. don’t do that again. Like if you’re asked by an official body for your name dont BS them. As you’ve learned it can come back to bite you. The best you can hope for honestly is they don’t put 2+2 together and get; you’re a liar.

eldamo · 19-01-2022 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118495408#Comment_118495408

But sure,, then they wouldn't be able to watch it!🤓

BattleCorp1 · 19-01-2022 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497521#Comment_118497521

I've received three registered letters in the past two months.

I haven't been here any of the times when the postman called so each time he left a leaflet in my letterbox telling me that the registered letter will be available for me to collect in the Post Office. No need for the postman to be diligent and seek me out. He just left a note and I duly called to the post office each time and collected (and signed) for the registered letter there. At no point did the postman sign for the letter himself and throw it through my letterbox.

Lenar3556 · 20-01-2022 12:38am

I don’t doubt you. But that has not been happening consistently in my experience since the onset of the pandemic.

LillySV · 20-01-2022 12:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489002#Comment_118489002

Just say that said name was living there at time but has since moved out . You get letters for him from time to time but you just keep it to one side for him in case he contacts ye again looking for it … not opening it obviously …