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Why is there no super high rise in Ireland?

  • 06-01-2022 4:50pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    Surely in the city centre there should be an option for 100 storey apartment blocks.

    The cost of the land is the same regardless of whether a 1 storey is built or a 101.

    Make optimum use of the cc.

    All new builds to be minimum 50 storeys.

    Abolish vehicular traffic between the canans (except Garda, fire, ambulance, deliveries).



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭ 3DataModem




  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    37 storeys isn’t nearly enough.

    Ballsbridge isn’t City centre.

    I’m talking between the royal canal and grand canal.

    Minimum height should be 50 storeys.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Culture, heritage and bull$hit.


    Then had audacity to claim urban sprawl is a problem.


    Place run by apes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    Out by the quays we should look like Singapore or Hong Kong. We could easily have compact living.

    200 storey blocks, mixed purpose. No parking. Pedestrianisation of most of the area between the canals.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭ Raichu


    Cos the council said so & if you don’t like that then ye can FECK OFF to “Europe” with your HIGH rise buildings


    but yeah council just won’t have it basically is the long and short of it. There’s reasons, if you want to call them that, I just call them bullshi- but anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,426 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious


    they should build a couple of 100 storey buildings with loads of "units" inside. House price thing would be solved overnight but they'd prefer to have everyone running around like feckin eejits trying to pay half a mil for an old council house from the 70s



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    What are those reasons?

    Dublin is a gem of a city so no hi rise at Marlboro street etc or OConnel Street. Too much history.

    Between the canals and in suburbs should be upward only.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭ Raichu


    reasons that would not be dissimilar to the one you’ve provided.

    History, sorry, but that’s a non issue for me personally. I think if we’re putting history above the very current needs of people (apartments and houses being a major one!) we have a massive problem on our hands.

    oh, look isn’t that multi century old building just lovely to look at..

    oh, look isn’t that homeless person just so sad to look at..

    im not advocating, for the record, we just knock down historical buildings, however if “but the history” is being used to deny planning just because it would feel out of place or that, then I just cba.

    maybe I’m cracked, I don’t know, I just feel like we should be prioritising more houses and the likes over the really old house, that you’re not allowed to go inside cos it’s very unsafe, so therefore useless.

    like I appreciate history, to a point, but I do not appreciate wastefulness and old derelict buildings with no purpose should be dealt with to make way for things that are actually useful.

    also, while walking around the city today (haven’t been in ages) I noticed a lot of empty shops and whatnot like in a row. Chippers and that just left abandoned - why couldn’t they be ploughed down and build some useful things there?

    not necessarily right in that exact spot I’m thinking of, but it’s not the only place in Dublin, never mind Ireland, that’s just existing with no purpose at all.

    a building that simply just exists despite the need for the land or space, historical or not, is just pointless. Take a nice photo and you can look at it to your hearts content.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    Capitol Dock is the tallest building in Dublin at 22 stories. It is hideously ugly

    I believe there are issues with very tall building as our fire service does not have equipment to deal with fires in them



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭ endacl


    Jaysus. Only took you 5 posts to get from 100 to 200 stories...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭ dotsman


    What do you mean we aren't short of space? Exactly where do you propose building the tens of thousands of homes we already need, let alone the many more we will need in the future?


    Don't get me wrong, I don't think we necessarily need 100+ story buildings. I don't think we even need that many ~50 story buildings. But, if even a small fraction of Dublin city centre was composed of buildings that were in the 10-30 story range, we wouldn't have the housing crisis, pension crisis or the national debt crisis we currently have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    How does the fire brigade in UAE put out fires in the Burj Al Arab or the Taiwan equivalent in Taipei tower?



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    out of interest, how does hi rise solve the pension crisis?


    i understand and agree with the rest of your post



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    What's the highest ladder the Fire Brigade have ?

    Building regs change a lot as you go up and you'd need more underground parking (shouldn't but..) so again with the building regs. And the whole Ballymun thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    How are fires extinguished in the Burj Al Arab?


    Ballymun failed because of the scum put into it, nothing to do with it being hi rise. Zero tolerance Gardaí is needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭ antimatterx


    Because are councilors and planners are morons and think we have a nice skyline. No we don't, we need to built one.

    There's 0 reason why Dublin CC can't look like NYC other than a look of imagination and vision. The country is afraid of change and won't take on risks.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    With equipment and training our fire service don't have?



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    Then train them.


    I doubt the lads in UAE are climbing up a ladder 500 metres up



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,282 ✭✭✭ correct horse battery staple


    Wouldn’t that shadow fall on water if built out docks as someone mentioned above. I am sure a few ducks wouldn’t mind.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 21,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Pawwed Rig


    I don't think you can build Manhattan style in Dublin. Something to do with the ground afaik.

    That said there is no reason why we cannot have 30/40 story buildings. It could really clean up the North and South inner cities if done properly and solve the 'housing crisis' in one go.

    Not gonna happen though as there is no appetite for it in the political classes and the locals in the area would kick up too much of a stink if their drug riddled areas were upgraded. People don't like change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭ silver2020


    I knew someone would try and bring "ballymun" into this thread.

    Have a look at various objections to 8, 10, 12 storey blocks and some eejits will mention ballymun as a reason for rejection of apartment blocks in Lucan or Celbridge.


    You also have scaremongering and again subversively putting ballymun type scenarios into the thinking of locals to an extent that they almost believe that the place will be overrun by rapists and murderers.


    8-12 storey should be the norm in any prime transport location.


    Huge high rise - it's a cost issue. They need built in fire protection over a certain level and as mentioned, the shadow would be quite disruptive to many.


    But 8-12 as standard and more encouragement for design led 30+ stories



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭ dotsman


    While the pension crisis is quite complex, there are definitely 2 major factors caused by the housing crisis:

    Firstly, with pensions getting more expensive, the need for people to contribute larger amounts and from the very start of their careers continues to grow. However, with rent being so high, far too many people in the 20's haven't started a pension as rent is taking up such a huge amount of their paycheck. Unfortunately, their 30's typically aren't much better as they end up renting for longer, paying even high rent, and every spare cent is put towards saving for a "deposit for a house". As a result, far too many people are either only starting their pensions or contributing to them in a meaningful way in their 40's (after they have the house bought) which is too late for many of them if they want to have a comfortable retirement. Similarly, many are only starting to build life savings (another important assistance with retirement) in their 40's or even 50's.

    Secondly, working couples are having far less children. While there are several factors for this, 2 of them are because:

    1. They struggle to buy even a small house, let alone a much bigger house to support a larger family.
    2. They are spending so much on housing that they cannot afford additional children (childcare etc).

    It is not just the ratio of working age adults to retirees that will be a massive problem in the years to come, but the ratio of "economically contributing adults" to "retirees & non-contributing adults.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭ dotsman


    Also should add a third point!

    One of the most basic assumptions people make regarding their pension is that they will own their own home with mortgage paid off (or be in permanent social housing if this is how they been living all their life). This not only helps cushion the blow of the drastically reduced income as they transition to a pension for many people, but also guarantees them a home until the end of their days without having to worry about additional costs etc. However, more and more, we will see people be private renters for life. Thus, not only will they still need to cover their significant rent from their pension, but they will face uncertainty during their old age regarding both rising rents and also potential eviction etc (if they fall behind in their rent or the landlord simply needs to sell etc).



  • Administrators Posts: 49,835 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ awec


    Dublin inevitably needs to build up, but a 100 story building would look absurd in Dublin.

    Consider the likes of the WTC were 110 stories to visualize just how tall such a building would be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Who would buy them?

    They would be prohibitively expensive to build, so the cost per unit would be massive. Fire suppression alone would add m10s of thousands to unit prices.

    The yearly management charges would probably be a couple of months rent too.

    Ah wait. I know. Lets get the council to lease them from a REIT and middle Ireland can pay.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,049 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005



    Properly installed and maintained sprinklers are what protect high rise buildings. You can't fight fire from below, so stop it before it spreads.


    That's what I can't understand. We are protecting an urban desert in the city centre to maintain properties that aren't of any use to anyone and will cost a fortune to get anywhere near habitual while happily destroying our countryside. I'm from around Dundrum and when I was young most of the mountains above it where all fields, now there's massive apartment blocks half way up the mountains and all these people need transport/shops/services provided while the city centre is completely empty of people with the infrastructure already there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭ Creamy Goodness


    Just imagining the absolute bile spewed on boards at the minimum 10% social housing being applied to these 100-200 storey buildings if they ever came to fruition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Good point. Sounding more like Ballymun every post :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,355 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    Give up - it's impossible to convince eco idiots who lust after high density living that it's more expensive, when they have in their heads it's cheaper and that it's the magic bullet for unaffordable housing. It's not far removed from those who are praying for another GFC so property prices plummet to levels they can more easily afford. The reason prices plummet in recessioins is that lots of people stop buying because they are suddenly out of a job or worry they might be soon.

    One of the only practical solutions to unaffordability is to move to where housing is more affordable.



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