Humane Bolt! & Deer dispatch within the Public Domain

Zxthinger

Hi All

I want to try and promote my ability to remove dead and dying/injured deer from the public areas within my area of employment (Local Authority Operations)

I have currently authority to remove dead deer from the public highway but if they're alive I must call the vet.

It seem that the use of a humane bolt might be a worth investigating. and it would allow for more efficient animal disposal.

Has anyone any experience with humane bolts or are their any longer reaching "humane bolts" to deal with upset animals especially if they are sporting antlers or have the ability to inflict injury to bystanders.

In truth, I have never had to call the vet yet but its the protocol that exists. We have had several deer regain composure and wander off the road and later expire in someone's private garden however this is not ideal but it is a result albeit unfair to the animal in question.

I'd also be interested if any of the readers have seen firearms being used in the public arena to dispatch wounded animals and if so was this Ireland or elsewhere and if so what type of firearm was untilised and was there any exceptional circumstances..

Grizzly 45

Do the Irish Deer commission humane dispatch course in Jan. That will give you a stronger"legal footing"[FWIW] with both council and AGS. http://irishdeercommission.ie/online-humane-deer-dispatch-course-register-now/?fbclid=IwAR044ZT88XqNXYuorEJaj1ifYKebotYcYmHV6VFyLcrE4fBGKqSGbGAmeYYn

Next, I'd look at possibly getting a sub calibre device for a 12Ga/20 ga to a pistol round for a shotgun a being a safer alternative, or even a .22 magnum rifle or even one of those UK legal folding SBBL 410 pistols with a variation for 410 shotgun slugs for humane dispatch. The thing is, are you going to have that many deer to dispatch PA that will require ANY sort of specific firearm for the job and justify the "good reason to possess?

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/live-firearms-and-shotguns/brand-new-falco-9mm-shot-pistol/prod_858.html

As there is a good reason to possess in the Garda guidelines and they mention a particular type of .32 cal device,[Cash man]it should be a doable propositionin some shape or form. However, there is a whole lot of difference between dispatching a wild deer and a lame horse. Many of those vet dispatchers are captive bolt killers using a blank charge to drive a spike into the animal's skull and brain in a controlled environment. Others are like a loaded spiked hammer that fire the charge when it impacts the animals' skull. However, most vets just do euthanisa these days with lethal injections rather than having these devices about. As all 3 are in controlled environments and not out in the wild or at a roadside where you might be tackling a broken legged deer you will need some sort of standoff distance rather than a captive bolt killer to do this humanely. Nor are you looking for any fancy shots either, you are looking at a skull shot in the weakest point of the skull to instantly drop the deer if it is down and in the safest way possible too on a public road. In that case, a .22 magnum will do the job well. Folks who slaughter their own beef or pork have been using those for years. Plenty of YT vids of slaughters in AZ/NZ dropping steers with a silenced .22mag.

Part and parcel of a German hunters job to deal with roadkill if your let is crossed by roads. Most hunters have a registered pistol/revolver to deal with a downed animal, and as the police are there any way to deal with the road traffic accident, they do the traffic control while you dispatch the animal. Some old school hunters can still do a dispatch with a hunting knife. By severing the spinal cord between the 1st vertebrae and the skull. It's not taught anymore in the hunting course as it is considered inhumane and rather dangerous as a few lads have gotten antler tines thru the hand while holding onto[wrongly] the dying animal.

Zxthinger

a lot of info there to digest and that's on top of the third xmas dinner. Lol. Thanks

Zxthinger

Does any one know what type of hand tools are suited and considered as accaptible for humane dispatch.. ie can be licence .. The Commissioners guidelines referance a "Cashman" pistol on 0.32cal but what is that and can anyone shed light on it..

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781137#Comment_118781137

Re the "Cashman".Found this just yesterday and I think even the name and terminology in the commissioner's guidelines might be wrong. This Accles& Shelvoke company seems to have stuck this "Cash" description on all their conversions. So I think this "cashman" description in the guidelines is just an example not a hard and fast rule.

https://www.hampshiresmokeryandgunroom.co.uk/product/accles-shelvoke-cash-humane-killer-32/

https://www.hampshiresmokeryandgunroom.co.uk/product/taurus-cash-pistol-32acp/

Grizzly 45

Yup Accles& Shelvoke,did,or still do make slaughtering instruments and cable spikes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accles_%26_Shelvoke

Zxthinger

It looks fairly devoid of any aiming device thusnitsba hold on and shoot pistol..

Zxthinger

Thus it's a hold on the read and shoot device offering no stand off. Prob better off with a rifle in every regard except for ease of transportation..

Grizzly 45

Shotgun with 00 buck will do it too at close range.

Zxthinger

This would be a more suit instrument

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recoilweb.com/bt-vp9-review-veterinary-pistol-163880.html

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788280#Comment_118788280

At close to four grand for a pistol?Want to be putting a herd of injured deer a month to make that pay or be justifiable.😮

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790478#Comment_118790478

If Harold Shipman was a vet

Zxthinger

TBH I never really looked at the price. Its a horrible looking firearm anyway but still more functional than the Cashman 32...

Despite looks and costs, is there any possibility of either of these being licenced in the state by legitimate users.. or has that ship sailed

Feisar

I dispatched an animal injured on the road once after a call from the Gardaí to my Dad, friend of his called him as no wildlife officer was available. Twas an awkward shot from a few yards in a sort of a double ditch with a Sako TRG and 8-32 Nightforce. The deer was still pretty mobile, I wouldn't have liked to have had to got humane bolt close to dispatch it.

A battered old CZ hornet using the iron sights would probably be the cheapest/handiest option.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791692#Comment_118791692

I would say...You are at the airport, not at the pier from which that good ship has long since sailed, served an eventful career, been decommissioned and scrapped.🙁

Zxthinger

So no one in Ireland can have a pistol to dispatch animals?

Zxthinger

Maybe we'll go back to the good auld pole-axe..

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796205#Comment_118796205

I am aware of a few that have 22s licenced for dispatch, but not centrefires post 2008.

Extremely rare, but they are around.

Zxthinger

It seems that the law in its haste was inconsiderate of real world needs..

Its bad enough using a 22lr in a rifle barrel for dispatch with its low energy never mind using it in a short barrel..

Anyway...

Grizzly 45

A .22 will drop cattle and hogs as the day is long once you hit them in the right place in the head. Same for dispatching deer.But then again you could just as easily use 00BUCK[called that for a reason] shot or a slug,if a rifle was inappropriate.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798044#Comment_118798044

Haha, your first sentence could readily describe all of Irish gun laws, and most of our other laws to boot 😄

Yup, agree it is far from the ideal but I was happy to see some were actually licenced for the purpose.

Less dangerous to the shooter than a 243 at close range at the very least.

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792694#Comment_118792694

Its rare but not un-heard of, someone being stabbed/impaled by deer antlers, its common enough for anyone working with cattle to get smacked with a head/horns from time to time.

As Feisar says a battered old anything at 10 odd yrs will do the trick. In all honesty any experienced user with a rifle scoped or not could/should not miss from this range.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799640#Comment_118799640

Irish Gun Laws = FUBAR. 😀

Grizzly 45

Its rare but not un-heard of, someone being stabbed/impaled by deer antlers.

I know personally of one of them.A professional hunter in Germany of over 45 years of experience, trying to finish off a roe deer by severing the spinal cord with a knife method. He got a prong thru his left hand that almost cost him movement in three fingers from damaged tendons and 15 stitches and put him out of paid work for 3 months. That's from one of the smaller EU breeds of deer. So imagine you want to tackle a Red or Sika doing this?

Hence, he now uses a 9mm for dispatch. This method is now not taught anymore in the German hunting course as it is dangerous and now considered inhumane by the animal libber lobby.Its the one thing I would find fault with the Irish Deer Commission's humane dispatch courses suggesting this as a viable method of dispatch.

Maybe we'll go back to the good auld pole-axe...

Not too bad an idea if you were using something like a boar spear for this kind of wet work.

Munsterlad102

Are humane dispatchers not exempt from firearms licensing? Also regarding the 32 ACP cashman, AGS can't give you a license for it as it's a restricted short firearm. Am I missing something or is this another case of AGS playing legislator?

.243

Personally I’d favour a derringer long barrel in .410 with a slug,but for now it’s the knife

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805638#Comment_118805638

I'd say it is almost academic in the small amount of them out there as most vets nowadays use;

1] Lethal injection [2] A captive bolt killer fired by a Hilti blank or compressed air without the complications of licensing [3] Have maybe once or twice in their entire career to deal with an ultra dangerous animal that needs that kind of standoff In which case a 32 is a pretty lame cal to be using.[4] These are guidelines which I assume were put there to deal with the odd live round dispatcher that might show up in a day to day Supers workload,as to what to do with such.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809259#Comment_118809259

Oh I'd imagine that they're few and far between, but my point was that the commissioner's guidelines seem a little bit dubious.

These firearms require a firearm certificate and will be captured on the application form as 'Other'.

Firstly, they don't require a firearms cert as they are exempted under section 2(3)(G) of the firearms act. But if they didn't, AGS can't issue a license for them as they're restricted short firearms, assuming that this is a new application and already licensed. So any regulations the commissioner sets in his guidelines are irrelevant as humane dispatchers don't fall under firearm licensing regulations. ie AGS can't say you can't have a "conventional handgun" or limit you to a .32 ACP Cashman.

Zxthinger

so accepting that logic! your saying that AGS can't refuse a handgun or can't restrict its calibre.. all based on fact that a humane killer or a slaughter man is not subject to the firearms act etc etc.

so how do you proceed ahead obtaining a licence that you need to allow purchase and removal from the firearm from a dealer, even though you can legally be issued a licence for CF short arm etc etc

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816324#Comment_118816324

so accepting that logic! your saying that AGS can't refuse a handgun or can't restrict its calibre.. all based on fact that a humane killer or a slaughter man is not subject to the firearms act etc etc.

I never said that they can't refuse a license for a humane dispatcher other than a non restricted pistol, I'm saying the very opposite, AGS have to refuse an application for a restricted short firearm. What I'm saying is that humane dispatchers are outside the licensing system and can be held without a license, but cannot be held on a post 2008 license.

so how do you proceed ahead obtaining a licence that you need to allow purchase and removal from the firearm from a dealer, even though you can legally be issued a licence for CF short arm etc etc

I have no idea how it would realistically work. You can't be issued a license for a post 2008 restricted short firearm, whether that is a 32 cashman or a Glock 17.

Zxthinger

There is a clause in the 1925 act that states that a dealer must be provided with a valid licence prior to any sale or hand over of any firearm or alternatively the buyer must be able to demonstrate to the dealer that he doesn't require such a licence and is entitled under the law etc etc.

now try finding a dealer that will accept that clause and you'll be elected and win the lotto on the same night.

As far as dealers are concerned, the powers that be are as ruthless as Putin and they won't attempt to cross the line or even look over it..

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825370#Comment_118825370

When did I ever say that you could buy a firearm from a dealer without a license? I never made such a statement so stop jumping to conclusions. I merely stated that AGS don't have the legal authority to issue a new license for a restricted short firearm, but you seem to think otherwise. So tell me, what part of section 3D of the 1925 Firearms act allows for such a license to be issued?

Zxthinger

your reading my statement arseways. I never referred to anything you siad or quoted you.. im saying it...