Mica Redress Campaigners want to form a political party

John Doe1

https://www.thejournal.ie/mica-potential-political-party-donegal-5640648-Dec2021/

“It’s time now that the people of Donegal started looking after Donegal. The way the Healy-Raes look after Kerry is what we want"-Paddy Diver

As a Donegal person, I am conflicted over this and can imagine a lot of people in the more salubrious parts of the county will view this with disdain.

Donegal is the poorest county in the state, €15,705 being the average salary with no decent infrastructure to speak of and the Celtic Tiger basically passed it by. This in spite of Donegal being relatively prosperous (compared to the south) before partition and having a vast train network back then also.

A modern example of the county being considered "forgotten" is that despite being the 8th largest county in terms of population can somehow get 1/8th the number of IDA visits as Sligo. (with 3 times the population of the county and with Letterkenny having a larger population than Sligo town)

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-07-04/170/

Personally, I think donegal people should be putting pressure on their current TD's within the major parties rather than voting for a single issue party who might get one seat at most.

osarusan

Anybody who thinks more Healy-Rae style politics is a good thing is a moron.

Perhaps they are utterly disillusioned by their existing representatives...but a moron nonetheless.

enricoh

I thought sinn Fein had it fairly sown up in Donegal? They'll just promise everyone a free apartment in Dublin along with a replacement mica house in Donegal if need be!

Agree about the ida but the border n road network probably puts multinationals off. It's a pity fishing was thrown under the bus by our politicians in Europe. I don't see a mica party getting the traction needed.

OneEightSeven

Donegal doesn't have "decent infrastructure" because it's littered with one-off €250k bungalows and €400k McMansions. Its towns do not have population density for decent infrastructure to be viable. We Irish are incredibly naive when it comes to infrastructure. We're the only country dumb enough to implement a laissez-faire policy on planning permission for homes and then give away €3 billion to a vulture fund to roll out fibre broadband to these houses. If people living in one-off houses wanted fibre broadband, there was no reason why they couldn't sell their house and move into a nearby town, but Fine Gael aren't going to win the one-off housing vote by telling people to move house.

enricoh

250k bungalows doesn't strike me as excessive. There's sod all mc mansions in the area I go on hollyers to in Donegal and if someone worked hard (usually in the states) and built themselves a nice house fair play to them. At least they got off their hole n paid their way in life.

NIMAN

Have to laugh, you'd think Donegal was the only county with one off housing.

I have been a lot of this country of ours, and I see 1 off housing everywhere. Of course maybe not in central Dublin, or Cork or Galway. But outside of them, it's everywhere.

Difference is, most other counties have decent levels of high quality road and rail links.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118376439#Comment_118376439

Every TD in the Dail gives priority to their own area because they want to get re elected, the only difference is the Healy Rae's are more open about it.

Dempo1

Whatever about the rights, wrongs of redress (and I support some redress along with chasing those actually responsible), this notion of setting up a Mica Party, borders on the absurd. I've said it before, this Paddy Diver chap is more of a hinderence than help.

If those touting this IDEA think for a moment single issue politics will help their cause, they are mistaken. Using the Healy Rae"s as an example is silly, they cleverly focus on many, many smaller issues that effect their constituents, rarely succeed in getting it all their way, but get enough consessions to keep them in the Dail, they in essence shout loudest and government concede occasionally just to shut them up.

The Mica issue, an entirety different matter, it just doesn't affect Donegal constituents, it affects every tax payer, Parish Pump politics rarely succeeds on an issue that affects the entire electorate in my humble opinion.

With the matter seemingly still un resolved, this notion of a new Mica Party will hardly persuade government to approve over €2 Billion only to then have to compete for constituency seats, after all let's be blunt, its retaining their Dail Seats they are more concerned about, nothing more, nothing less. If there was any real sincerity in government, this matter would have been resolved a long time ago and probably at a fraction of what it's going to cost now.

Paddy Diver has infact Gaurenteed one thing, with this hair brained idea, further delays in a resolution.

silver2020

Seems it's the poorest part of the country, yet for some unknown reason it has the highest building costs - if you believe the sinn fein rhetoric

Hard to blame em really.....this distain of parish pump politics pushed by the media particularly since the recession has resulted in large areas of the country being left behind

Brendan Bendar

Distain for parish pump politics…. Wonder how that could happen.

Allegedly a number of ‘parish pump politicians’ in the south of the country have questions s to

answer regarding govt aid regarding payments to businesses..

I have yet to see any so called ‘parish pump politicians’ struggling for a Bob or two.

I tend to avoid them like the plague, so I do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377036#Comment_118377036

If you have noone to fight your counties corner in the dail,the government will simply ignore yous and let your area go to ruin

Hence why all my life...ive seen waterford been run down and neglected and essential services slashed as we have noone to talk up for us....we still dont have 24 hour cardiac care....if you get a heart attack at 10 past 5 on a friday,you either die or make your way to cork....the m9 was to not be a motorway,only for insistance of martin cullen...repeated governments have been wanting to close down the rail links to/from the city...

the healy-rae may be utter gowls,but theres no question but kerry deos significacntly better than similar sized counties

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377181#Comment_118377181

This reliance on the government has to stop. Locals need to be more proactive.. local investment companies etc. Council can set local rates and grant exemptions to encourage investment. The Kerry model of raiding the general tax take for certain areas needs to stop

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377181#Comment_118377181

Well then your option is vote out those people who are TDs.

This business of running little ‘feudal’ areas based on national taxes is for the birds.

If the Govt are that bad why are TDs like O’Caoimh O’Dea, etc still around in power.

Electing people to national stage whose only interest is their own area is a recipe for disaster and usually ends badly.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118376946#Comment_118376946

I thought Diver would have been a cert the 3rd SF candidate in Donegal the next GE, he must've pi55ed someone off if he's mouthing off aboutstarting a seperate org.

An average salary of €15,705 looks extremely low? Although I haven't done any research into it. Is there a link for this? Thanks.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118393428#Comment_118393428

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/revealed-the-richest-and-poorest-counties-in-ireland-36636317.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118394951#Comment_118394951

Ok, thanks. That's disposable income not average salary which makes more sense. I'd expect Donegal to have less disposable income compared to Dublin due to jobs, isolation etc.

Brendan Bendar

Could I ask what were these houses valued at for the Property tax.

what were they valued at for for insurance purposes.

What is the role of insurance companies in all this.

Who is behind these runs to create a new party.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118395188#Comment_118395188

Recent figures also revealed that the average household in Donegal takes in €32,259, which is €12,000 below the national average. Donegal also has the lowest income per person among the working population, where the average pay is €24,626 a year.

https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/11/16/revealed-donegal-people-earn-lowest-weekly-wage-in-ireland/#:~:text=Recent%20figures%20also%20revealed%20that,is%20%E2%82%AC24%2C626%20a%20year.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396060#Comment_118396060

I notice you don’t mention the cost of living differential in that lovely county.

Lot of high end motors up there, they say.

Serious slabs….uhmmm

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396139#Comment_118396139

I live in Donegal and I don't see much of a "cost of living differential" here.

We don't have different oil prices, electric prices, insurance prices, grocery prices, clothes prices.

The vast majority of the county can't avail of heavily subsidised public transport. We have no rail links, no LUAS, poor buses. As for "high end" vehicles, maybe they are all on PCP?

Where exactly are we making all these great savings?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058224459/mica-redress-campaigners-want-to-form-a-political-party

"Donegal is the poorest county in the state, €15,705 being the average salary"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I nearly died with laughter reading this - can you kindly explain then why even a cursory tour of Donegal roads reveals quickly that Donegal citizens are living in houses approaching twice the size of those elsewhere. You'd think people in Donegal were living in mud huts and if they were, wouldn't be all a lot better off without all this mica crap.

I put it to you that citizens of Donegal may have an average taxable income of €15,705 but are expert at screwing the welfare state, working on the side, benefiting from cross border transactions and so on.

Let them form a political party if they wish, myself I think they should vote to leave the Republic, join up with their mates in the Six Counties and screw the Westminster government instead to keep them in the lifestyles of that have come to prevail in NI.

NIMAN

... and with that latest attack on all Donegal folk, I am out.

elperello

It's a risky strategy for the victims of Mica to follow because what they really need is to get their houses fixed and get on with their lives.

They have put up with enough stress and to find the energy to go the full blown political route would be a big ask.

On the other hand Tom Gildea did it 25 years ago but the issue was much different.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396191#Comment_118396191

Wow, I am guessing your GF ran off with a Donegal fella?:p

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396206#Comment_118396206

You're a well informed poster here, do you honestly believe that "Donegal is the poorest county in the state, €15,705 being the average salary".

Really??

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396297#Comment_118396297

Recent figures also revealed that the average household in Donegal takes in €32,259, which is €12,000 below the national average. Donegal also has the lowest income per person among the working population, where the average pay is €24,626 a year.

https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/11/16/revealed-donegal-people-earn-lowest-weekly-wage-in-ireland/#:~:text=Recent%20figures%20also%20revealed%20that,is%20%E2%82%AC24%2C626%20a%20year.

Pussyhands

Bringing up the point that it's the poorest county in the country is stupid because some county has to be the poorest county.

Also talking about train lines 100 years ago is stupid too considering train lines were for transport because there were no cars. With cars we didn't need as many trains.

I can't imagine many Donegal people commuting via train to sligo or dublin too often.

I am not one bit surprised to hear Diver come out with the rubbish he just came out with. He'd been treated like the King of Donegal and I knew entering politics was going to be the next step. Filling his already well filled pockets with more cash!

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396172#Comment_118396172

How do you not see different costs when you are a border county and thus get maximum benefit of cheaper prices in the north?

I know of places in the north selling bags of coal for 11 euro! When lads down here have to go up the north for them they then charge 16 euro a bag or more.

I know people in louth and monaghan and they all take regular trips up north to stock up on things where they save big. Paracetamol for example is something like 50c when you're paying several euros for the same thing down here.

padd b1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396249#Comment_118396249

Ah "multi channel Tom", now there's a blast from the past.

The gombeen's gombeen.

Brendan Bendar

Wonder what the sq.footage of Pearse’s big pad is….

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396249#Comment_118396249

Did Tom Gildea achieve anything? Wasnt his issue that he wanted Donegal people to continue to pirate UK TV channels for free, which was simply legally unobtainable? And single issue candidates suffer from having nothing coherent to say about anything else, as they quickly discover that the housing needs of 0.3% of the nation don't amount to a hill of beans. Bring on the Mica candidate.

Incidently, what exactly is Diver's job? Early on, one of the papers said he worked in construction all his life, but didn't say in what capacity. (Yes, I am wondering did he ever have anything to do with building houses in Donegal).

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396172#Comment_118396172

It seems Donegal people are another part of society to be smeared for no good reason other than making government look bad. Happens.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397365#Comment_118397365

Tom's achievement was getting elected to the Dail and to Donegal County Council.

Yes he ran out of steam and retired from politics but he did something which is very difficult ie. taking a seat in the first place as an independent.

You are right about the legality, Ray Burke had it all stitched up.

Anyway as I said already there is a big difference in the issues.

Are you suggesting that Paddy Diver has a case to answer re. mica?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398061#Comment_118398061

I would say a lot of people have cases to answer… a lot of questions but very few answers coming out of the issue.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118393121#Comment_118393121

From what I've seen and Heard from Diver to date, I suspect even he's to difficult to handle for SF 😉

malinheader

My opinion would be paddy diver speaks to much from the heart and believe me he Is a very decent person driven to this point by the fact his lovely home that he worked hard for is no crumbling before his eyes.

But In Michael Doherty and a few others they have people would grace any party and I think could do alot better for Donegal that is being done.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399146#Comment_118399146

It's an interesting development, as I think folk would have assumed the Mica campaign would naturally go to SF, given that party's willingness to promise.

Could even SF be getting a sense of the horror outside Donegal at the taxpayer being forced to pay so much for the mistakes of others.

Some of the houses in Donegal are incredible. Take a drive up by Milford and Lake Mulroy, absolutely palatial.

Stunning location. Fair **** to them. There is money in Donegal. Anyone I have met from there are very very hard working.

MakersMark

This new party is divided over two choices for its slogan.

They're torn between "Wah...wah...wah.." and "It's all your fault"

They already rejected "It's not the Tax Payers fault"

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118376549#Comment_118376549

How come then that the Mica campaigners think 350k isn't enough to rebuild a house?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396319#Comment_118396319

Those figures exclude income earned in Northern Ireland, for which the CSO has no access.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411453#Comment_118411453

Have you done any building recently? The folks just finished a sunroom and I can't get over the price difference in materials since I built my place 4 years ago. I know plenty of lads in trades so labour wasn't too bad. It was a nightmare trying to get them as they are so busy.

I didn't pick 250k. 350k I reckon would be the bare minimum to rebuild to the current specs n regulations. Also there is no one to rebuild these houses so builders won't be shy putting the boot in.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411734#Comment_118411734

You are saying that 250k for a bungalow isn't excessive, therefore pretty normal, but there are no McMansions but 350k isn't enough to rebuild.

Something doesn't add up and it is the Irish taxpayer losing out.

enricoh

If you built a house for 250k even 3 years ago I reckon it'd cost 100k more to build it today. I'm not in the building game but know plenty who are.

A mate in roadstone said an 11% rise applies on everything when they go back tomorrow. They'll be one of many increasing prices.

Irish taxpayer should have got cracking 10 years ago when construction was on the floor, ain't no value now.

Brendan Bendar

Lookit….. this thing will run and run as the vested interest try to screw the taxpayer to the wall.

Key to all this….what valuation on property tax , what value on house insurance, where did the defective material come from.

Have the builders records of the vat and paperwork.

Every sympathy for those householders, but that’s where I would go first to proctect the taxpayers wedge.

A lot of records and paperwork needs to be dusted off and evaluated.

The lack of oversight also need investigation.

Potential-Monke

Hmm, would I support a political party formed from the people who are taking money out of my pocket, on the other side of the country, so they can rebuild their massive houses because of cheap materials used by a private company that is still in business... away ta feck. Cheek of 'em.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411456#Comment_118411456

They should ask lizzie to pay for the house if they are paying the tax to her

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118423866#Comment_118423866

You'll appreciate, this would be a Donegal party for Donegal people. It's not supposed to make sense.

Like, bear in mind Government is already committed to paying out a scheme costiing €2 billion. The argument is just that the campaigners want a scheme that gives a blank cheque to rebuild McMansions, including holiday homes and investment properties.

It's not meant to make sense, it's just meant to deliver money to builders in Donegal. While allowing this kind of statement to be made.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40774809.html

There's a basic arithmetic that I haven't seen mentioned yet. If there's 6,000 houses involved, or thereabouts. In 2019 (before Covid) there were about 430 new dwelling completions in Donegal.

Which suggests to me that even if you doubled the 2019 rate of house completions (and you assume the current level is addressing new demand) it would take you more than ten years to rebuild eveyone's house. So if these houses are all as bad as is made out, I suspect that means people should be planning to leave Donegal.

Unless they're making up all the stories about their children crying themselves to sleep out of worry that the house is about to fall down on them.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427676#Comment_118427676

Good post, says it as it is.

Blatant attempt to screw the taxpayer for their own lack of foresight.

Moral of the story ……you get what you pay for.