Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Allotment business

  • 31-12-2021 12:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭ Deub


    Hi all,

    I am currently looking for an allotment and it is difficult to find. I will likely end up on several waiting lists.

    it got me thinking: a farm near me have allotments they rent between 3 and 4€/sqm per year depending of the plot size and they are full (they have a waiting list).

    For farmers near cities, it seems to be a good return on investment. Even if you allocate 50% of the space for alleys, etc it is 2000€/year per acre.

    am I missing something?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten


    No, it sounds like a good idea. If it were me I'd be getting a Solicitor to draw up some type of liability Weaver for them to sign before they get the allotment. Just in case someone slips, falls and goes to sue you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    I believe that's not worth the paper it's written on, everyone would be doing it if it worked. The hunts would be able to go ahead if signing a waiver worked

    You'd still need a good PL insurance



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭ Luttrell1975


    Agree here, better to have insurance, than some vague disclaimer. But both are a good idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    Lots of ideas appear to have good ROI until you get into the weeds. I'd imagine, besides dealing with the public, insurance and security would be the main headaches.



  • Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭ Deub


    I hope it is not linked to an insurance issue. I am fed up paying more because of it everywhere I go (car, gym, tourist attractions, etc).



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭ arctictree


    Fencing, access and insurance would eat up most of your profit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten


    feck sake, things are in a bad state so. We are prisoners to the Law and the Insurance Industries



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    Purely from people trying to sue at every turn, I see there's 4 cases against HSE at the moment from people that contracted Covid in Hospital.

    If that isn't thrown out, the HSE will be even more bankrupt when the floodgates open



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    Waivers or “enter at your own risk” signs or agreements are useless. A smart arse overpaid solicitor will find a way to prove you were negligent and then the problems start.

    mid you haven’t informed your insurance about you inviting people in they may renege completely on your cover.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭ arctictree


    I've known a good few businesses over the years that tried to claim off their insurance and the insurance company has refused to pay out. Kind of makes you think about what's the point in getting the insurance in the first place.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭ enricoh


    A neighbour has them in, I reckon he has 50-60 stalls at e300 a pop.

    It's only a minor sideshow for him so in no way pushes it. He tips a load of dung for them the odd time n that's his input for the year. A lot of people only last a year- they work involved doesn't suit! On a nice day in the summer the families would have their picnic with them and all. He said some of them grow nothing and just sit round listening to their tunes n smoke weed!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,051 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    I know a good few businesses that successfully claimed off their insurance, the renewals where so high they are now trading without insurance. The whole system is rigged against people trying to run a business



  • Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭ Deub




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭ kerryjack


    I was thinking that myself that people would be all enthusiastic at the start and get sick of it fairly quick, like it's a nice idea, like minded people meeting up trying to grow a few vegetables and help each other out and share they produce. its probably bigger in England than in ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭ Deub


    I think it is a good opportunity to get more people interested in what they eat (and agriculture in general). Even people that thinks it is easy to grow things (just plant and come back in 2-3 months to harvest) realises that it is not that simple.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭ enricoh


    They watch Hugh fearnley whittinstall on the telly and get inspired.

    If I was living in an apartment with kids though I'd definitely get one. I'd say they were a blessing for people in apartments during the lockdowns. We were out in the fields nearly every day with the kids for the first lockdown, definitely helped pass the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭ Luttrell1975


    There is a huge level of insurance fraud and product illiteracy. People buy the cheapest sh!7 insurance without researching the cover. There is so much fraud that everyone pays for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭ Biscuitus



    Ha the future of farming in Ireland. Grow legalised weed in a big tent and rent out grass spaces for people to relax and smoke it on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭ arctictree


    I wonder did he have to fence each allotment? That's a lot of posts and wire. Was looking at it here before but just couldn't make the numbers add up.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    To avoid someone arriving with a tractor and driving across other plots to get to his own plot, post and wire is essential. Metered water for each plot to stop some scoundrel leaving a sprinkler on all night in hot weather is also a requirement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭ tommybrees


    Would love something like this around my town. I think its a brilliant idea and there's massive growth for future opportunities.

    Might take a awhile to catch on but we all no the days of cheap food at the supermarket is coming to an end in the next few year's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭ enricoh


    Yeah they're all separate with post and rail fencing. It all depends on if you are near a big town or city I reckon. The council's do ones for buttons e20-30 euro but big waiting lists. I don't think you need planning for them but if you did I don't think I'd bother.

    A tillage lad up the road put up a massive polytunnel and cleared his gear out his sheds and rented his sheds out. An estate agent I know rented them n said he could have rented them 10 times over. Food for thought for an lad with sheds doing nothing useful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    The allotments in the UK don't seem to be fenced. They are just marked out with paths separating them



  • Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭ PoorFarmer


    A friend of mine just outside Cork was looking at this this few years back. We sat down talking it through one Winter night (not too many beers involved) and in fairness there were as many questions left as answers at the end of it. Gave a dig through my papers and got the rough estimates for material we did out.

    The biggest question was cost. The layout was to be 63 plots. Laid out as a row of 10, roadway, 10 + 10 back-to-back and a mirror image of this again with another roadway in the middle. Approximately 6000m² or about 1.5 acres. With a smaller 9m x 3m plot at the top end of each roadway so 3 of these.

    Fencing of each plot. He was allowing 10m x 10m plots each fenced off with post and rail fence with a metre wide opening at one corner. A gate for each plot would have to be considered also. We figured that for the 63 plots there would be around 365 posts and 650 lengths of rail. All plots would be 10 x 10 with just 3 small ones available. People could divide up between themselves if that was too big with one person only liable for the rent.

    Water. Inch supply from a new, designated, well (tillage farmer so didn't want to use the home/yard supply) with a half inch connection and tap to each plot. 350 metres of 1" pipe plus whatever extra to go to the well. 63 T-joints and taps and around 200 metres of 1/2" piping. All the pipes would be run on the access lanes in case of leaks and ease of access for repairs. Rainwater harvesting from his sheds to supplement when available but all the infrastructure for this would need to be added too. Sheds are down hill from the fields so a pump would also be required for this.

    Access. 3 metre wide laneways for access by car/tractor/minidigger. To be done in woodchip with an initial layer of around 100mm. For 350m of roadway around 105m³ of woodchip. Similar amounts of hardcore would be needed but wouldn't require topping up annually. No open access to roadways, permission to be granted by owner as access gate would be locked at all times. Pedestrian access at all times.

    He would have to extend/clean up the yard to allow for all the cars. Everybody would probably show up the first fine Saturday in May. No local bus route and at the top of a large enough hill so not too many cyclists either.


    On the other side of this if you are around the farm most of the time anyway there are other ways of pulling in money with the allotments. A shop on-site selling tools, seeds, fertilisers, sleepers for raised beds etc. would make money, especially the first few years with newbies setting up. He also was of the opinion that only structures approved by him should be allowed. So he was thinking that a deal could be struck with a supplier for polytunnels or the like could be done to get him a few quid also or maybe a cheaper large tunnel down the line that he could rent out in smaller sections.

    It was left at that as far as I am aware but if you think the income of €3-4/m² that will be €18000+/year I might just give him a buzz and see if he will jump. Like everything else though insurance costs will have a big say on the feasibility of it all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭ Deub


    That’s the price I was quoted in 2021 and it was full so didn’t get it. City council rent them at 1€/sqm so 3€/4€ per sqm doesn’t seem extravagant (hence why the place was full). A big selling point is leaving a big pile of manure for the tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    Would love to know has anyone contacted an insurance company about this sort of enterprise.

    May fit feeling is the premium to have the correct insurance in place would consume any potential profits. And running it without 100% insurance in place just risks having the place sold out from under you if something went wrong.

    I have a friend who takes in campers but has no additional insurance other than general farm and public liability, he has not notified the insurance company he is operating a campsite and has no planning to do it either. The cash has been a great boon to him no doubt, I’m just not sore the risk he’s taking is worth it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭ kerryjack


    Jesus that's thinking big. You know kerry group was started in a caravan in a corner of some field down in North Kerry. What about put in a bit of an advert in local paper and local radio, see what demand you have, corner off a couple of acres run a few gravel paths up the middle of it put a few flags up on there plots tell them if they want fences they put them up give them a 5 year lease and collect your money each year, you probably get 10 plots to acre at 300 a plot, the plot holders will be paying for the insurance as well and water and dung and what ever else you can flog them



  • Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭ PoorFarmer


    This guy does nothing by halves. In fairness he has a good off farm job and money doesn't seem to be a problem. He was guessing at around €2/m² at the time but if rates are as the OP says then it might be worth having a look at again. We did the figures in late 2015 where there wouldn't have been the same appetite for allotments anyway.

    We were thinking that there would be close to 40 10m x 10m plots per acre so 1.5 acres wouldn't be a huge loss if that kind of income was available from it. First year I would imagine would cover all set-up costs and everything after that would be gravy.

    Can't see the plot holder coughing up for water as an extra, would surely be seen as a prerequisite for such a thing? I would never have enquired but is there even an allotment insurance available in this country? Definitely would need to change yard usage to carpark for his own peace of mind.

    Like all things, if it was straightforward we would all be at it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭ Deub


    Here is an idea on pricing:

    https://www.glencullenfarm.ie/pricing/



Advertisement