Cycle lane bollards on Baldoyle Road and soon from Sutton to Howth

eviltimeban

Thoughts on these? While I see the need for cycle lanes, I see the bollards causing more harm than good as traffic will build up every time a car is trying to turn right (you won't be able to slip past on the inside).

I would be surprised if the Sunday morning Tour De France guys all stay single file inside the bollards - I can see them cycling in a group on the road part; they usually chat away to each other and you can't really do that single file.

The bollards will prevent cars parking up and blocking the paths, so that's a good thing. But I think there's a better way to enforce that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/right-to-worship-being-overtaken-by-right-to-cycle-church-elder-claims-1.4767490?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fright-to-worship-being-overtaken-by-right-to-cycle-church-elder-claims-1.4767490

AmberGold

Obvious or not the long term master plan is to get cars off the roads to be replaced by bikes & scooters, conventional or electric.

This type of thing is happening everywhere and can’t be stopped.

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058225611/cycle-lane-bollards-on-baldoyle-road-and-soon-from-sutton-to-howth

Something similar in Dooradoyle limerick has caused mile long tail backs when their were originally none!

And to make it worse they are not illuminated!

magicbastarder

there were apparently tailbacks from howth all the way back past clontarf on saturday afternoon anyway - and that's with a dedicated off-road cycle lane for the majority of the distance - requiring gardai to direct traffic in clontarf village. let's not pretend that some cars turning right will be the cause of traffic.

having cycled to howth and back on saturday morning, i didn't see a single example of what the OP mentioned, the stereotypical 'tour de france guys' cycling two abreast, on the stretch mentioned in the linked article.

magicbastarder

and to be fair (even without my cyclist hat one) - this is needed more to prevent people parking on the footpath between sutton and howth, which is at beyond antisocial levels at times. google street view handily captures this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3906301,-6.1010022,3a,75y,63.49h,73.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEkMMIoBNk7bggIq4G8Xj1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

growleaves

The 'need' for "cycle lanes" is beyond exaggerated. They will be empty of traffic most of the time.

It's an excuse to destroy the road system, and abolish driving over the longer term.

Extremely few people are able consistently to substitute a bicycle for a car. Result is that people will be trapped in their locality.

Atlantic Dawn

The areas that have been bollardised were rather piss poorly planned, they took almost a year from when it was announced to be finished to when it actually was. The surface of the existing cycle track badly needs to be resurfaced for the route, rather than do this before the barriers went in they added the barriers making the task much more complex and maybe impossible to do while barriers are in place. If I was cycling on the route I would feel safer using the actual road instead.

How are deliveries going to be made by post, courier etc to any homes on this route without parking in these lanes? The only way I can legally see it being possible to do now is if 1 in every 30 houses is compulsory purchased and levelled to the ground to be replaced by a parking bay to accommodate this. Cost about €20 million.

The council has allowed tens of thousands of new homes to be built with zero planning for accommodating cycle lanes around them, basic skills are lacking.

Seth Brundle

The 'need' for "cycle lanes" is beyond exaggerated. They will be empty of traffic most of the time.

Are you really expecting to see tailbacks of cyclists in them?

If there is safe cycling infrastructure then people (like my wife) would choose to use it but would use her car until then

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410514#Comment_118410514

These lanes shouldn't interfere with the road system since hardly anyone will use them in general, and bicycles can't replace cars except for limited numbers of people taking short journeys.

Morrisp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058225611/cycle-lane-bollards-on-baldoyle-road-and-soon-from-sutton-to-howth

I think that if some cars owners gave cyclists enough room on road there would never even be need for lanes . They don’t . They then use them in park in to buy bag chips from chipper as too lazy to walk . Some also use roads as if they in f1 on Sunday morning with total disregard to others . So you lot who guilty of the above you made this issue .

magicbastarder

The 'need' for "cycle lanes" is beyond exaggerated. They will be empty of traffic most of the time.

yes, this is why they work so well. while motorised traffic has dropped to below walking pace (as certainly happens with howth frequently) cyclists zip along because bikes take up so much less space.

if you go out the howth road, they've recently repainted the lines on the cycle path - double solid white, but single solid white at the ends of people's driveways. you can be damn sure there won't be bollards on those single white sections, and thus no bollards to stop a delivery van stopping delivery outside someone's house.

the bollards are not the fault of cyclists, they're the fault of a system where people feel perfectly entitled to park on the road/on the footpath where it's illegal to park, and no-one is willing to police that.

Morrisp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410458#Comment_118410458

Because they lazy and unfit that’s why .

magicbastarder

and to go reductio ad absurdum on the 'there aren't enough cyclists to justify cycle lanes', we should not go to the effort of taking the shark out of the pool to protect swimmers from shark attack, as there is no one swimming in the pool anyway.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410556#Comment_118410556

You're dreaming.

If you suddenly realise you need to go from Howth to Belfast will you jump on a bicycle?

Cars and bicycles are not equivalent, and never can be. That is obvious.

Morrisp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410572#Comment_118410572

Don’t be stupid I don’t think anyone saying this . Use your common sense or at least try

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410381#Comment_118410381

That street view is outside the primary school, I'd imagine at collection time. There isn't many places to park for parents unless you swing into offington and walk back.

Not my problem just giving an explanation.

I think the bollards on the baldoyle road heading towards portmarnock work well. While the road certainly feels narrower it does prevent cyclists cycling two abreast. The road is always fairly busy and can be difficult to overtake safely leaving enough space.....now everyone has their own lane, so no longer an issue.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410572#Comment_118410572

Do you think its very common that people suddenly realize they have to do a 2-3.5hr journey. How often would they do this in your head.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410572#Comment_118410572

And people who want to drive to Belfast have a dedicated motorway taking up a vast swathe of the landscape - and on which cyclists are banned - on which to do it. How handy for them.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410662#Comment_118410662

You are just dodging the point.

Are all journeys short, limited and undertaken by fit people in their prime?

Cars and bicycles can never be equivalent, for obvious reasons.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410641#Comment_118410641

yep, this is almost certainly the case if you go up to the school on street view, there are plenty of kids leaving and the lollipop lady is on duty. but you're into cause/effect here - why are there so many cars outside schools, and so few students cycling to school these days? a large part of that is the number of cars on the road.

there's a bike rack outside that school, and about 20 bikes or scooters visible. if the cycle lane was actually safe for kids to use, maybe there would be more kids cycling and fewer being driven.

note - there are also about 25 or 30 bikes and scooters visible just outside or in the school grounds (and that's not counting the bikes on the trailer behind the large taxi - not sure what is going on there) - and a roughly equivalent number of cars parked on the road. but look at the difference in the effect on the road.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410531#Comment_118410531

In stats in 2014 more than half of travellers doing a journeys under 2km used a car.

The average journey distance in 2014 stood at 14.6km

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410728#Comment_118410728

Right so short limited journeys (between 2-15km) like I said.

What about those times when people travel more than 15km?

What I'm saying isn't really controversial so I'm surprised it's got anyone's back up.

Bicycles can never be equivalent to cars, because they can't substitute for anything but short limited journeys undertaken by fit people (of which elderly, very young children, the disabled won't be capable).

Also can you transport a trunk full of items on your bicycle?

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410724#Comment_118410724

It's a church of Ireland school I think, so catchment area might be too big for primary age to cycle/scoot but that's not to say a minibus couldn't be arranged....it's abit of a disaster location for a school as the road is so busy, same with Fintans but they were there before traffic became such an issue and before parents were in a position to drive their children to school.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410708#Comment_118410708

Well technically you are dodging your own point since you brought it up.

Do you think all journeys are long, unlimited (whatever that means) and undertaken by people who are unfit and not in their prime.

That implies people in their prime never take journeys, and no one takes short journeys.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410794#Comment_118410794

Lol

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410783#Comment_118410783

but i think it's fair to say that (moreso with secondary schools to be fair) the reason many kids don't/aren't allowed cycle is that their parents think it's too dangerous.

when i was cycling to school (i'm 45) 13% of secondary students cycled to school, according to the 1991 census. in 2016, that had dropped to 2.1%, the vast majority of whom were male (not sure of the gender breakdown in 1991, to be fair).

there are many reasons for this calamitous fall, but safety is one of the major ones.

magicbastarder

Bicycles can never be equivalent to cars, because they can't substitute for anything but short limited journeys undertaken by fit people (of which elderly, very young children, the disabled won't be capable).

e-bikes are a major game changer here. and you don't need to be fit or young to cycle from howth to sutton. it's easier to cycle it than it is to walk - walking burns multiple times the amount of energy compared to a traditional bike.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410769#Comment_118410769

Its not that controversial, or that its got any got anyone back up, its that its missing the point.

The point is most people use the car even on extremely short journeys. Its not the length of journey thats causing them to take the car.

No one trying to make bicycle the same as cars. That's a false equivalence. The thing about cycling that its actually easier then walking. That's the whole point of it. people of all abilities can cycle. Not everyone can drive.

Do people only drive when they need to move a trunk full of stuff or something? What's your point.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410823#Comment_118410823

Its a catch 22 though isn't it. Don't build infrastructure thats cycling friendly. Then drive because there is no infrastructure.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410769#Comment_118410769

Most cyclists have both a car and a bike. You seem to think people have either a car or a bike.

Bike lanes will encourage people to leave the car at home for the short journeys. And they will still have the car for those sudden unexpected long trips.

Phil.x

The sooner eamon sleepy ryan and the crazy gang are out of power the better.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410381#Comment_118410381

TBF it happens to be school pick up time and rightly or wrongly happens outside most/all schools at kicking out time

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410919#Comment_118410919

Bring back the auld days...

Dublin is the 6th most congested city in Europe... 17th most congested city in the world...

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-traffic-congestion-4985027-Jan2020/

Phil.x

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410965#Comment_118410965

And plastic bollards have made things worse, the crazy gang will probably have us near 1st if they keep on with these plastic bollards. Also these plastic bollards use a huge amount of oil in their creation, does ciaran cuffe from the crazy gang still have his €1.6m in oil shares?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410992#Comment_118410992

Your argument seems to be more cars will make it better, as in less traffic. I'm sure you could find places with more traffic if that something you're looking for.

magicbastarder

going by Phil.x's signature, i don't think you're going to get much more than anti-GP bile from him.

and some directions to jonesborough.

Flinty997

You'd thinking finding somewhere with more traffic that he loves would be no problem.

Seth Brundle

Bicycles can never be equivalent to cars, because they can't substitute for anything but short limited journeys undertaken by fit people (of which elderly, very young children, the disabled won't be capable).

Disability groups generally welcome safe cycling infrastructure because this same infrastructure is also designed for those with mobility issues to safely move.

As for the elderly, they manage fine in other countries and managed it fine here for decades. What exactly has happened to elderly people who, now, in your view, cannot utilise cycle lanes?

The truth us that the elderly and the disabled are used as an excuse against this infrastructure, often by those who would happily impede those groups by blocking a footpath.

Also can you transport a trunk full of items on your bicycle?

Firstly, nobody is banning the car but to respond to your question, cargo bikes can carry plenty of items. Google it!

Thelonious Monk

Serioulsy how f**king thick are people these days?

THIS IS THE WORK OF THE COUNCIL NOT THE F**KING GREEN PARTY

Same gobsh*tes on every thread about anything blaming Eamon Ryan for all of their woes.

This is a great initiative and will encourage visitors to Howth to cycle rather than take the car. With or without these bollards, Howth is a total absolute mess when the sun comes out due to all the cars that visit, I can never understand what goes through people's heads when they decide to bring the car to Howth on a sunny Sunday in June.

magicbastarder

have there ever been any anti-car posters in howth? there certainly have been anti-cyclist posters.

Flinty997

Tbh there are easier places on the coast to get to in the car than howth. Torture on a busy hot day.

LollipopJimmy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411838#Comment_118411838

Howth is a beautiful spot however a huge amount of what could be a fantastic space is given over to car parking. The seafront is a bloody joke.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411866#Comment_118411866

It's actually horrible, just a giant car park as you enter the harbour area. It has been completely ruined by cars. The cliff walk is gorgeous but the village itself is downright ugly because of all the traffic and cars.

LollipopJimmy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411978#Comment_118411978

I cycle to Howth regularly from D8, at one stage 3 times a week given it was 50k on the nose. It was never too bad and the close passes were generally only at that bloody church or on the quays

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410319#Comment_118410319

Thats a flat out lie

Pawwed Rig

We were just talking about this today. It is a great addition to the infrastructure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411866#Comment_118411866

That's a fact. When you consider that there is a DART station right on the harbour it has to come down to laziness.

billyhead

The biggest issue here is laziness. People who attend that church are probably in easy walking distance but no they need to get into a car and drive the short trip. No wonder the country has an obesity problem.

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412082#Comment_118412082

Explain I attend Dooradoyle gym 5 times a week?

Coming from the motorway its a fact!

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412082#Comment_118412082

The entrance to the cresent shopping is causing it because you can not slip by due to the positioning of bollards!

Ive been in a cue for over half an hour many evenings which never happened until these were installed !

It was exaggerated around the Christmas shopping traffic and its a daily occurrence from 3 o clock onwards!

And why would i need to Lie?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412328#Comment_118412328

But if the cycle lanes was always there so there should have been no slipping so all the bollards have done is stopped you doing something you shouldn't so boo hoo.

Lets not forget the reason that road has bollards is the illegal parking at the weekends particularly on match days.

So illegal parking has caused your supposed backlog not bollards.

You are also talking crap about the lack of a backlog on that notorious road before any bollards.

Dooradoyle gym is also before the CS coming from the motorway and the only way to slip past is to drive completely over the cycle lane and dangerously close to cars while also most likely being on the path too

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412288#Comment_118412288

you should take up cycling! much less boring than going to the gym 5 days a week.