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URC Round 10 - Munster vs. Ulster - Saturday, Jan 8th @ 7.35pm - Premier Sports 2, RTE 2, URC TV

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭ phog


    The citing window is over so Crowley can't be cited now.


    The TMO and ref decided Zebo was the guilty player and the hearing say they can't accept that and it was never a red card so he's free to play.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭ OldRio


    Like I said, utterly Baffling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭ Teferi


    The ref didn't "decide" that Zebo was the guilty player. The video of Zebo very clearly shoulder charging into the jaw of a player while not wrapping correctly showed that he was the guilty player. An utterly baffling decision.

    Post edited by Teferi on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    If that's the case then why was there a huge number of fans spitting fire about Brad Shields hit being a red? By the same definition does this confirm that Brad Shields red was a correct decision?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭ Teferi


    What does Brad Shields have to do with Zebo very clearly shoulder charging into the jaw of a player while not wrapping correctly?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    Brad Shield hit David Kilcoyne in the jaw without wrapping correctly yet it was considered an outrage that he got a red...I am just curious as to what's the difference?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭ Teferi


    But we're discussing how Zebo very clearly shoulder charging into the jaw of a player while not wrapping correctly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    "Clearly Shoulder charging"....lol.... Not even going to waste my time on that guff


    Im still wondering, what is the difference in the two hits? As by definition they are exactly the same only one seems to he an "outrage" and other one is clearly deserved...



  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭ phily2002


    Brad Shields one Kilcoyne was tackled into him by another player from what I remember, so that was the mitigation from red to yellow, ref and tmo butchered that one imo.

    Zebo and Crowley both seemed to make contact with the head and either could have got the red. Low end red for me with little ban. Chris Farrells was a lot worse the previous week, clear red.



  • Administrators Posts: 50,518 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ awec


    It makes no difference to me if Zebo is banned or not, but this is total rubbish. Zebo isn't a dirty player, this is just a lazy tackle attempt, but the outcome is crystal clear.

    For me, there is unequivocal contact from Zebo's shoulder to Lowry's face and no attempt to wrap. To suggest that this is not worthy of any sanction is genuinely ridiculous, and to say that the problem is the other player, who they conveniently never cited, only adds fuel to the fire that disciplinary hearings in this league are a sham.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    Doesnt the same apply here to some degree, Jack Crowley's position negates Zebo's attempt to wrap? Surely if that's the case then Zebo deserves mitigation also no?


    The difference is it seemed people looked for any excuse in the book possible to get Brad Shields the benefit of the doubt in his case yet in Zebo's case there was no such attempt and he was reffed to the rules as a result.


    Like I said before this looks to be complete double standards, it seems whatever the media says goes regardless of what the rules say.


    There's no way you could be impartial on this if you make the argument being made for Brad Shields and then not apply the same rules to Zebo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    "It makes no difference to me if Zebo is banned or not, but this is total rubbish. Zebo isn't a dirty player, this is just a lazy tackle attempt, but the outcome is crystal clear."

    So in that case we are in agreement that Brad Shields in the end was rightfully a red and that argument can be put to bed? If not then you are judging Shields from a different rule book to Zebo.


    Also if you look closely you can see that there was a clear attempt to wrap but Zebo could successfully do it as Crowley is in the way.

    This is the clear example of the bias in the two incidences (for whatever reason I dont know why), In Shields incidence he was given the benefit of doubt in every possible way by the fans but in Zebo's case its "crystal clear"...



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,063 ✭✭✭ nerd69


    Yera there's always been people looking to have a go at zebo I dunno if it's cause he talks a lot or of its something else odd considering its irish fans talking about an Irish player

    Post edited by nerd69 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭ leakyboots


    I don't think it was a lazy tackle I thought maybe Crowley's presence meant Zebo couldn't or didn't wrap also. Still a red though because of what happened and I'd have thought he would get a ban.

    I was at the game itself, it wasn't very clear what was being investigated on the big screen, we thought it was for tackling player in the air at first. And the way the conversation with TMO went on so long that only gets people riled up, I can understand why some fans were booing (aside from the fact that a home player got sent off, you'll always get boos regardless). There's an argument that maybe both of them should have seen red.

    The disciplinary system of the league is a bit of a lottery at times



  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭ phily2002


    Yeah I think Crowley affects Zebos wrap but Zebo would still have hit him in the head. He went in at speed high. Again it was bad timing but unintentional and low end. Would a wrapped shoulder to the head have only been a yellow? Hard to know tbh with the way the refs are, but probably still red.

    Shields was different because Kilcoyne got hit into him, if this didn't happen would he have still been high? Maybe, but there was a chance he would have dropped so that's clear mitigation imo.

    I think the 2 of them are very different tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    So IE same as Brad Shields hit meaning if we want to judge Zebo the way we have then Brad Shields also needs to go.

    That doesn’t really matter as if we are judging the two equally then and if we are talking about drop Michael Lowry was below chest height when he was hit, if that isn’t mitigation then I don’t see how you could give any mitigation to Brad Shields, yes Zebo was illegal all the time…but so was Brad so it that case the mitigation you have for him isn’t much.


    They really aren’t, one is being given the benefit of the doubt (Brad Shields) and the other isn’t (Simon Zebo).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Former Former Former




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭ TRC10




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,063 ✭✭✭ nerd69


    People are particularly judgmental of him I don't think irish people like people who are that out there and talkative in public



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭ aloooof




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭ TRC10


    Zebo just does not like Mike Lowry



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭ Yeah_Right


    I basically agree with all you're saying. However I don't think it's just the URC disciplinary hearings that are an issue. It's a worldwide problem. There is no consistency. Tackles and foul play seem to be refereed and judged differently in different comps and between club and internationals. Incidents that look the same have completely different outcomes that leave fans perplexed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭ Former Former Former


    It's the usual thing with rugby. There is an intense clampdown on a given offence, but after a while it sort of gets forgotten and we move on to the next one.

    Like, remember a few years ago, the refs were told to focus on SHs feeding the ball into the second row of the scrum? When did you last see anyone pinged for that? Or tip tackles, or neck rolls, or contact in the air? All of these were flavour of the month for a while.

    Zebo has benefitted from rugby taking its focus off head contacts. Two or three years ago, he would never have got off but there just isn't the same stringency any more, refs are always looking for mitigation and citing panels don't seem bothered either.

    So the next time you hear IRFU or WR banging on about reducing head impacts, remember that it's all a load of guff. None of them give a shyte about it.

    None of this is Zebo's fault of course



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭ aloooof


    Completely agree tbh, and specifically, any time you have an incident from a 2-man tackle, it turns into an even bigger lottery, both on the pitch and during the hearings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭ Teferi


    It's bizarre that you're trying to take attention away from Zebo and how he very clearly shoulder charged into the jaw of a player while not wrapping correctly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    Firstly he could wrap correctly because Jack Crowley was in the way and secondly maybe you should go read up what the definition of a shoulder charge because you clearly dont know what it is if you think that was a shoulder charge.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭ aloooof


    I don’t think the wrap was the issue at all; haven’t the laws changed that you can wrap with one arm, no?

    I remember a couple of months ago Drico criticising an incorrect wrap as it was only 1 arm, but subsequently saying he had talked to a ref and he had been in the wrong, and a 1 arm wrap was now legal.

    Now having said all that, I still think it was a clear red card.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,091 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    I might be wrong but I think you still can’t tuck your arm though. Otherwise they would be legalizing shoulder charges.



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