What if Ireland had said yes to First past the post ?

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527419#Comment_118527419

Yes, it goes without saying that anything like that would require a referendum.

AllForIt

I just don't get this 'preference' idea.

On a low resolution level would you say I'd prefer a right wing TD and if not my second preference would be a Left Wing TD.

One either has a view and to my mind there is no such things as having an alternative view, that comes in second place.

I'd rather not vote at all if my views were not represented by any of the candidates.

I would be happy to let the biggest majority run things, if not an overall majority.

If it turns out okay then perhaps I'd need to rethink my views, if not then I was right to begin with.

My problem with PR is that the system seems to be inspired to give views equal weight, irrespective of how many people hold those views. Which is a very kind of Leftist idea, that all views need to be included and represented, minority views especially.

And this is how we end up with the Greens in government, despite the fact 97.2% of the populace did not vote for them.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533497#Comment_118533497

Couple of points.

First, you're not required to express a preference you haven't got. If, after you have voted 1, 2, 3 for the three candidates fielded by the "Free Icecream for AllForIt" party, you have no preference as between the remaining candidates, you are free to leave all the other spaces blank. But if you feel that, if your vote is not going to be effective to elect the "Free Icecream for AllForIt" party, you'd like it to elect the "Cheap Icecream for AllForIt" party, then you continue your preferences for that party. The key point to grasp is that you have only one vote and it will be effective for only one candidate; you are numbering the candidates in the order in which you would like it to be effective for them, and you leave out all the candidates for whom you would not like it to be effective.

As for the system being designed to give equal weight to all views, it is in fact intentionally designed to give - as nearly as practicable - equal weight to all votes. That will result in a diversity of views being represented if voters hold a diversity of views, which they usually do. But it doesn't result in all views being given equal weight; they are weighted according to how much support they have, which to a democrat seems like a no-brainer.

You may consider it outrageous that the Greens should be in government, despite 97.2% of the populace not having voted for them. But if your "happy to let the biggest vote-getter run things" rule were applied, SF would not only be in government; they would be exclusively in government, despite 75.5% of the population not having voted for them. We'd have a government made up of representatives who secured 24.5% of the vote, as opposed to the present reality, a government made up of representatives who secured 50.2% of the vote. Preferring the latter isn't "leftist"; it's centrist and democratic.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533497#Comment_118533497

As Peregrinus said, it has nothing to do with holding all views equally. I'm actually not even sure what that means to be honest. PR-STV apportions the seats roughly in line with their respective popularities amongst the electorate. What could be more democratic than that?

First Pass the Post is the real abomination. It completely distorts the vote, massively rewarding large parties and completely crushing smaller parties. Point in case is the UK general election of 2015:

• In Scotland, the SNP got 50.0% of the votes cast but ended up with 94.9% of the seats
• In England, UKIP got 14.1% of the votes cast and ended up with 0.2% of the seats

Now leave aside whatever personal feelings you have for those 2 parties and ask yourself is it a fair system where the SNP had three times as much of the vote share in their country as UKIP did in theirs but ended up with 475 times as much of the seat share?

Ballycommon Mast

Again a lot of people don't seem to understand that you can just vote no 1 to your preferred candidate, put your ballot paper in the box and leave without going 2,3,4... Has CSPE class failed ?