British soldier describes the technique of using children as human shields in Ireland

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440471#Comment_118440471

Great point, they joined one of the most powerful armies in the world and they were fighting against a tiny guerilla army yet there are people on here justifying using children as human shields to avoid combat with a tiny guerilla force who were at a strong disadvantage to the might of the British army.

No different to Bin Laden hiding behind his wife when the yanks got him or all the ''terrorist'' groups like Hamas or the taliban and certain armies in the middle east which are constantly demonised for doing the same thing, at least they generally do it to avoid drone strikes and fighting a far superior army, the Brits had no justification for dóing it.

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439034#Comment_118439034

That's a good point.

Most of the casualties in those early urban street battles between the Brits, Republicans & Loyalists were civilians caught up in the crossfire between the opposing sides, so hiding behind civilians clearly was as risky it sounds.

Some examples

Falls Curfew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falls_Curfew 4 civilians killed 60 civilians wounded

Operation Demetrius (internment raids) - "Between 9 and 11 August, 24 people were killed or fatally wounded: 20 civilians (14 Catholics, 6 Protestants), two members of the Provisional IRA (shot dead by the British Army), and two members of the British Army (shot dead by the Provisional IRA). Of the civilians killed, 17 were shot by the British Army and the other three were killed by unknown attackers." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius

Battle at Springmartin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_at_Springmartin "Result:7 dead (including 5 civilians), at least 66 injured"

Battle of Lenadoon, after the IRA/British truce of 1972 broke down - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lenadoon "Result: Indecisive: End between Provisional IRA & British Army ceasefire, Both sides take heavy losses, Heavy civilian casualties, Springhill Massacre, 28 people killed in total including civilian, army & paramilitary"

New Lodge massacre - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Lodge_Six_shooting "Deaths 6 (4 civilians and 2 Provisional IRA Volunteers) Injured: 9, Perpetrators: British Army, UDA, suspicion collusion"

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440449#Comment_118440449

Yes it makes sense to me why Hamas would be employing the same tactic. That situation is maybe slightly different because I think for many soldiers it is a mindset of “do your round and get out alive”.

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440613#Comment_118440613

Fair enough I guess. So you'd be fine with a British soldier using your child as human shield from the IRA, or vice-versa a IRA Volunteer using your child to hide behind say the SAS? Maybe not emotional "fine" but you'd be fine with the logic of it?

Yes, the situation is different as Gaza is so over crowed & it has such a high population of children it's hard to stand away from them even if you want to. As David Cameron the former British Tory Prime Minister said it's the world's largest open air prison.

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440571#Comment_118440571

Yes, and the Post-WW2 British Army already had a reputation for brutality from it's incursions in Kenya, Malaya, Aden, Cyprus & Egypt.

From the Mau Mau Uprising for example

"We knew the slow method of torture [at the Mau Mau Investigation Center] was worse than anything we could do. Special Branch there had a way of slowly electrocuting a Kuke—they'd rough up one for days. Once I went personally to drop off one gang member who needed special treatment. I stayed for a few hours to help the boys out, softening him up. Things got a little out of hand. By the time I cut his balls off, he had no ears, and his eyeball, the right one, I think, was hanging out of its socket. Too bad, he died before we got much out of him.[217]

One settler's description of British interrogation. The extent to which such accounts can be taken at face value has been questioned"

Yep, once someones balls, eyes & ears are gone I think it's safe to say things got a "little" out of hand.

I mean The Troubles were awful, but really it was a walk in the park to what happened in 3rd world countries. I have no doubt if Ireland was off the coast of West Africa instead of West Europe then the British Army would have run amok, every Sunday would have been a Bloody Sunday. We were lucky we had support from Irish-America including a number of Kennedy's & supporters from the left in Britain.

My mother witnessed first hand the British Army in Strabane, 1971 shooting a deaf mute in the back because he wouldn't obey their commands (obviously he couldn't), things like that happened a lot during the 1970 -72 period, but after the negative media over Bloody Sunday they were forced into holding back, and by 1976 the UDR & RUC were pushed on to the front line instead with the Ulsterisation policy.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440663#Comment_118440663

I don’t have children so I cannot really answer your question.

The way I see it is a practice that avoids open gun fire at that time, it is nothing more. If that what works then so be it.

Gaza is a mess and would not be tolerated in such form if other nations were involved in the conflict, but I don’t want to derail the threat.

El Tarangu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440230#Comment_118440230

Righto.

I assume that you take a similarly sanguine view on dead Bloody Sunday protestors - "collateral damage", "c'est la guerre", etc.

mikethecop

proxy bombs the heroic provos fav . even taught other terrorists how to use innocent people to murder for them

Proxy bomb - Wikipedia

nice to see all yall shinnerbots outside of current affairs and politics lol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441017#Comment_118441017

Would collatoral damage not indicate people caught up in an attack on opposing side

It seems perplexing to try goad people into describing someone holding a gun at hip-height and shooting into crowds of civilians as collatoral damage?

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441043#Comment_118441043

More whataboutery & derailing the thread.

Go over the whole thread & quote for me were anybody said Proxy Bombs are fine to use in war & I'll send you £1,000 through paypal.

Start a thread about Proxy bombing nobody will defend the action. And why stop at that, bring up Bloody Friday, Claudy, La Mon, Fish Shop etc...

Start a thread about human shields, Blueshirts are out numbers defending it, derailing it & trying to make people think about other horrible actions. What did you make of the guy in Kenya who got his balls & ears cut off & his eyes gauged out? It the would make the Gestapo blush.

Harryd225

True, no one can deny the IRA done some things that were undeniably wrong and unjustifiable but just like any conflict, all sides do bad things that cannot be justified, that does not take away that the people of Ireland had the right to wage war against the occupation of our country.

And before anyone says we were not occupied, Northern Ireland was at the time of the conflict up until 1998 disputed territory claimed by both Britain and the Republic of Ireland.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441595#Comment_118441595

What did you make of the guy in Kenya who got his balls & ears cut off & his eyes gouged out?

Yeah, a long way from the Five Techniques they used on the Hooded Men.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441799#Comment_118441799

The story and outrage about the hooded men is only so popular because that torture was signed off on at the highest level of the British government and 100% state sanctioned torture, far worse torture went on in Castlereagh interrogation centre also known as ''the torture centre'' which wasn't exactly signed off on but everyone knew it was going on and allowed it to by turning a blind eye, one suspect died after being tortured.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/castlereagh-holding-centre-1823375-Jan2015/%3famp=1

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441595#Comment_118441595

lol you hit every provo parody there is there . ,

lol at paying some one to post on boards though

marieholmfan

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441798#Comment_118441798

And at various stages during the conflict parts of Northern Ireland practically seceded from state control. Mainly border areas like Free Derry, Newry & South Armagh. Merlyn Reese considered seceded south Armagh to the south, but was afraid the Dublin government would not want it, which is very strange having it in their constitution that south Armagh & the rest of the six counties is part of the national territory yet they want, so why not just remove articles 2 & 3 from the constitution in the 70's. Harold Wilson on the advise of MP David James, proposed swapping south Armagh for parts of north Monaghan, again Dublin didn't want it.

And would say the conflict ended in 1998 as well, at least with main the paramilitaries & guerrillas from both the Republican & Loyalist sides. After the revulsion over Omagh & the 3 boy little boys burned to death by a UVF firebomb. It was clear, nobody with sense would support a armed conflict anymore, although a year later the post-GFA paramilitaries re-started their campaigns. The RIRA, CIRA & ONH plus the loyalist ones the Orange Volunteers (not the 70's group with the same name) the Red Hand Defenders (not to be confused with Red Hand Commandos of the 70's), the RUFF, & the LVF. The Dissident Loyalist campaign killed 25 & injured 19. The Dissident Republican campaign (so far) has killed 56 people & injured around 350. Such a waste of time & life.

BlondeBombShell

The brits made the PIRA.

BlondeBombShell

The ruc were dirty rotten scumbags giving information to loyalist terrorists. The politicians here, Westminster to the dogs in the street.

BlondeBombShell

The brutally against the irish men, women and children was inhuman.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118435176#Comment_118435176

https://youtu.be/nwkEEqXT3uQ?si=xxCs_LvqXE1MFvYi

Great stand-up

Especially the awkward clapping 😂

BlondeBombShell

If the protestant people had treated their Catholic neighbours as equals there wouldn't have been a war.

FrancieBrady

I think it is without doubt that it was policy of the British to use the civilian population for protection from the start. It's no accident that most of their border checkpoints were built right next to housing when there was plenty of open ground they could have used.

Aughnacloy was right beside a row of houses, while this one near me was too. You can see the remnants of it here. The green shed was part of the installation. Those houses are replacements for a farmhouse that was practically in the road checkpoint.

It is all gone now, with another new house where the mound of gravel is.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293553#Comment_121293553

I wouldn't say protestant as such even though they were , more a specific branch of protestant maybe, unionist loons

Manach

Mod Note:

@ BlondeBombShell your posts and reviving an old thread fall below History forum standards, which is to discuss history and not re-fight it. Please review the forum charter and do not post on this thread again.

Comment:

Nekarsulm

If You read "Soldier of the Queen" by Bernard O'Mahony, you will see that giving out sweets to children was a favoured activity, as it kept a bunch of kids around each brick, and made attacks a lot less likely.

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293553#Comment_121293553

Catholics could have treated the Protestants better to. Like, when dozens of working-class Shankill Road lads took part in the Republican Congress march to Wolfe Tones grave the Shankill Road branch was set upon by Catholic bigots who didn't like their banner.