Motor Tax stole a week from me....

fortwilliam

My car tax was due on 18.12 so I went online and payed the fee to renew it for the full year,

I got the disc yesterday and it is valid from 09.12... WTF?

I have lost a week of motor tax??

I am also "Double taxed for 9 days??"

How is this?

Presumably it was renewed from that date and therefore expires on the 9th.

Mr E

Motor tax is monthly, no? 01, 02, 03 etc.

The exact date doesn't matter.

fortwilliam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310261#Comment_118310261

Nope, it is daily.. valid now from 09.12.21 to 09.12.2022...

Allinall

Motor tax is monthly.

There is no paying for part of a month.

It is always due from 01st of a month and expires on the last day of a month.

OP, you haven’t been done out of anything.

delboythedub

I was unable to tax my car on line last week with motor tax online which i have done for many years. I get to stage 6 Pay now and swipe the acknowledgement on bank mobile App and then motortax.ie say i have bank problems. Phoned tax office and told to download RF100 form and post it in. anyone else have same problem

delboythedub

stopthevoting

You were mistaken in thinking that it was due from 18.12, and mistaken in thinking that it is valid now from 09.12.21 to 09.12.2022.

There is a month and year printed in a very large font on the top part of the tax disc. The tax is paid up to the last day of that month.

There is a date printed beside the make of car in the lower part of the tax disc. That is the date that the tax disc was issued, ie the date that the transaction was processed. This could be any date of the month, depending on whether you pay early or late or on the exact date.

In this picture the tax is paid up until the last day of November 2022.

It was paid ON the 2nd of December 2021 but it was DUE from 1st December 2021.

fortwilliam

@Stopthevoting Well explained, cheers.

It does seem a bit jarring though.

corner of hells

Drive your car in reverse at speed past a couple of speed vans and cameras , that'll sort everything for you.

murpho999

I really don't understand in this day and age why our windscreens are clogged up with up to three ridiculous sized paper discs for Tax, Insurance and NCT.

Number plates can be scanned by Gardai in their cars to see if tax has been paid. They should add insurance and NCT to that therefore take out whole lot of admin and get rid of discs and save a few trees in the process.

Creamy Goodness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313570#Comment_118313570

I agree somewhat, however being in a crash 2 years ago (am all good) when the guards arrived they checked that everyone was ok and then said they wanted nothing to do with the crash and to sort it out between "ourselves". The culprit was being arse-y not admitting blame (he rear-ended me), If I hadn't taken a photo of his insurance disc and reported the crash to mine/his insurance I would have been out of pocket to the tune of €5k. Seems like a small inconvenience to me to not have me out of pocket.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313614#Comment_118313614

You could report the accident to your insurance with just the other driver's reg number in the exact same way, and they'd instantly be able to identify the other person's insurer. Anyway the insurance disk is only one of the three. Other than when buying a car, most people don't need to know someone else's NCT or motor tax status. So even if we kept the insurance disk and dropped the other two (you'd still have the certs to show when selling the car), it would be a 2/3 improvement.

I guess the assumption would be that when removing the 3 disks from the window, there would be some alternative way of getting all this information. If for privacy reasons they didn't want to implement a reg number lookup for the general public to access, an alternative could be a simple QR code that you display on the windscreen or reg plate that you could then scan on your phone and would lead you to an online service that displays all the details. No different from accessing the information that's publicly displayed on vehicles currently. The QR code could even be assigned to the particular car for life, and the ownership and compliance data just updated centrally, so no need to issue the code yearly. Many other countries don't have disks on the widows. The UK started phasing out the tax disk in 2014, but they never had a requirement to display Insurance or MOT.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313570#Comment_118313570

Agreed. The Brits did away with having to display discs. One of the few things we should follow them on.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313614#Comment_118313614

But if the system was changed to being linked to the reg plate of the car then you wouldn't need the disc photo in the first place. Just no need for them. People manage this just fine in other countries.

Also, no need to call Gardai for minor road accidents either, never understand why people do that, block roads as well as if it's a major crime scene that needs preserving for forensic examination.

Just move to the side, exchange details and sort things out. If one acts the maggot then get reg plate photos.

Creamy Goodness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315227#Comment_118315227

Yup fair point, I guess in my shock I just went straight to photographing the disc, the Gard's arrived because 999 was called as it was a 3-way sandwich and the driver in front was injured, anyways I'm digressing entirely :)

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118314260#Comment_118314260

The reason we didn't is because of the poor outcome seen in the UK, at least in the first few years after the change.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-01-23/505/

As you may be aware, the abolition of the motor tax disc took effect in the U.K. from 1 October 2014. In that jurisdiction, a vehicle excise duty evasion survey is carried out on a bi-annual basis. The results of the survey carried out in 2015, the first following the abolition of the disc, found that the rate of unlicensed vehicles observed on the road was much higher than had been observed in the previous survey in 2013, prior to the abolition of the disc. The survey concluded that the increase was probably due to the changes in the vehicle licensing system which took effect from October 2014, which included the abolition of the disc. The 2017 survey, published on 16 November 2017, found that the rate of unlicensed vehicles observed on the road had increased since the 2015 survey.

Fattybojangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118314260#Comment_118314260

That has been an absolute disaster over there since they've done it compliance gone way down etc.

RandomViewer

Having the discs on the window make progress at Garda checkpoints quicker, quick glance and a wave rather than sitting waiting with questionable WiFi on a computer result

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315992#Comment_118315992

It may have dropped their tax take but it's the obvious way to go. Everything automated and linked. I've only seen one checkpoint in my life here (10+ years), with the ANPR system, you just get a fine sent straight to your door. Tolls, congestion charges, everything - direct to your door! The future is here, and it's bloody expensive!

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315992#Comment_118315992

Lol. Personally I'd call that a success.

billyhead

Sure there's a load of cars on the roads that are untaxed anyway and hardly ever a Garda to be seen.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315992#Comment_118315992

I don't see why? Car is registered to an owner and address. The registration records if taxed or not and you prosecute/fine people who don't pay.

It's very simple.

Lived in Netherlands, car tax paid online linked to registration. I don't see how a disc offers anything that an accessible database doesn't . We don't have to copy stuff that the UK does or think their failures would be failures here.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313570#Comment_118313570

September 2020 in a Dail question/answer, the number of Garda cars fitted with ANPR was given as 76. So I don't think we have reached the point or anywhere near it to dispense with the discs. And simply failing to display a current disc is in itself an offence, separate from not paying.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2020-09-29/713/

I am informed by the Garda authorities that as at the 28 September 2020, there are 76 vehicles equipped with in car video/ANPR capability. 74 of these are attached to frontline Roads Policing Units and 2 are used for test purposes. Overall these vehicles make up approximately 24% of the Roads Policing Fleet.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317367#Comment_118317367

Strange how people only see problems and not solutions. If they change the system then they will have to buy more equipment costs probably be offset by admin savings with paper discs.It's not just about Garda cars having ANPR but access to a database.

The point is to shift away from the gardai looking for people who do not pay their motor tax which is a complete waste of Garda time in my opinion but let the department prosecute non payers.

So with your car registration it is recorded if taxed, insured and NCT (if required) if not then you are pursued. This is how it works in other countries, where you never see police checkpoints checking for motor tax. Checkpoints focus on more important things like drink driving, seatbelts, car safety etc,.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058222534/motor-tax-stole-a-week-from-me

its only the month that is relevant

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318769#Comment_118318769

I really don't understand in this day and age why our windscreens are clogged up with up to three ridiculous sized paper discs for Tax, Insurance and NCT.

That is what you posted, and to me it is you who is making a problem which does not need a solution. Your solution would need to be cost benefit analysed, and you are just making a guess about that. Even if it becomes the solution, it won't stop some people breaking the law.

I don't pay much attention to people who claim to know a lot about what happens in other countries. Even if they lived abroad, I don't see any reason for them having much more than a passing knowledge of motor taxation anywhere else. Same as I have for Ireland. Unless they worked in motor tax administration, or road policing.

abff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058222534/motor-tax-stole-a-week-from-me

While the OP was incorrect in his assertion that he had been double charged for a few days, the overlap issue definitely arises in relation to driving licences. I got a reminder yesterday that my licence is due to expire next month and it stated that a new licence would be valid from the date of application and that any time left on my old one will not be applied to my new driving licence.

By adopting this approach, they are effectively forcing you to have an overlap, as you would need to allow time for the licence to be issued. I’m pretty sure the same issue arises if you get a new passport. I know the amounts involved are relatively small, but it’s annoying!

Does anyone know how long it takes to get a new licence? I’m hoping to travel abroad in January (COVID restrictions permitting) and will be hiring a car, so I can’t afford to be without a current licence.

dxhound2005

You would be better to research that yourself, as you could get wrong answers here. This website is a good place to start.

https://www.ndls.ie/licensed-driver/renew-my-driving-licence.html

Until such a time as people need to register their car in person, with identification and proof of address, any database is pointless.

abff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320046#Comment_118320046

Thanks. I was hoping to hear from someone with recent experience as I find that timelines set out in government websites are not always 100% accurate.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319916#Comment_118319916

I don't know what you're getting at to be honest.

I'm saying that the system should change and tax insurance and NCT , which is already linked to the Car registration should be the driver (see what I did there) for catching people who do not pay through computer systems and not gardai standing at checkpoints reading discs.

Taking out an entire system to process and issue discs is bound to save money. That's not a guess it's simple logic. Then the department would only need to contact people who have not paid.

You stated that garda cars are not equipped enough but I have said that they're not really required as they should be tackling more serious crimes and road safety issues than motor tax.

As for your what goes on in other countries comment, again strange as we should look to best practices in other countries to adopt and adapt what works. I don't see the problem with it.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321070#Comment_118321070

Checkpoints checking for tax,NCT, insurance along with increasing compliance are a useful way for the Gardai to be seen policing without getting too many peoples backs up, the guard gets a good whiff of the inside of the car when you lower the window so it's a handy way to catch the random drug/drink driver.

Problem with any new system in this country is some crony will have to get a bailout and the system will likely be obsolete or a donkey to use,

stopthevoting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320016#Comment_118320016

"Does anyone know how long it takes to get a new licence? I’m hoping to travel abroad in January (COVID restrictions permitting) and will be hiring a car, so I can’t afford to be without a current licence."

For me, the timeline of my last licence was as follows: Old licence was valid until 29/01/2018. Applied on 30/01/18. Issue date of new licence was 30/01/18. New licence sent with a cover letter dated 02/02/18, which arrived by post on 07/02/18.

Timeline of a licence for a family member was: Old licence was valid until 15/10/2018. Applied on 09/10/18. Issue date of new licence was 09/10/18. New licence sent with a cover letter dated 12/10/18, which arrived by post on 17/10/18.

So before Covid times it took over a week to arrive. I don't know how long it takes now.

I had no plans for travelling abroad so I wasn't worried about not having my licence in my possession. But if I knew I needed it abroad I would have made sure to apply in good time. A few days or weeks overlap over the ten-year lifespan is better than taking the risk of it not arriving in time.

And there are 3 bank holidays in between, and a very busy period for the post office.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321857#Comment_118321857

Again this is a dated mindset in my opinion.

First of all there are hardly any checkpoints of any description. Before Covid I'd only come across one checkpoint in about 10 years. That changed with Covid where there were plenty of checkpoints to check people's movements and it worked. They didn't bother checking tax NCT etc.

This proves that checkpoints can be done and give a sense of policing.

Secondly as random breath checks are now legal they don't need a reason to check you or to use pretense of checking tax to get window wound down and smell the car.

Just set up random checkpoints and check people with breathalyzers. Simple, done in 30 seconds and I can't imagine any compliant driver would have an issue with it so they don't have to worry about getting people's backs up.

There should be more of them imho as people driving intoxicated is a bigger issue and far more dangerous than people having valid discs in their windows.

irelandrover

You could easily move tax and NCT to an online based system. Every car is already registered to someone. When they tax is due then they get a reminder. It should be very very obvious which cars do not have tax and an NCT. It is the way it works in the Netherlands. If my car does not have tax or an NCT then I get a fine in the post. There is no possible way to get away without having them.

abff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321870#Comment_118321870

Thanks. I decided to go online yesterday to renew my licence. I was told I had to have a MyGovID account, so I registered for this. It asked for my licence details so that I could register straight away, but my licence was issued before the new system came into force, so I had to ask for a PIN to be posted to me. Hopefully, this will arrive before Christmas.

Whether I actually manage to get away in January remains to be seen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324038#Comment_118324038

'Every car is registered to someone '

Yes it is, but there is no requirement to register your car in person with identification and proof of address.

which is why there are thousands of cars registered to fictitious people and addresses.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324038#Comment_118324038

Isn't tax already online? I haven't visited a tax office in over a decade myself.

StupidLikeAFox

If you wanted to be really efficient you could expand the remit of the go safe vans to do a tax/insurance/nct check as well as speed

ebbsy

Remember AH in the good ould days ????

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326298#Comment_118326298

Yes but they still send out discs, and there is just no need which is what is being discussed.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326239#Comment_118326239

Any proof to back this up about fictitious addresses and names?

How would they get the vehicles insured then? As any insurance company I deal with ask for proof of address.

Therefore if the system was fed into by insurance companies then you could have a system that captures all cars that are uninsured , not taxed or registered correctly without need for any discs or Gardai checking windscreens.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330194#Comment_118330194

Only the proof that I see it on a daily basis.

do you think the people that register their car to fictitious names and addresses are law abiding citizens who care about insurance.

And the insurance company asks you for proof of address? Never happens to me. Neither does your car have to be registered to the address you insure it to.

do you think every car in the country is registered correctly?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330187#Comment_118330187

Not the original subject. And only a few people have ventured an opinion. If tax discs was the subject of widespread public objection, or even concern, there would be plenty of online discussion. Maybe there is in the Motoring forum, I haven't looked. As I said a solution for a problem that does not exist.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330888#Comment_118330888

It's not about public objection or problems. That's not how you achieve progress. Wait till people object then make a change.

The point is efficiencies and improvements. Technology exists now to make tax discs redundant and it would also be more efficient for Gardai to take the duty off them as there would be no need to check cars on roads as the system will know that the car is not taxed.

The approach you take is just stifling innovation and different thinking.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330294#Comment_118330294

So now it's all anecdotal. What proof do you see unless it's in your line of work?

People who are commiting fraud as you describe would be a very very small minority.

Either way in the last two years I have changed car insurance and I had to verify identity and address.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331777#Comment_118331777

It is in my line of work.

And if you're hit by a uninsured car registered to a fictitious name and address, you won't care how much in the 'minority ' they are. Or if you own a petrol station and one of these cars fills up and drives off without payment, you won't care how much of a minority it is. Etc etc, you get the gist.

It makes sense to have people register their car in person with proof of address and identification, I don't know why it doesn't happen.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332445#Comment_118332445

Ok, but I still don't see how having a disc in the window will change anything that you are talking about but I still believe that the vast majority of people have legit cars on the road fully insured and pay for their petrol

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326426#Comment_118326426

Subcontracting out to the rest home for retired guards, not happening