Clonsilla village

BlazingSaddler

Hi all. Does anybody know what is being built next to Applegreen in Clonsilla?, also any idea what’s going in the building between the Chemist and Romayo’s?, seems like there is work going on

Fatnacho

Apparently, a GP practice going in beside the chemists and there was planning permission for a cafe and apartments beside the Applegreen.

Daeltaja

Beside Applegreen, a 3-storey block with 4 apartments and a restaurant/cafe unit on ground floor. Aldi submitted planning permission before Christmas for the site on Weavers Row - including an Aldi, 4 retail units, 60+ apartments and a courtyard area. It looks like apartments will go in beside Lidl and at the site of the Logde, too, so the area will look completely different in a few years O_O

KGLady

A51AAD03-0FB9-4EE5-A23F-07C7E8F86DC5.jpeg

Online public meeting about the major planning apps in Clonsilla including SHD in Kellystown, hosted by our opposition TD.

I have no affiliation, just remembered this thread when I saw the meeting advertised 🙂

ultraviolence

im surprised they got planning permission for apartments... they are going to look out of place considering the whole area is full of houses/one storey houses.

I remember the councillors not supporting the aldi application and rightly so.i wonder why do aldi and lidl think its okay to build stores in every open space they can find. The land which lidl was built upon would have been ideal for houses but i guess we needed another store instead. Lidl blakestown is a 5minute drive.

Flinty997

There's an argument that many people don't want or need a house. They need suitable housing. Also your bedside a train line so anything goes with regards to density.

Putting high traffic shopping in congested locations is done very frequently. Castleknock being a good example. Commercial considerations seem to over ride good sense.

ultraviolence

Building houses in clonsilla does not stop apartments from being built elsewhere. Apartments are being built near coolmine station, hansfield and in other parts of dublin.

poster above said its a three storey with 4 apartments in that building? that does not sound like a high density apartment block. If they are one bedroom apartments i think it would have been smarter to build 3/4 bedroom houses and get the most use out of the land while also keeping in line with the aesthetic of the other mature estates surrounding the area. The most recent estate Weaver wood is behind that applegreen site and they managed to build houses even though its beside a train line.

It was quite silly of aldi to want build a store near lidl. A lot of reasons for refusal on the ABP report from last time so im guessing those reasons will be used again and hopefully aldi can stop trying.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439063#Comment_118439063

That's the problem with the Clonsilla area, everything is a 5-10 minute (plus traffic delays) drive away. Having a Lidl locally has been great, wouldn't mind an Aldi opening nearby either. But no doubt it will be opposed because "it will increase traffic in the area". I'd very much shop locally than go to a miserable shopping hell like the Blanch shopping centre. Maybe we'll get a coffee shop in the next 50 years or so too.

BlazingSaddler

I really don’t think the supermarkets add much traffic to the area, would be happy enough with the Aldi myself. The apartments not so much

ultraviolence

That 3 storey apartment block beside applegreen seems to be getting a cafe/coffee shop.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440181#Comment_118440181

Be careful what you wish for. Solution to shopping hell is not build another one closer.

Clonsilla used to be a village. Now it's just a sprawling incoherent mess of ad hoc building. They should have planned a community focal point around a retail centre. They should also have tied it into the canal amenity and thus the greenway. No vision.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439382#Comment_118439382

They are only getting started. Look at the recent apartments under construction in Riverwood. Lots of planning applications for similar in the area. That's the future.

Houses do not get the "best out of the land" even if we prefer them.

Flinty997

ultraviolence

When i said that houses will get the best use out of the land i was talking about that applegreen development only. i can't find any information regarding bedrooms but if these are 1/2 bedroom apts it would make more sense to build 3/4 bedroom houses just like weaver wood estate behind the site.

Just reading what one cllr had to say and she stated that the applegreen development goes against a certain objective for clonsilla – 'Goes against the spirit of Protecting the historic character of Clonsilla Village by conserving old houses and cottages and only permitting sensitive development.' but yet it was still granted and also was given permission to include an off license as well.

in my opinion apts have a suitable location and dont. clonsilla village is not a suitable location. Yes that riverwood development also has apts but its on the other side of the bridge and is away from houses so its okay.

It's also important for fingal to take into account the possibility of the closure of several level crossings when deciding on the aldi development. many people will be going to aldi in clonsilla instead of aldi mulhuddart/blanch.

Flinty997

Lots of recent apartments and the ones in Riverwood are beside and overlook houses or schools. They are building them everywhere or planning to.

No offence but. What historic character? It's featureless.

ongarite

I don't get the historic character comment.

The site beside Applegreen has been derelict for a long time. Nothing to save around it bar apartments behind and housing estate beside it.

ultraviolence

Those apartments in riverwood are not new and fit in with the area quite well. The only new apartments i know about are the ones going on the other side of the bridge beside the st mochtas pitches.

That historic comment was for clonsilla village as a whole not just that site. A modern apartment block with an off license looks out of place.

And yes i know many apt blocks have been submitted and some have fortunately failed to gain permission but its up to the council to approve or not. Developers dont care if an estate is mature or not all they see is a piece of land that an apt block can be built upon.

Same on the carpenterstown road, apts approved by abp after objections from cllrs and locals. New-ish estates opposite so no reason not to continue that trend for the overall aesthetic of the area but i guess cramming as many people into an apt block is what developers want.

Let's hope that applegreen devlopment looks somewhat nice..

Flinty997

Sorry I meant those ones beside st mochtas (how many floors are they?) and the ones beside st pats. The point being they are putting them everywhere regardless if theres nothing similar around it. Castleknock Inn same.

New Lidl and Aldi Aesthetic fits in well. Monolithic bunkers.

Where is the center of Clonsilla Village and what Historical Character is there in that location.

Polar101

Aldi planning permission rejected, no surprises there.

https://planning.agileapplications.ie/fingal/application-details/91200

Daeltaja

Hmmph. I think having an Aldi and some commercial units with a lot of parking would have been nice. Noone is ever going to touch Clonsilla village and the parking situation is dire.

ultraviolence

Great news. Plenty of shops in the area.

People sent in really good submissions as to why this development is not appropriate.

As Roderic O Gorman TD said 'The Fingal Dev Plan 2017-2023 contains an objective setting out a height restriction of 3 storeys for buildings in clonsilla village. This development contains x2 4 storey apartment blocks which goes against this objective'

It is funny to see how careless Aldi was, they did not even bother to read the local area plan/dev plan as their proposal went against those plans. Very embarassing considering that was a second application. If Aldi cant be bothered to read the local objectives then i have to question why do they want to build a store in the area. All they see is a piece of land to make money from while disregarding the local area and the objectives for the area and its surroundings.

Hopefully Aldi can move on as there is plenty of land available in dublin. but i would not be surprised if they go to abp. Aldi is desparate and it seems like abp give permission for everything nowadays.

Clonsilla_family

Any update on the Clonsilla Aldi?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856289#Comment_121856289

https://www.pleanala.ie/anbordpleanala/media/abp/cases/orders/315/d315707.pdf?r=372586256083

Permission granted last December.

Clonsilla_family

Thanks. I didn't know it went to ABP (not surprised though)

ciaran76

https://youtu.be/-R8GAD1Wt08?si=kZhVsUn4Kh6c5kdq

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765046#Comment_122765046

Here's clickable link: New 170-unit residential development proposed for Clonsilla, Dublin 15

I didn't realise that the Clonsilla Inn would be demolished as part of this development.

Pat Dunne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765046#Comment_122765046

Interesting to note, that the proposed new junction to enter and exit the development will be opposite the set down area of St Mochta’s National School, on the Porterstown Road.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765637#Comment_122765637

at about 25s in, you can see the before and after does not seem to affect the pub?

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122767907#Comment_122767907

Ah, I'm wrong, you're right. The 'before' has trees and a Leeds United poster and this made it look quite different from the 'after'.

BlazingSaddler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122767891#Comment_122767891

This is ridiculous! The Porterstown Road will be closed off soon at the level crossing when the Dart + comes on stream and there are two other developments on the cards on the site of Keane’s Cottage and the area surrounding the old Schoolhouse. It’ll be bedlam and incredibly dangerous for the schoolkids.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122765637#Comment_122765637

Build to rent? or housing for gurriers?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122768832#Comment_122768832

What?

When through traffic is eliminated, there will only be those accessing the developments. The closure of the crossing reduces the traffic, making the developments sustainable from a traffic point of view.

Pale Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772466#Comment_122772466

Where will the through traffic go when the Clonsilla station crossing is closed. My guess is down to the next crossing point which is the "new" bridge over the track. This would not, in my opinion, reduce the traffic in the immediate area.

mattser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772466#Comment_122772466

'What' all you like Blanch but what's the alternative for traffic?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122777383#Comment_122777383

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122777438#Comment_122777438

The issues raised re the new developments was traffic on the Porterstown Road and St. Mochta's school. I was just making the point that the traffic issues are balanced by the closure of the level crossing reducing traffic versus the new developments increasing traffic.

We need to build alongside the Maynooth line for sustainable development reasons.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772466#Comment_122772466

There is very, very little through traffic along that road, it doesn't really go anywhere that isn't much better served by other roads (its closure attracted no objections in the Dart process). All the proposed developments absolutely will mean more traffic going past the school.

But to be honest, it's a reasonable trade-off if we can get more housing units built.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122785457#Comment_122785457

Back in late 2013 there was a lot of opposition to the proposed closure of the Porterstown level crossing (it was two step process - remove the right of way, which the councillors could stop, and then closing the level crossing). It was seen as a 'test case' before DART+ West. You are right that the objections evaporated.

In the public meeting, held in St Mochta's school, the PTA outlined their plan for a one way drop-off system where parents would come from Clonsilla Road, drop off in school, and then turn left and go across the level crossing. Obviously a closure would scupper those plans.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122785831#Comment_122785831

A turning circle at the level crossing provides the same function, just sending them back up the opposite side of the road to the Clonsilla Road junction.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122787835#Comment_122787835

I believe that the main motivation for the one way system was to avoid the delays of people turning right onto Clonsilla Road, but, the turning circle you suggest would help things.

Flinty997

While for sure you can tweak the junctions here and there. It will make little difference. Traffic is only getting worse. People are just going get used to all the traffic this ad hoc planning causes. In my opinion, schools played their part with their catchment changes, encouraging more people to drive to schools rather than getting places locally.

Pale Red

I thought catchment areas were normally in the immediate local area.

Flinty997

You have to ask why are so many driving if they live in the immediate area. It's just another straw on the camel.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122850968#Comment_122850968

They are. In this instance, the catchment area of the school is aligned with the Catholic parish boundaries.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122850918#Comment_122850918

I would blame the Department of Education for some of the catchment issues - they regularly build a school way too late and this results in a school catering for children a decent distance from the school and this results in parents driving their children to the school. A sibling policy keeps this going for many years.

When local children do get into the school, I think that there's some laziness or 'car is the only way to go more than 100m' mentality among some parents which unnecessarily increases traffic. Some schools bring the kids outside to run a mile in the morning to compensate for their inactive method of getting to school.

Flinty997

As for the siblings rule. If you have 3 or 4 kids in different schools that isn't going result in less driving. Anyway there are other things that caused the school population increasingly less local, causing an increase in car use. Part of it is not reserving the land for schools when they plan lots of housing. Or jam a lot of new housing in an area ousting all the existing people from the catchment causing them to go elsewhere.

Flinty997

It's just bad planning over and over. It's one thing planning and building in an existing developed area. It's quite another to be building on green fields and building traffic congestion into it from the start. How does some one build all this new housing with such bad road infrastructure and poor rail links.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851730#Comment_122851730

The siblings rule is good if there's no driving; I was describing where the first child is driven to school from outside the expected catchment area and so the their siblings will be too.

Hansfield SDZ (Strategic Development Zone) was planned out before construction started. I know that the developers wanted to do their usual houses-first-infrastructure-later but Dublin 15 Community Council (in 2005) pushed back hard to flip that order.

That said, infill development (small areas within existing areas) is encouraged to reduce sprawl. That sounds good but, as you said, it impacts school places (where the DoE is pathetic about helping fix).

Flinty997

Handsfield is all well and good.

Clonsilla, and Clonsilla road specifically was always the main road. It's been bottlenecked with lights and ad hoc development along Clonsilla. Which wouldn't be so bad until you consider all the hot spots along it. Schools, train stations, retail, housing. Then consider the impact of closing crossings, Dr Troy bridge bottleneck and massive increase in housing, kellystown etc.

I know I'm a moany old git. It's just always annoyed me how messy it all is. There was an opportunity to create a modern village centered around the train and canal, instead of just stuffing things at random strung out along a road. It's not people or community friendly planning.

Flinty997

No point crying over spilt milk though.