Need advice returning a car

EnemyDave

I bought a used car from a dealer in Louth. Did the whole sale/deal online due to covid. I live in Kerry myself and the car was delivered without issue.

The car came with 3 months warranty on the engine and gear box however after 1 week of driving it to work I had a breakdown and had to replace the battery out of my own pocket. Fast forward a month later and the car has developed a loud noise from the engine after driving it for 15 mins(never an issue when it starts).

I have basically lost all confidence in the car and emailed the dealer saying I would like to return it. His response was that he can repair it free of charge at their garage and that there are no returns or refunds. I don't have full confidence the car can make the journey without issue.

What are my options in this situation? Any help is appreciated.

Neilw

A battery can die at any time, it’s a wear and tear item so forget about that.

So you’ve had one breakdown, which isn’t a breakdown but a noise and you’ve lost confidence?

Theres zero chance of returning the car, the seller has offered to repair it, let him fix it and move on.

EnemyDave

Settle down there. A depleted battery that strands me in the middle of nowhere 1 week after purchase is something to make me lose confidence in. The noise is a grinding sound, louder than the engine and stops when I disengage the engine. The dealer is very far away and I am afraid the journey will do further damage.

bazz26

A battery is a wear and tear item which as stated can fail at any time. However if the dealer were local I'd expect them to replace it if it failed just a week after buying the car. The fact the dealer is at the other end of the country it would probably cost the same to replace the battery yourself as it would to pay for fuel to drive up and back to them to do it.

The other issue, the dealer has offered to look and fix it if you bring the car to them. While the dealer is at the other end of the country to you some dealers might offer to get a local garage to fix the problem and they cover the cost. However they are not obliged to do that. I really don't see how you would have grounds to return the car at this point when the dealer has not been given the opportunity to address the issue.

MakersMark

I had Nissan replace my 2017 Navara battery under warranty in 2019 when it went flat.

They actually volunteered to replace it as I had mistakenly assumed it wasn't covered.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475794#Comment_118475794

You asked for advice and got an honest opinion. You say "settle down there"?

You're in a bad position, I feel for you. Best thing is to pay for a tow truck to take the car back for repairs. The dealer might pay for the tow but it's doubtful. Neilw is right though, there's not a chance they'll take the car back and give you your money back.

How old is the car?

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476399#Comment_118476399

That's a different scenario to the OP though. Your car was only 2 years old and Nissan covered it under their manufacturer's warranty. The OP bought a used car with a 3 month warranty. We don't know how old the OP's car or battery are plus most 3 month used car warranties generally only cover the engine and gearbox.

EnemyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476477#Comment_118476477

Poor choice of words of my behalf. His opinion seemed overly negative and wasn't exactly constructive and he questioned why I would have little confidence in a vehicle that broke down a week after purchase. Car is 9 years old.

The dealer isn't being helpful he's instructing me to return the vehicle to Louth which would be fine but he's now saying it may take several days and not offering a temporary replacement.

I've asked if he can source a local mechanic and he said no to that too. It seems like he's trying to make it as difficult as possible.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477035#Comment_118477035

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/cars/buying_a_used_car.html

This should guide you and it looks like you could have an argument that the garage should be accomodating you.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477163#Comment_118477163

I don’t have much confidence in citizensinfo on this one, from the link:

• Get the necessary documents. You must be given a National Car Test (NCT) Certificate (if the car is over 4 years old) and Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) Certificate (if the car is imported). Ask for the car’s service book and the handbook or manual.

Completely untrue, so as said, I wouldn’t be too confident in whatever else they’re saying.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477035#Comment_118477035

He was honest and truthful. It just isn't what you wanted to hear.

I genuinely feel for you, but it's an old car and you made a purchase miles from where you live, probably because of a low price. There's no other advice available other than taking to a local mechanic to try and sort the car out or bringing it back to Louth on a tow truck.

Hope you get sorted. Not a good start to the new year, very frustrating.

(try and get the dealer to collect it, you never know, he might agree)

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477183#Comment_118477183

From the link -

'If you buy a used car from a trader (a garage or car dealer), you have the same rights under consumer protection legislation as when buying a new car.

This includes the right to expect the car to be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for any stated purpose. These rights are set out in the Sale of Goods and Associated Guarantees Act 1980. If you find something wrong with the car after you bought it, you have the right to ask the seller to put the problem right (for example by repairing or replacing the car or refunding your money).'

Anything else is irrelevant. The Sales of Goods act applies here.

silver2020

The op bought without any checks whatsoever and says it was because of covid.

Seriously?

The ban on travel is long gone.

That you bought online a 9 year old car without doing even a basic check is just laughable.

And you think you have rights to get a refund?

No entitlement to refund. Yes you do have to return to point of purchase for any warranty repair - not their fault that you are a Kerryman

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477707#Comment_118477707

No need to insult the OP because of your ignorance... the dealer has obligations to the OP under the Sale of Goods act.

Wildly Boaring

Dealer has the obligation to repair it.

No obligation to provide trandport for repair.

And even at that if it's a wearing part dealer could start moaning about repair.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478245#Comment_118478245

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/shopping/repairs_replacements_and_refunds.html

'The seller should complete any repair or replacement within a reasonable time, and without significant inconvenience to you.'

The Sales of Goods act disagrees with you.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478284#Comment_118478284

Its still up to the OP to get the car back to the dealer to allow them the opportunity to provide the first of the three R's

Mr Burny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475794#Comment_118475794

You sound very naive. Are you a teenager and this is your first car perhaps?

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478422#Comment_118478422

In case you didn't see it the first time, this is the important part of that line 'and without significant inconvenience to you.'

Delivering the car to Louth from Kerry is a significant inconvenience. Someone from the dealer delivered the car to him... they can pick it up on that basis.

It's amazing how little people know about their rights and the sale of goods act... the OP mentioned a 3 month guarantee... the dealer actually has to stand over the car for 6 months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478593#Comment_118478593

Absolute poppycock.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478600#Comment_118478600

Is it now? Another person who doesn't know their rights and loves to display their ignorance.

Casati

OP you need to get a local mechanic to check the car and diagnose the noise and what the fix would be, indeed if any fix is needed, for all we know the noise could be a plastic bag caught under the car.

You have no right to return the car and seek a refund unless the dealer has been given multiple chances to first attempt a repair, (and that’s assuming a repair is needed). The dealer has zero responsibility to collect the car from you or indeed to offer you a replacement while it is being fixed.

If you simply don’t like the car anymore you have the option to sell it, in the current market values of old cars are rising so you might even make a profit. Next time I suggest you shop local and support Kerry business that will be easier to access post sale for service and repair.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478284#Comment_118478284

it doesn't say inconvenience it says significant inconvenience

If it was not significant enough inconvenience for the OP to purchase at said garage then the OP needs return to said garage.

Garage to repair.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478808#Comment_118478808

It's a significant inconvenience to return a car to a dealer in Louth when the OP lives in Kerry. The car was delievered to him in the first place and on that account arrangements should be made by the seller to have the car returned for repair. The seller in this case cannot decide to ignore the Sales of Goods act because it doesn't suit them.

colm_mcm

Oh lord, save us from SOGA lawyers!

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479002#Comment_118479002

No wonder the car industry has such a terrible reputation, the ignorance on this thread is unbelievable.

mankteln

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478917#Comment_118478917

The return isn't part of the repair though is it? That link doesn't say anything of that sort. The significant inconvenience would be something related to the actual repair itself, like them delaying accepting the car or them not letting him drop it off once he's brought it up.

The only thing worse than people not knowing their consumer rights is people who think they know them (and inevitably are found roaring and shouting at customer service managers in retail stores across Ireland).

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479002#Comment_118479002

SOGA? Googled but didn't find.

road_high

These online purchases for used cars are simply a terrible idea- you’re definitely not the first on here the past year or so with major problems buying a car this way.

Any Covid related travel restrictions are long since gone so not really sure why you hadn’t the car inspected personally or by a third party. Buying a car “blind” like this is just nuts. Can’t get my head around it

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481745#Comment_118481745

Sale of Goods Act*. The internet is full of people who don’t understand it offering advice.

Misinterpreting ”not fit for it’s normal purpose” is a favourite.

(* might as well add before it’s pointed out that I do know the current name for this act!)

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479013#Comment_118479013

Agreed. Seems to be one v ignorant person removed from reality of industry

Casati

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478593#Comment_118478593

You're funny.

If I bought, lets say a TV from a retailer in Kerry and had it delivered by them to Louth, should a fault arise within the warranty period I would have to return the TV to Kerry, the inconvenience clause does not apply to getting the item back to where it was purchased to be repaired, it is only applicable to the actual repair process.

EnemyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478425#Comment_118478425

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477707#Comment_118477707

I am very naive and it is my 2nd(1st car in Ireland) car so lots to learn! @silver2020 You should probably reframe from trying to insult people based on where they are from. I'm not actually from Kerry. I did basic checks upon accepting delivery of the vehicle.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478917#Comment_118478917

Thanks for your help, I was exactly looking for my rights based on the Sales of Goods act. I did manage to get legal advice which was very similar to your point. I have taken it to a local mechanic to get the issue diagnosed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481822#Comment_118481822

I know it's my fault for buying a vehicle in Louth but I was on a tight budget due to a new baby. I fully inspected the vehicle when it was delivered and even had a family friend check it. I don't know where your getting the idea that this was a blind sale.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496290#Comment_118496290

I'm glad you're getting it sorted... I wouldn't be apologetic to anyone here... all you were looking for was advice and all you got was mostly ignorance. Best of luck with getting it sorted.

road_high

It may have been inspected by you and a friend on delivery but the key question is how thorough that inspection was and what did it show??

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496440#Comment_118496440

The OP is doing what he was advised.

Get diagnosed locally.

I believe you had the garage in Louth recieving a returned car??

EnemyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496515#Comment_118496515

It was quite thorough(I'm hopeless but ran through a guide on youtube as I was doing it), delivery driver was actually pretty patient with us as we were upwards of 45mins at it. There were a couple of issues that the dealer corrected after I got on to him, no spare tyre and no owner's manual. There were no obvious issues with the engine. Strangely enough, it's turning out to be an intermittent fault as when I drove it to the local mechanic there were no issues or sound. If he gives it the all-clear for the journey I may just chance my arm at driving it up to Louth.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496551#Comment_118496551

He doesn't have to get it diagnosed locally but obviously the dealer is ignorant to his obligations under the Sales of Goods Act ... much like many here.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496713#Comment_118496713

Most here said the dealer has to repair not take a return.

And to get it to Louth for repair or get diagnosed locally and report that to dealer for repair.

OP now getting diagnosed and if possible driving it to Louth.

So probably repair and no tow truck by garage as you recommend.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478284#Comment_118478284

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496758#Comment_118496758

It's amazing I have to point out my original post to you a second time.

EnemyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496758#Comment_118496758

The point is the dealer is making it as difficult as possible for the repair to even take place.

I would have to incur costs for him to honor the warranty.

db

I had a similar issue a few years ago. I bought a car about 4 hours away (I did check it first) and a few days after I got it, it had a problem. I contacted the dealer where I bought it who asked me to bring it to a local mechanic to diagnose. He found that it needed quite an extensive repair and wasn't happy to do it so the dealer collected the car, repaired it and returned it back to me.

When you can't find the car you are looking for locally you are taking a big risk buying at a distance.

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496782#Comment_118496782

If you do end up doing this... make sure to retain all receipts of your costs & then bring him to the small claims court afterwards citing the Sales of Goods Act. On the assumption you will win (you will) & if the dealer doesn't play ball, pass it over to the Sheriff to enforce.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496772#Comment_118496772

The opening post to the thread was a request to return a car as the poster had "lost all confidence in it".

The dealer had agreed to repair for free.

So nothing has changed........

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496884#Comment_118496884

The dealer agreed to repair however this would be a 'significant inconvenience' to the OP on the basis that the car would have to be drove from Kerry to Louth to carry out the repair. This has been explained more than once to you and others but look, believe what you want. I know the law & my rights.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496928#Comment_118496928

The OP is driving the car to Louth.....

FromADistance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496944#Comment_118496944

Because the dealer won't pay for the car to be towed back. Have you read anything the OP has said?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496928#Comment_118496928

So if you buy faulty goods online and the company doesn’t offer free returns, can you take them to the small claims court?

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see how this is much different. The dealer has offered to fix the car. Its not the dealers fault that OP lives so far away, and they aren’t obliged to outsource the work to a local garage, or collect and re deliver the car for the repair. Its up to OP to arrange the return of the car, similar to if you bought any other goods online. Yes some retailers offer free returns but they are not obliged to.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496928#Comment_118496928

I'm going to take a wild guess that you are actually not a lawyer.

The dealer can equally argue that the customer understood the implications of buying it from so far away. If he was only 1 km away from the garage there wouldn't be any expectation that the dealer is responsible for going and picking the car up.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497911#Comment_118497911

Taken From Irish Consumer Rights Webpage for online purchases

"You may have to pay for the cost of returning the item to the trader, but if it is proven that there is a fault and that this fault was not caused by you, then the trader should reimburse this return shipping cost."

So the initial return costs to be covered by the OP and if the goods are really faulty, then yes, return shipment/transport costs should be covered by the dealer.

Question arises, if the dealer says no fault found and the OP has already paid for transport, but this is why its best to get a local assessment done first.