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Micro generation announcement

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭ Pique


    The price for electricity under the CEP is currently planned at €0.135 per kWh for 2022 and 2023.

    That's very good imo. Much higher than many of us were expecting anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    Yeah, although that's for the CEP which I guess is primarily aimed for business/agricultural installations. Can't see similar fees paid for residential, which was missing from the article. If they did €0.08 or above for residential, I'd be relatively happy. More is better of course, but they'd have to remove that limit of €200/year and no "35% of your capacity" nonsense which we've heard from other sources.

    Still when you do the math, most of us won't be benefiting much from it. Even on an exception sunny day in May/June I'd still consume most of what I generate so it's a moot point for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭ Pique


    >but they'd have to remove that limit of €200/year and no "35% of your capacity" nonsense which we've heard from other sources.


    I heard Pippa Hackett on Newstalk earlier and she mentioned 20% (but said she'd have to double check that) but I didn't hear the full interview and didn't hear anything on the €200/year nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭ discostu1


    Link to Pippa Hackett here she starts at 6.28 in Even Higher Gas & Electricity Bills in 2022... | Newstalk



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭ graememk


    the 200/yr is a tax free allowance/waiver/something that you don't have to worry about income tax on that.

    I dont know where they Plucked 13.5 from for the CEP, because thats not even been announced yet, only the CEG has been announced with a minimum payout of 0c.

    For businesses its a non issue as it would be an income but then you have expenses against that.


    Depending on how things are, and how the numbers stack up, we have an outfarm that has loads of roof space, that could be viable for panels but id be exporting 80-90% of the power for it to be viable (ie cover the cost of the panels over say 15 yrs and pay for the standing charge at the same time)

    If we didn't have power in that yard already I'd be setting up an off grid setup. But its been in since forever, its not worth taking it out.

    But until things have been put in black and white properly and none of these wishy washy half announcements.. the article cant even get the current seai grant value right.

    >>SEAI grants of up to €2,400 are available to homeowners who wish to install solar panels

    Its 3k, 1800 for solar only, then you can get 600 for a battery, and that then unlocks more money (another 600) for more panels.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    The 13.5c is for non-domestic only.

    They are still sticking with the "competitive market rate" for domestivc Solar PV, which is another way of saying "its up to the electricity provider to set a rate they are comfortable with" and hence you will pick your provider based on who gives you the best deal.

    However. instead of it being a simple figure that you can visualise it will be wrapped up in all their other figures (day, night, standing charges, peak, the need for a smart meter etc) and it will be quite difficult to actually figure out who/where the best deal is unless you have a really good handle on your generation and self-consumption figures and you can put it all together to compare one company with another.

    You will, no doubt, have some very good FiT rates being provided but then they will crucify you on day/peak rates so give with one hand and take with the other.

    I hope the price comparison sites are looking to implement a Solar PV element to their websites.


    but they'd have to remove that limit of €200/year

    Thats staying. Already part of the Budget. Its plenty anyway for domestic, except for a few exceptions where people might have massive roofs but the vast majority with <6kWp wont be exporting €200 worth.


    The big news though is this....

    The grant criteria is changing. BER no longer a requirement and all houses are now eligible so the "build before 2011" thing is gone. Both of those requirements were just stupid so it does look like they listened to the feedback there.

    The rates have changed too

    "grant amounts will be €900/kW up to 2kW and an additional €300/kW between 2kW and 4kW in 2022. The maximum total grant in 2022 will be €2,400... the maximum grant will reduce by €300 on a pro rata basis from 2024 and each year thereafter"

    I think they might be dropping the battery element to the grant... or at least they havent mentioned it so I'd say batteries are gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    If they are killing the battery grant, that would seem very short sighted from me. You can argue about the payback all day long, but I think everyone at least agrees that batteries help "smooth the load" over the 24 hrs. Esp around the 5-8pm window, as that's the time that batteries are most likely to have some charge in them when people come home from work and start "putting on the kettle" etc.

    Really does surprise me if this is the case.

    The €300 reduction on a pro rata from 2024 is also interesting. Reading "behind the lines" there, naturally they don't want to dis-incentivize solar installs, so my thinking is that 2024 is probably when you will see a proper FIT coming on stream.....which also is when the smart meters are supposed to be fully deployed. Pure speculation on my part.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭ graememk


    Ah, After Kcross posted Ive read it a bit more carefully.

    Interesting changes, Wonder when they will be implemented and when the actual grant rules will change. If currently not grant eligible Id be waiting for the new rules to come out.

    Both the home farm (attached to the house) and the outfarm for us anyway are classed as domestic connections in regards to the ESB.

    Maybe the SEAI grant for the outfarm could be a runner, depending on rules.

    I wonder when the suppliers will show their hand on the CEG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭ poker--addict


    • projects between 6kW and 50kW will receive a Clean Export Premium (CEP) tariff per kWh exported, for a period of 15 years, from their electricity supplier. The Clean Export Premium (CEP) will be €0.135/kWh in 2022, which is higher than the current average wholesale electricity price. Any difference between the CEP tariff and wholesale electricity prices will be supported by the Public Service Obligation (PSO) levy. Exported volumes of electricity eligible for the Clean Export Premium (CEP) tariff will be capped at 80% of generation capacity – to incentivise self-consumption.

    Would this apply to domestic setups in excess of 6kw? I have been working off a plan for 7.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭ yankinlk


    "the Clean Export Premium (CEP) is available to non-domestic applicants for installations from 6kW to 50kW" bah

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058094040/pv-feed-in-tariff/p9



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Presumably you will still have a 6kW inverter though which would be the key point?

    I doubt you'll get the CEP for a domestic scenario.

    The consulation had alot of questions/details about CEG vs CEP and its a bit of a surprise that they've decided that CEP is only for non-domestic. There was no hint that that was going to happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Interesting changes, Wonder when they will be implemented and when the actual grant rules will change. If currently not grant eligible Id be waiting for the new rules to come out.

    This is slated for Q2 2022... "Commence transition of existing solar PV domestic grant scheme to MSS grant scheme"

    Based on how they have missed all the announced dates so far I'd be saying that will be summer before we see all the detail and they implement it.


    I wonder when the suppliers will show their hand on the CEG.

    "You can expect an initial payment or credit from your suppliers within a reasonable time after June 2022. The CRU has asked suppliers to communicate their decision on when initial Clean Export Guarantee (CEG) payments will be made – at the earliest opportunity."

    "Earliest opportunity" means nothing really. They'll all hold off as long as they can I'd say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    So, it's still as clear as mud for current under 6kWp domestic users?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭ graememk


    Doesnt look like it. I think it will be down to the ESBN designation of the meter.

    & basically if your classed as domestic there, your domestic. (Just checked the Bill for our outfarm, its DG2. )

    Was able to get a snippet from a DG5 for a local hall, for November, The rate they get charged changes as the wholesale changes.

    Seen a bill from June too, the Energy charge was 11c/kwh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭ Caspero



    If any providers actually do provide a competitive market rate...that would be nice given where power prices have risen to. Colour me skeptical however given how low and punitive (on max units you'll be paid for) that the proposals so far have been for the domestic feed in tariff. We'll see...maybe they surprise us.

    As others have noted if they don't pay fairly people will just find ways to use their surplus by bitcoin mining or using electric heaters/hobs etc instead of ... actually helping with our country's energy shortfall and carbon neutrality goals (not judging - my critique here would be of poorly formed policy that would incentivise that behaviour)





  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ simpsimp


    I just phoned the SEAI to cancel a grant application and asked about the battery grant - according to the guy on the phone, there's no change in 2022 - battery grant is still €600



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    Thanks man for doing that and letting us know. It really would have surprised me if that battery grant was going to be taken away.....all the other things are debatable, but that incentivizes grid smoothing which they need.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,419 ✭✭✭ paulbok


    When is the BER requirement going from?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ simpsimp


    Of course now I get an email from a Solar PV provider saying it's going from 31 December, so I don't know who to believe!



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jonathan




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Seai said last night 21st Dec that grant is NOT going or being reduced .during 2022



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    BER lads gonna lose out their steady PV income stream



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I think they might be dropping the battery element to the grant... or at least they havent mentioned it so I'd say batteries are gone.

    So, that has come to pass. Battery grant is gone for new applicants.


    Support for battery installations will be removed as in future homeowners will be able to avail of the Clean Energy Guarantee offered by Energy Suppliers. Existing battery applications will be processed as normal. Please submit any applications for batteries by CoB on Tuesday 15th February. We will not accept new battery grant applications after this date.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭ graememk


    So with the battery requirement gone, I suppose panels only isn't limited to 1800 anymore.

    I wonder how the 2400 will be scaled now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭ kabakuyu


    No doubt they will tell us the Money saved on battery grants will go towards retro fit scheme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭ yankinlk


    Ouch. Where does this leave the battery market? Will prices get cheaper since the grant is gone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    Doubtful as battery prices are coming from China, Germany etc and the payment of grant in Ireland wouldn't affect the trade price worldwide



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    It might.

    Less demand equals lower prices.

    You are going to get a lot of people getting solar pv now without a battery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭ yankinlk


    I agree. I think there could be a battery glut for a while - but i suspect after a year or so there will be battery regret as well!


    What do we think the new formula will be?

    The old one was:

    €1k per 1kWp in panels + €1K per 2.5kWh in battery + €500 (diverter/Eddi) = Rough price to pay.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Batteries are like a commodity, this tiny islands removal of grant will have diddly squat impact on cost



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