Old Farmhouse renovation

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318015#Comment_118318015

That man knows his stuff, he has a great book on stone walling as well, slightly off topic but recommend it for anyone interested in the subject.

https://obrien.ie/irish-stone-walls

Could be a good Christmas pressie.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317371#Comment_118317371

Yes AFAIK needs PP and a test pit with engineer's report for soakage.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308272#Comment_118308272

Isn't the BER rating an assessment of running costs per sq meter???

High BER rated homes should only require heating for the coldest Winter months, and at that very little.

A neighbour refurbished his house recently, his advice was it would be cheaper build new.

Melodeon

This thread reminds me of the family story of when my parents were getting married and my father was considering what to do about a house.

3 generations of the family at that point (my father and his siblings, my grandparents, and my great-grandparents) had been born, lived, and died in a quite large 2 story thatched farmhouse on the farm that I've lived on and called home for my whole lifetime.

In the early 1940's, my grandfather bought another farm a few miles away, complete with a much better house, and as the old house here was falling into disrepair, the entire family decamped to the new place, lock stock and barrel.

The original farm became the outfarm and the old house fell into further disrepair, being used for general farm storage and shelter in bad weather.

Roll on to 1958, and my father was to be married, and he and my (future!) mother were going to set up home back on the original family farm.

What to do about a house?

As the family story goes, my father, his older brother, and their uncle (their own father having died some years previously) stood in the yard looking at the decrepit old house and came to a decision.

A few bales of straw, a bucket of diesel, and a box of matches later, and the old house was no longer an issue.

Their builder levelled off the site, and the house I've called home for my lifetime was built over the remains.

Whenever we do any groundworks around here now, we still find sections of old foundation, brick, rubble, broken crockery, bits of lead plumbing, etc, all remnants and reminders of what used to stand on the site.

I sometimes wonder what the old house would've been like to live in, had it been renovated?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318768#Comment_118318768

Ber has much to do about renewable energy sources as running costs. However the real catch is when older hous are rated. Old stone walls are treated as block walls with an uninsulated cavity. Houses build with block and a cavity are treated with what ever was the insulation standard at the time. A lot to f people got insulation blown I to cavities 10+ years ago especially with older houses unless they can show receipts for what they did the houses is treated as if it was build to 60's or 70's standard.

I insulated my house to a high standards in the early 90"s, the standard I used was only exceeded in the regs bough in 10ish years ago. My house would be rated to the 1990's standard.

Electric convection or storage heating will probably give you a lower BER than oil or solid fuel and everybody know which is cheaper to run. A lot of solid fuel stoves are treated as if they burn coal all the time. The list is endless.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118316098#Comment_118316098

No bad thing. There's some awful looking houses built here that will never blend in or look right in the landscape.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318658#Comment_118318658

If every older house was knocked and replaced just because it was cheaper and easier our built heritage would be the poorer for it. It's nice to see someone putting effort into say a thatched cottage, that was a the iconic picture-postcard house at one time, there's very, very few left now.

mr.stonewall

Really enjoying this thread. Some fantastic work done by posters and most of us have the dream of restoring a building. Hope to see more ideas

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058222366/old-farmhouse-renovation

The farmhouse, it's design and workmanship belong to the 18/19th century, like all old buildings it's has it's history but has outlived it's practical usefulness. In reality after gutting it you're left with just a pile of stone, chances are roof timbers has dry / wet rot, slates loose, missing etc. and have to be replaced. Ask yourself : Is it really worth salvaging ?

My advise is strip roof carefully and save as many of the Blue Bangor slates as possible (They can be brittle) Demolish all walls, clean all reuseable stone of mortar etc. and stockpile. Design a traditional type house but up to present day building regs. re. insulaion, heating etc. etc. with traditional design double hung up & down windows (available in white uPVC) on cut stone cills. Use salvaged slates on roof and the stone as exterior dry wall skin of building, outside the standard 150mm cavity wall. The roof and walls will be your link to the past.

If funds allow you can carry the traditional design to the interior with a big open, stone built fireplace, pine ceilings, old world type furniture in kitchen, bedrooms etc. the options are endless, but can be expensive.

This will ensure that you'll have a twenty first century house with links to the past that will last for perhaps another 200 years

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324800#Comment_118324800

Wait till you get a quote from a stonemason to build a cutstone wall ( even with stone provided ). Just on new houses being made to look old ( bits of stonework on porches, small windows etc ) this really annoys me. The people before us built with materials available ( slates someplaces, thatch others, stone walls and mud walls were stone wasn't easily got) If they had the materials we have now they would have used them to the full. Let old be old and new be new.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324844#Comment_118324844

Go on - what's a stone mason cost these days?

Not even sure how they charge - is it per sq metre of wall?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324844#Comment_118324844

I agree 100% but the reality is that almost all buildings have a limited lifespan, and even if the OP decides to retain the existing house and repair it he/she will have to introduce modern materials - plumbing, insulation, heating, electrical etc. etc. so it's not practically possible to let old be old and new be new. Chances are that the roof has to be stripped and replaced, chimney stacks may have to be knocked, rebuilt etc. So the finished product may look, at first glance, like the original house but it's only a deception........just like what I recommended ! By re using the stone, slate etc. the new house would blend into the countryside just like the one it replaced. Of course it could be roofed with a green tin roof similar to a recent bungalow bliss TV programme !! designed by so called architects.

If the OP is a family man/woman and spending a serious amount of cash she/he must have a eye to the future as well as the past. Most children would prefer to inherit a modern & warm easy to maintain house (even if the exterior design is traditional) than a cold, damp one with rising damp, cold damp walls which in reality is impossible to remedy and a multitude of other problems associated with centuries old buildings.

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325915#Comment_118325915

neighbour got a bill for over 6k to rebuild 5 feet and pier of entrance wall after a tractor hit it ( mine unfortunately 😥 )

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326039#Comment_118326039

You're probably right but I wouldn't rebuild stone walls if I knocked the originals ( very rare to see work that comes close to original ) . Think dermot bannon did 1 house years ago and did a new glass and concrete modern extension onto old stone building and thought it looked v good. I think history of people who lived in old farmhouses is maintained by leaving old as much as possible ( esp if you have old photos of them in front of said building

Jim_11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325915#Comment_118325915

By the m2, anywhere from 60-180/m2. And dearer most certainly does not mean better. With every new house having a bit of a stone porch or sunroom they’re in high demand. A friend of a friend is a ‘stonemason’ these days, he’s been doing bits over the years at it, I saw some of his work recently, it was rough out but the owner was happy as Larry with it! Most people are happy with a bit of colour and couldn’t tell a good job from a bad one

Bog Man 1

I consider myself a conservationist in that I would conserve what is good and knock what is bad . If a building was badly built it should be knocked . The houses I was involved with were well built in the first place even if one side of the house sank by four inches but the roof was redone two hundred and thirty years ago and it was built to compensate for the subsidence . The internal doors are a bit low and all timber is sound with no deterioration in the forty two years I have been in it . Most flat roofs have a 25 year life span so if I had put in a Dermot Bannon flat roof I would have been redoing it while sending kids to third level . It is the oldest house and the warmest on the road . It is a shade over 2000sq ft and some of the newer houses are 3000sq feet of misery .

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326316#Comment_118326316

A neighbour got a bill for 10000 to rebuild my front wall, it wasn't stone but very ornamental, the assesor was happy enough at the price. It was only about 20ft but we got the rest of the walls modernised and upgraded forthat price rather than putting the twenty feet back like the original. The rest of the fancy capping was in a bad way

kk.man

One would want to be careful dashing these stone properties. We had a old stone mason here years back (great craftsman) he always maintained that the property sometimes can't breathe this the cause of damp in old builds.

On a side note a fella building a single storey dwelling got an updated quote for his new roof it was uped by 50k... price of everything gone mad!

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356359#Comment_118356359

Must be some roof to have gone up by 50k. 50k would do a fair roof, never mind the original price plus 50k.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356910#Comment_118356910

What size roof?

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357097#Comment_118357097

Tbh I don't know but from the road it looks a large dwelling, I got the impression it's not a straight forward job.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318897#Comment_118318897

I was reared in a old rambling brick (made here by hand with macamore clay) and stone. Cold,damp, dark with mice rats and bats for company. Alway bits done by handy men over the years but never anything “finished”. A solid fuel Rayburn fitted in where the open fire was. Central heating however was central to keeping your clothes on!

My mother always done her best but it was always a losing battle to keep wallpaper up. It would follow you down the stairs.. concrete homes are better built homes as far as I’m concerned!

MikeSoys

What were costing for the refurbishments per square ft? I'm looking into doing up a old 2 story farmhouse..

Tileman

Mikesoy you will probably get more accurate costings in the construction forum. They have a thread on live builds. But they are saying the cost at moment is 4€k for new builds and €2k Sqs for refurb .

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557049#Comment_121557049

It's not gone that dear. New builds are about 2.2k/ sq meter from a builder, self build about 1.6k/ sqM that is to a decent level finish

Refurbs vary depending on what needs doing and if you can complete some of it yourself or not but I say about self build price.

Bit if stand off at present between builders and trades men. The trades wete trying to push up prices but builders not will to start projects at those prices

MikeSoys

Okay thanks for info.. Guys

Tileman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557127#Comment_121557127

yea there might be a good bit of Dublin 4 pricing in their pricing. Watching AD development s over Xmas. He is a Uk builder. Very good channel. They built the houses quite different over there compared to here. Anyway they are seeing a huge amount of sites slowing down and work slowing substantially. Wonder will we see English builders coming over here for work and reversing a trend of 100 years.

tikka16751

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559280#Comment_121559280

As long as plantations continue then yes.

Who2

Work is drying up a small bit and has been the last few months, it’s not really a stand off as such but more of a reality check. Things have got too expensive for the normal person. Private one offs are nearly a thing of the past so renovations and site work seems to be the way works going.

older by the day

I suppose there are a few questions to ask here.

Is it worth doing up? Take a few pictures and put them up. It's not sounding great, no foundation, ceiling height etc.

How much work are you willing to do, don't underestimate the time it will take.

Labor and building supplies are very expensive at the moment, will they come down I wonder

If everyone says to knock it, put up a few pictures