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Development contribution

  • 07-01-2022 12:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Hi all,

    Recently was granted planning retention on a slightly oversized extension that was built back in the 1990s. Didn't realise it was oversized at the time but the engineer picked up on it when they were doing a survey prior to putting the house on the market (I think it's something like 1-2 square metres over).

    Anyway, planning retention was considered a formality (big back garden) and South Dublin County Council approved in principle back in November. Haven't really thought about it since.

    But we just got a letter in the door asking for €5,000 in financial contributions to the council for roads, water etc. This has to be wrong, surely? I know that the council ask for contributions on actual developments and social housing etc. But asking for that much on a retention for the sake 1-2 metres seems like madness and was never said to us before by anyone. Had we known, we would have just knocked it down. It would have been far cheaper.

    Any ideas?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988


    Are they asking or telling you you have to pay it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    Why not knock it down now so, and avoid paying the €5000.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    They're telling us. They say it's "attached" to the planning grant. The letter calls it an invoice, tells us how to pay, due in 30 days etc. The invoice itself also says that commencement of development can't begin until it's paid. Which is what made me wonder if this was right, because the extension is literally 25+ years old.

    It's too late now. The initial permission was given over two months ago and the house has gone sale agreed since.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 33,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    The initial permission was given over two months ago and the house has gone sale agreed since.

    Pay up or you will find that the house won't be sold (the buyers bank won't offer mortgage if there is a planning issue)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Yeah, it looks like that will have to happen.

    You can imagine that we're really unhappy that neither the council, estate agent, solicitor, engineer, surveyor or architect mentioned this at any point.

    Just a "by the way, pay us €5,000".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Just think of it as the fee you are paying for the use of an extra couple of square meters for 25 years.

    It will drive you mad otherwise. And hope the architect doesnt have a bill for you too :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ yurtyaherne


    It would have been put in the Conditions which would have been received along with the decision. If you felt it was unfair or wanted to challenge it, you had 4 weeks from receipt of the decision to appeal it to An Bord Pleanala for determination.

    As the final grant has issued, there's not a terrible amount you can do but pay it.

    What county was it by the way? Each local authority has a different Development Contributions scheme. Some charge per sqm and some charge a flat fee regardless of development size.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Yeah. It's not a case of we're trying to avoid paying it. It's obvious at this stage that we have to. We genuinely just never knew that this was a thing, totally ignorant of it. And I'm amazed that nobody mentioned it to us.

    Architect and all are already paid thankfully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭ FromADistance


    "The first 40 square metres of an extension to a house (including garages and conversion of attic to habitable areas) shall be exempt (subsequent extensions or extensions above 40 square metres to be charged at the residential rate per square metre). This exemption will not apply to development for which retention permission is sought. "

    I think you'll have to pay this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ yurtyaherne


    Also, you say it was 1-2 sqm bigger than it should have been. You are not just retaining the 1-2 sqm in that instance, you are retaining the complete structure as the first condition of an permission is normally something along the lines of "the development must be carried out in accordance with the plans and particulars lodged on xx/xx/xxx". If it is constructed and doesn't match the drawings that were lodged, its not in-line with its permission.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Read the last line of it...

    Edit: Ah you have, and edited your post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭ Thestart


    This happened to me a few years ago with retention also. I paid, but a few years later I found that another person from the same estate went for retention was sent bill excluding the 40sq/mtr as well. They appealed to an bord pleanala and won. It was in Fingal. I’ll have a look for the file and pm it to you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Cheers, I just saw your message there. I might have a look at it.

    This is the nub of the issue for us. If it was 39.9 square metres, we'd have to pay nothing and wouldn't even need retention. It's around 42-43 square metres, so we have to pay full whack on the whole thing? Seems really unreasonable. I'll take a look at what you sent me.

    Thanks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭ tscul32


    You should look up the development contribution scheme for the council involved. For example Fingal coco explicitly calls out that retention is charged at 1.25 times the current rate (€106 per sq m) but that there are exemptions, including the first 40 sq m. That's probably why that other person won their appeal.

    Have a look at how it's calculated for your council and make sure it's correct.

    Unless of course you didn't get pp in the first place because it was supposed to be under 40 sq m which is why you now have to pay what should have been paid back when it was built.

     >>>>>>>>>>>

    All retention permissions will be charged a multiple of 1.25 times the appropriate rates for any development in excess of the exemptions provided for under Section 11 of this Scheme.

    11 (i) The following categories of development will be exempted from the requirement to pay development contributions or may pay a reduced rate, as stated, under the Scheme; 

    (a) The first 40 square metres of domestic extensions. This exemption is cumulative and limited to 40 square metres in total per dwelling.

    <<<<<<<<<<<



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