Elvis Costello asks radio stations not to play Oliver's Army

Wouldn't want to be a wh1te ni99er in Johannesburg nowadays anyhow.. reckon it's gotten a lot worse than when Elvis penned his classic choone..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466304#Comment_118466304

That's as may be E, but if, as Elvis did sing in song mentioned "you're out of luck, you're out of work, we could send you to Johannesburg" , with the Irish being the white ####**# referenced in t'lyrics 😊

#Damn Boards - where's the 'multiquote' function gone 😒

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467298#Comment_118467298

But don't you think we should have a universal rule for everybody, black or white? Either everyone gets to say it (which by the way would completely strip away it's power to offend) or nobody gets to use it. THe way Tottenham fans describe themselves proudly as "Yids" and "Yid Army" shows that what was once a slur can be turned into a badge of honour.

magicbastarder

no, i don't think it works like that. even your own example is not a good analogy; in that it's a name they're using to call themselves, rather than a name they're using to call others.

Q: how many potatoes does it take to kill an irishman?

A: none.

it's not the same, me as an irish person telling that joke, as it would be someone english telling that joke. in the same way there's a hell of a difference between a gay man saying 'i'm a ******' vs. me (a straight person) saying to a gay man 'you're a ******'.

or another way to phrase it; punching up and punching down are qualitatively different, even if the same boxing gloves are used.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465542#Comment_118465542

And that's the problem. It was about Northern Ireland. It's blanket censorship applied everywhere. And thanks to AI it'll be done with even less thinking in future.

"Because when I fall under a bus, they'll play She, Good Year for the Roses and Oliver's Army," he said. "I'll die, and they will celebrate my death with two songs I didn't write. What does that tell you?"

Just stuck on his greatest hits.. (The Angels Wanna Wear My) Red Shoes first up 😊 Plenty of good songs he has... Wouldn't have 'She' in the top 10 even.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466669#Comment_118466669

He still gets pretty heavy play on stations, such is his status among song writers

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468395#Comment_118468395

Definitely not. It is kind of ironic though, that for one of the very best songwriters of his generation some of his most well know songs would be cover versions, see also What’s So Funny Bout Peace Love and Understanding, a Nick Lowe song. Between 78 and the mid 80’s there were very few who could even come close to Elvis as a songwriter. Albums like This Years Model, Trust, Imperial Bedroom and King of America are just full of fantastic songs.

the lyrics of Oliver’s Army, for those who don’t know:

Dont start me talking, I could talk all night

My mind goes sleepwalking, while I’m putting the world to rights

called careers information, have you got yourself an occupation

Olivers army is here to stay, Oliver’s army are on their way, and I would rather be anywhere else by here today

There was a checkpoint Charlie, he didn’t crack a smile

But it’s no laughing party when you’ve been on the murder mile

Only takes one itchy trigger, one more widow one less white ****

Hong Kong is up for grabs, London is full of Arabs, we could be in Palestine, or overrun by the Chinese line, with the boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne

But there’s no danger, it’s a professional career,

Oh it could be arranged with just a word in Mr Churchill’s ear

If you’re out of luck or out of work, we could send you to Johannesburg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468513#Comment_118468513

That very song I'm listening to now 😁 'Track' #8

HalloweenJack

There's a Patti Smith song called Rock N Roll N... which I'm surprised hasn't been dragged up. On my phone so can't link but her argument, according to Wikipedia, doesn't sound like it'd hold up.

As for rap music, the context is important and there have been complaints about homophobia and misogyny. I do think the tide is turning in that respect.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468908#Comment_118468908

Wouldnt hold up now but was fine in the 70s.

Should that song be cancelled too?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469034#Comment_118469034

It's always been controversial because of the use of the word and has rarely if ever had mainstream airplay. Also an excellent songwriter, like many of her songs it's got some strong and often powerful lyrics in it. For her the N word means a rebellious and honourable outsider and includes many marginal groups and herself but there's a whole other argument in that. It's a cracking song and her own favourite!

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468513#Comment_118468513

It’s a good song. As I said in the OP, I really just felt this jarred with another of his songs that I found compelling.

”Some of my friends sit around every evening

And they worry about the times ahead

But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference

And the promise of an early bed

You either shut up or get cut up, they don't wanna hear about it

It's only inches on the reel-to-reel

And the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools

Tryin' to anesthetize the way that you feel

Radio is a sound salvation

Radio is cleaning up the nation

They say you better listen to the voice of reason

But they don't give you any choice 'cause they think that it's treason

So you had better do as you are told

You better listen to the radio”

Guess he’s going for the early bed.

fryup

never knew it was about the troubles until i read this thread

you learn something new everyday as they say😶

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467021#Comment_118467021

Rte radio one played Kanye's Goldigger om a morning slot.. n words and all

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470325#Comment_118470325

well that went right over your head

"You either shut up or get cut up, they don't wanna hear about it

It's only inches on the reel-to-reel"

These radio guys don't care about the music which is only "inches of tape on the reel-to-reel", you either don't say what they find objectionable or they bleep or cut it out

He doesn't want them to do that to his song so he'd rather they just don't play it on the radio

Incidentally he got banned from NBC in the states for years for playing Radio Radio on Saturday Night Live, which ironically illustrated the point he was making very well indeed

Strumms

He’s an English dude, who lives in Ireland, married to an Irish lady, his godmother, is Irish…he’s performed all around the world… he has Irish ancestry one of his grandparents was Irish…and he’s performed with Allen Toussaint, Jimmy cliff and a shîtload of artists of differing ethnicities, so….

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118471873#Comment_118471873

Eh, he doesn’t live in Ireland anymore, and he is divorced/split up from Cait O’Riordan for a good many years now. His wife now is the Canadian pianist and singer Diana Krall.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118471802#Comment_118471802

Indeed, that's a fair point. (I don't even mind you being a bit rude in making it.)

At the same time, it is worth simply noticing that the action is happening. Control of public debate is still very much an issue - with the pandemic raising a slate of issues, too.

When I read that story, the feeling I got was he was chiefly saying "why bother", in a context where he likely did bother at some level when he played "Radio Radio" on SNL. Where, if I understand correctly, his banning was more over the disruption to the show's operations by his departure from the planned performance.

Anyway, I thought it worth reflecting on for a moment.

Hotblack Desiato

That was a bit rude alright. Sorry about that.

ceegee

Cant believe people can argue that the phrase "white n****r" isn't racist towards black people. While it was aimed at Irish people, the whole point of the insult is that you're equating someone to a black person to degrade them.

(None of the above is to say that I think Costello, or his use of the phrase, is racist.)

AllGunsBlazing

Thought provoking song and line. Aptly summed up the way Irish Catholics in the north were viewed by British soldiers.

fryup

by some British soldiers not all

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476975#Comment_118476975

 No. The whole point of the insult is that RACISTS equate someone to a black person to degrade them.

Hotblack Desiato

Costello's father served in the British Army and was called a W-N by some due to being either Irish (parents), catholic or both...

magicbastarder

it was his grandfather who was called that, not his father.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477324#Comment_118477324

I thought it was about the derogatory way , people of Irish background, who volunteered to fight in WW were referred to.

The Commitments , has some sort of similar reference to the Irish. Will we have to bleep it out also.

Hotblack Desiato

If you think The Commitments is no longer PC... I give you The Snapper. "That was A1, Sharon" 😳 underage female raped on the bonnet of a Fiat. But it was all good family fun at the time, provided everyone overlooked THAT bit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118477972#Comment_118477972

Commitments just says blacks. Should be ok.

vriesmays

How many rap tunes on the radio with the n word.

trashcan

I’m completely against the idea that any word is just out of bounds. I know we don’t seem to do context anymore, but it really is everything. There is a huge difference between calling or referring to someone as the N word, and using it in what I would call a factual context. For example, if I type that the word **** is used by racists as a derogatory term for black people, I know that Boards.ie will censor the N word, despite the fact that I haven’t used it to express a racist view.

tdf7187

Costello is a coward. One of his few decent songs and he's now petitioning radio stations to ban it to appease the woke police.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118465872#Comment_118465872

The song is a brutal critique of the British military establishment and class system. It's plain weird that anyone on the left would seek to ban it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466113#Comment_118466113

What song was it?

magicbastarder

I think it was called something like 'the right to rule our destiny'. My uncle would only have been a teenager in the sixties though.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478370#Comment_118478370

Don’t think she was underage and not sure it was rape either, both drunk and if I remember right she said something about I need a man or something like that.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481006#Comment_118481006

He’s made his money out of it though. He gives not one fûck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479979#Comment_118479979

most… the genre is completely indulgent in violent, misogynistic, intimidatory crap and indeed racism itself…

but they get a hall pass…because…. Well because they just do…

https://www.xxlmag.com/rap-lyrics-violent/

if a rock / indie or trad band released anything in the same vein as this ….^^^ cancelled, arrested, stoned to death probably…

so what exactly is Elvis worried about here ?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481023#Comment_118481023

its a great song , love it and like a lot of Elvis Costellos stuff , the new WOKE left are a fanatically puritanical bunch

magicbastarder

seriously, the 'WOKE' nonsense wears thin quickly. he has not apologised for the song. he has stated that bleeping it makes it sound worse (so you could easily argue that his stance is that it shouldn't be censored), and that he's sick of explaining context to people who - presumably wilfully - misread the intention of the lyrics.

much as you're wilfully misreading his intent.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481123#Comment_118481123

i did not think she was underage either. She was 20 as far as I can remember and drunk as a skunk.

It was still a bit shocking as he was a real aulfella, same age group as her Da.

vriesmays

How many people under 40 listen to his music.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479979#Comment_118479979

at least seventeen million of them...

magicbastarder

i had 8radio on out in the shed, and they played this; uncensored.

also worth noting that on his official youtube channel, the song is still available, uncensored.

boardise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466095#Comment_118466095

Ooh , didn't know that. I thought it was '^^^^^^' . 😮

boardise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466756#Comment_118466756

But he wouldn't be taking any action if the thought police of the totalitarian left were not on the rampage in all political and artistic domains.

N'est-ce pas ?

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479979#Comment_118479979

Pretty much none, barring a mistake where a DJ accidentally plays an uncensored version instead of a radio edit.

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481294#Comment_118481294

The majority of those songs don't get played on the radio, those that do are mostly heavily censored or have alternative lyrics.

There are plenty of rock, trad and country songs which contain violence and nobody is cancelling anybody. Weila waile by the Dubliners has a baby getting stabbed to death and nobody is looking for it to be banned.

Cinema and literature are full of graphic violence, why should rap music not be allowed to contain it too?

magicbastarder

i guess the difference is generally that with cinema and literature, the audience goes looking for it, and as a result would be far more likely to be attuned to the context. but with radio, you don't get to choose the songs played, so there's more scope for misinterpretation.

It's probably the most emotive line in the song because of the context.

I see where he's coming from asking them not to play it. It seems so obvious to me that the words used are not intended that way some want to portray it. I mean it's an anti war song for God sake.