DIY install

puntypower

Hi I'm looking at options for my solar and obviously I want to make it cheap as I can.

I'm very handy at DIY.

Has anyone here installed their own panels, inverter and battery set up?

I'm thinking of buying all from a supplier and doing it all myself in the early summer.

What's do you think?

slave1

Price via an installer first, you will get an idea from the Quotes 2020 and 2022 thread, then price yourself online and see is it worth it. To get the generous grant you will need Approved Installer signoff and that may be your biggest hurdle

graememk

As you'll also have to pay full retail and 23% vat, but with it installed it's 13.5%

Not saying don't do diy, but price it to be sure.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058226147/diy-install

Firstly know exactly what you want (size of system,battery or not)and then get at least three quotes from grant approved installers, then price up the equipment you need for a DIY install and also factor in the price of a sparks to commission system and send Nc6 form to ESBN.There are savings to be made by going DIY but weigh up all the factors.

Pataman

SAVE_20220219_091014.jpg

New toys arrived from China!!

14 panels with all associated roof fittings, inverter etc.

Now just need storm Eunice to bugger off so I can get started.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657450#Comment_118657450

Can you give us details on spec cost supplier etc

the_amazing_raisin

Out of curiosity has anyone done a partial DIY setup? I'm thinking of getting the panels installed on the roof and wired down to the inverter by a professional and then do the inverter and battery installation myself.

Finally get an electrician to wire into the house and do the certification

I'm not one for heights so I'd much prefer to send someone else up there

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058226147/diy-install

A Boardsie has a thread here about self install. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058166412/self-install-solar-pv/p1

puntypower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657450#Comment_118657450

Yes pm please with all the details

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058226147/diy-install

Here's another thread you might find interesting. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218819/solar-pv-planning-and-what-to-expect-at-install#latest

Pataman

The supplier is Yantzse solar in China.

14 Panels @410w each, 5.7kw hybrid inverter, roof brackets, wire etc everything you need.

Delivered to my door for €3500 including all vat, duties carriage etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118660699#Comment_118660699

Have you a link?

Did they organise shipping and customs clearance

Pataman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118660995#Comment_118660995

No, when you email them they generally talk to you on whatsapp.

Cardinal Maritime in Dublin organise everything including shipping

bumblebee22

That is very good price, can you pm the seller details if you can not share here.

Pataman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118669741#Comment_118669741

Here you go: https://www.yangtze-solar.com/

Pataman

Forgot to say they also sell batteries, but I didnt get any details off them.

puntypower

48v 200Ah LiFePO4.pdf

2096 dollars

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118696041#Comment_118696041

That's a very good price for a 10kWh complete system, although most of us in the forum built our own for a good bit cheaper again. Where do you get that price and does it include shipping, import duty and VAT? We typically paid about €1300 plus a few hundred for a BMS and some cables and busbars. All landed including all taxes.

Other question, did you price up your kit with Irish companies like solartricity.ie to see how competitive they were?

And why did you go for a very expensive hybrid inverter if you did not add batteries?

yankinlk

@Pataman @puntypower Buy versus Build - this is a really great option for the likes of me. I value my time and a warranty much more than getting a battery cheapest.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708212#Comment_118708212

Sure. But that could well mean that your battery system will never pay for itself. So what's the point then of installing it?

The only two viable options of having a battery are:

1. DIY and get cheap parts
2. SEAI grant install. This option will not be available for ever, is it still even there now FIT is coming?

yankinlk

I disagree with you.

I also question both of your statemennts "most of us in the forum built our own" and "the only two viable options are"

Do i have the time to prove that buying a battery for 2000 versus building for 1300 + time + more parts + X factor ?

No. Becuase you have your mind made up already. Please dont push others on the one path only.

bullit_dodger

Not sure it's so binary. There are a lot of factors to consider when looking at "Buy verses DIY".

First and foremost, I think the person has to have the basic skillset. Sure, not everyone is an electrical engineer, or just happens to know how to wire up a battery array off the cuff, but many of these things can be learnt from people on this forum, who I've seen time and time again, give excellent info. Or from others like Will Prowse on Youtube,etc. but the "basic skill set" needs to be there. Some "have-a-go-hero" who struggles to wire a 3-pin socket or just understand the fundamentals of electric circuit is just ASKING for trouble. Sure, considering they are ~50V and that in itself (probably) won't kill you, they are relatively safe, but.... you don't want to be accidentally short circuiting one those puppies. Lots and lots of joules = Bad-medicine(tm)!

Then there's the willingness to take on the project it. I could (and still might) make a DIY battery, but as you say, it involved a certain amount of time and effort, and to be honest.....it's just easier to order one premade, like I did myself.

The price equation though is pretty stellar. You mention buying a battery for 2000 verses building one for 1300, but what's missing there is capacity. For 2000 you'll probably get 2.5Kwhr, while the lads in the battery forum are knocking out 10Kwhr for that €1500. To buy an equivalent 10Kwhr prefabricated. you'd be talking ~€5-6K i reckon. That's a significant difference (5x the capacity for the same money)

I'm not endorsing either. I bought a prefabricated one myself, but I certainly can see the appeal of a DIY if you have the skills.

yankinlk

@bullit_dodger Scroll up and read post #17 9600KW for ~2000 "buy". Thats a lot closer to the DIY discount.

My plan this year (after spending a long time following the DIY forums) is to see how my new system performs and then check back to the battery market. If the difference is already that small - I will be buying for sure.

Unless I meet someone willing to help me put it all together - i see the build is too risky for my "have a go hero" experience! :)

bullit_dodger

Apologizes - I missed that.

Yeah, that certainly would tend to swing the argument in the favor of the prefab's. I did (quickly) have a look though as to how one would go about obtaining one of these batteries. Seems to be unobtainium as far as I can tell. Were you able to get a price/website where you could order one yankinlk?

(I'm not interested in ordering one as I already have a 8.2Kwhr battery - but I'd be curious to know if this was a real option for people other than being a nice advert I did see....

Supply 48V 100Ah Lithium Battery Wholesale Factory - Yangtze Battery Co.,Ltd (member of Yangtze Solar Power Group)

but not sure if it's the same)

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118709571#Comment_118709571

Server rack batteries like that are getting v common in the US, (if you have been watching will prowse recently)

and are closing the gap on completely DIY.

That being said, my recent purchase of 20kwh came in at 2270.

Technically i've build 4 batteries now. the 2 original sets of 10kwh and then the upgrade to 20kwh.

It took me about half a day to build the last one. Disassemble old battery, Quick top balance, with added cells, Mount new (stronger) shelf, reassemble the battery, reconnect all bms leads and replace the power cables (upgraded from 10mm2 to 16mm2).

bullit_dodger

Yeah - I did see that recent Will Prowse video where he was saying "Why would anyone buy cells anymore....etc". Interesting video.

Of course it's one thing to have a product out there which gives excellent value/performance, it's another thing to be actually able to get one. The graphic card situation for the last 2 years a good point in case! Those Eg4Batteries have sparked my interest in the past, but can't seem to find a supplier in Europe.

20Kwhr for €2,200, I mean no matter what way you slice/dice it.....that's savage money for that capacity. I could do with it too..... :-)

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118709852#Comment_118709852

I had 10 for a year and by april, it was covering most if not all of my day use.

Now in Feb/march, If i charge to 60-70 at night, Im coming into night rate at 30-40%. Even when putting in some large loads in the yard.

For "normal" people ie not you or whoever who mine, 10 is for sure the sweet spot, maybe 15.

Come may, I'm tempted to charge the car from the batteries.. at night... Just to use the power.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708497#Comment_118708497

I haven't seen any link for a 10kWh battery for €2000 including shipping, duty and VAT. Can you please provide one? If you can then I will agree with you that's a good choice for only a few hundred more than DIY, with less work involved and probably some sort of comeback should it fail

Linky please?

I have seen good value second hand ones for sale in the USA alright but the price about doubles by the time you'd have them landed. And there are no companies like batteryhookup in the EU with decent prices afaik. Stand to be corrected though, but I doubt anyone will find that link...

In the meantime, people here in Ireland with 10kWh installed have a few options like Pylontech, where a ready made system will cost north of €4000. In other words: it will never pay for itself (without thousands in subsidy)

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118709919#Comment_118709919

Tempted?! Why tempted - I'd be doing it mate! For sure! Even if it was just setting a limit of 10Kwhr a day or something and then leaving the rest for the house.

The whole thing about not "roundtripping" through various battery stores is good advice for most people, but in edge cases like yourself (or people like me mining where I can move loads timewise) there are different parameters at play that your average household wouldn't have. Yeah, you'll have some losses and you'll be cycling your battery.....but for the price you paid for that storage, easily worth taking that hit. Your payback will be measured in low single years! Jealous.

Still to return to the question of DIY or buy off the shelf - if any of those options mentioned (like the one Yankinlk posted) or the Eg4Batteries, were actually available like they are in the states, I'd be signing up.....but unfortunately unkel is right .....they are just unobtainable in Ireland without slapping on customs duty (and then VAT) etc.

That's why I was hoping to see if there was a European distributor, but alas.....our options are somewhat limited here.

yankinlk

This is what I think of most technology. Cost will go down, size will go up. Ill give you a link in a year when im buying! :)

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708240#Comment_118708240

Tbh with the way energy prices are going it's almost impossible for the battery to NOT pay for itself in a reasonable timeframe

Especially when it also gives you the option to shift all your grid consumption to the night rate which is both cheaper and cleaner

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712216#Comment_118712216

Have you not seen the semiconductor market in the last year. Prices don't always go down 😋

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712216#Comment_118712216

Yeah I thought not. Next time you should tone it down when you berate people for their money arguments and you don't know what you are talking about.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712288#Comment_118712288

I like your optimistic attitude :-)

And yes, loading the battery up at night from mostly renewables is better for pocket and planet. I have been doing that for years. And the more electricity you consume in the house (with a fairly large PV install), the quicker the battery pays back for itself. But with some sort of FIT imminent, it is almost certain that if you have a battery installed by someone, without a subsidy (those are the 2 conditions I keep mentioning), that the battery will never pay for itself unless you are lucky that the whole system keeps working for the like of 30 years or so, I wouldn't bank on that...

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712288#Comment_118712288

Yeah, generally that's true mate. Course it also depends on making sure that what you buy is "fit-for-purpose". If you spend an outrageous sum of money on a battery from one of the more "pricey" companies out there (we all know who I'm talking about :-).....while you will get payback, you could be talking ~20 years. Similarly if you buy a battery which is too big for your consumption and you can't "cycle it", then your also going to struggle to generate a good payback timeline.

So just a little bit of prudence and off-the-shelf should be a decent "win", but there's no denying that if you want a super quick ROI (could be as low as 20-30 months!) a DIY battery is the way to go - course not for everyone.

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712559#Comment_118712559

Ouch. I have only provided a viewpoint that conflcits with your very stubborn (there is only one way) attitude. Its not needed in this forum - you ought to try and be a little more polite.

I linked to two posters who said they got a price on a Battery. I never claimed to have got the price myself. Check yourself they are both in this thread - and neither has returned with more info. Maybe it exists today, maybe it doesnt. It certainly will sooner or later.

I agree with the calmer and more circumspect @bullit_dodger - paying too much for anything will never pay back. But cycling an off-the-shelf 10Kw battery will be fine for my circumstances if the price is close to DIY (ie not triple).

Edited: Im going to give you the last word cuase i suspect thats all you really wanted.

unkel

Yeah. But the price isn't close. Which was your point. You were wrong.

kieran26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118694358#Comment_118694358

Hi Pataman,

Did yangtzee solar organise the customs clearance or did you contact Cardinal Maritime yourself? I'm currently getting a quote off them to comapre to a quote from a here and i'm trying to get a full price together.

Pataman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761139#Comment_118761139

Hi

They appoint the agent here, Cardinal Marine. They will look after all aspects incl customs. They will also offer cheaper carriage from China than Yangtze offer. Call them for a quote.

Finished my system today: 7 panels(410w each) on East and 7 on west. Currently 11:20 and its generating roughly 2kw.

Very happy😀

Coddle4dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761971#Comment_118761971

Do you buy the mounting system off them too?

can you share your shopping list ? very interested .

Thanks

Pataman

Here you go:

Bear in mind I changed to a hybrid inverter for approx $300 extra

Invoice New.pdf

As above call cardinal marine, he claims to beat the transport charge

Coddle4dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762127#Comment_118762127

some value there.

If yangtze are $344 shipping im not sure i'd bother with a 3rd party. Or do you need them to clear customs ?

unkel

They are good prices, thanks for sharing @Pataman

What did you have to pay in customs / VAT for bringing it in?

Pataman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762466#Comment_118762466

From memory €75 duty, approx €660 vat

Pataman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762233#Comment_118762233

They appoint Cardinal Maritime here to complete the paperwork

kieran26

Here's my Quote from them. I'm still fine tuning a few bits such as the panel type and wether i need the circuit breaker and i'll take out the tool kit too. I Think the guy i'm dealing with isn't too strong on ins and outs of the shipping so i'm asking a few questions on that too.

I would also need to add in a fireman switch and a hot water diverter too. If anyone has any thoughts I'd appreciate it.

5kw hybrid solar system 2022.3.10.pdf

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118765505#Comment_118765505

Thanks again for sharing. On the face of it your system looks great value, I mean a 410W panel for $105 (€96), wow! But because of the huge shipping costs and taxes, it all adds up

Did you price the system up at all in Ireland? I got a similar system last year, but not quite as many panels. I just re-calculated what I would have paid for a 5.7kwp system like yours and I would have paid considerably less. And that includes local support and a more known inverter brand (Solis). In fairness I got a very good price, this is not generally available to the public (without a lot of effort). One caveat is that your mounting system looks very expensive, I'd say it wasn't a standard solution like mine was, which cost a fraction of what yours cost (mine is on a steel roof, the easiest and cheapest mounting)

freddyuk

You should ask for a flash test report for your order. No one ever does this. Each panel is checked and the output measured and recorded. The variation may affect your installation as all panels are not the same. Each panel can then be tested on site before installation. If you need to claim for a failed panel then you have the serial number and test report available. These panels are NOT MCS certified as claimed so maybe not fully honest manufacturer or just an "oversight".

The cables on the panels are very short! Normally 900mm minimum so you can connect panels in series but yours will not reach! If you are using parallel and series configuration will you have sufficient cable and connectors? You only have 50 metres of cable.

The panels of this size are very heavy if you installing on the roof. Minimum 2 man job once you get them up there.

Will the mounting hooks be suitable for your roof type? There are all sorts for different roof coverings and they are not interchangeable.

Have you actually designed the system? This is important. You will need the combiner box if connecting in parallel as the amps will be high and protection will be required. How many ways in the combiner. Where will you site this as possibly many cables required to be fed to it - it cannot go on the roof.

You will need isolaters , generation meter, CU breakers, inverter certification (for Ireland), monitoring equipment (included?), battery cabling, termination lugs, crimping tool, cable conduit/protection and fittings, etc. etc. I would properly design the system and get what you need now as the kit will be expensive here. Who will service the system if it goes off while you are away? It can happen and I suspect will need manual intervention.

Just my take on this and hope it is useful.

onedmc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425951#Comment_118425951

I think with the revenues 60/40 rule, you should really be charged the full 23% VAT. It's mostly a product sale, therefore, it should be the product, not service VAT.

the_amazing_raisin

Can anyone give me an idea of how difficult it is to get installers when you're providing the panels and inverter?

I'm guessing most of them want you to buy the gear from them and so won't be too happy with DIY customers?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789153#Comment_118789153

On a grant install? I'd say nearly impossible. As the installer has to stand over that all materials used are compliant with the Irish regulations. In particular there is EN50438 certification. That's why there are only a handful of different inverters being installed. Another reason not to go the China route yourself directly, importing non-conform inverters or other materials. You could get into trouble if you ever get an inspection from the ESB (or even fill in the form NC6 needed for exporting)

And of course the installer wants to make a profit on all the bits they use and they can buy at trade discounts...