Is Ireland Racist?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297384#Comment_118297384

 Rittenhouse specifically chose to go to the scene of the killings because he was against the actions of the anti-racism protesters - which rightly or wrongly brings racism into the discussion

This is fake news propagated by the likes of MSNBC and CNN so not really your fault. Rittenhouse was there that night defending a minority owned business. The Khindris owned the car lot and testified in court. So, no, racism should never have been brought into the conversation.

Rittenhouse is also hispanic. I'm not saying hispanic people can't be racist, of course they can, but it certainly detracts from the white supremacist narrative you've heard inecessantly, doesn't it?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299235#Comment_118299235

This is all bullshit though because rittenhouse is an American and nothing to do with this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299262#Comment_118299262

Indeed that's an interesting way of deflecting. You could have chosen the person who brought Rittenhouse up, but preferred to reply to me correcting what they said.

The reason why racism in america is related to 'is ireland racist' is because there are several interpretations of what racism is. Many are accusing Ireland of being racist by american standards, I just want to show how ridiculous these standards are.

You have a hispanic kid being called a white supremacist for defending a minority owned business, just because BLM were out 'protesting' that night. It makes no sense at all. The defenders will say he is supporting a system made for white supremacy and that he has internalized racism and whatnot but it's all a load of nonsense.

Shilock

There was a time here in Ireland when a foreigner comes to town and they're welcome, interesting and blend in quite well with the locals.

We swapped stories about our culture's and we played football in the local green area, I can remember playing football with teen-agers from Russia, Libya, Chile and Cuba in Shannon during the 80's there was no racism back then we didn't even hear of the word.

The first time I was exposed to racism was in the TV show Roots... that was shocking.

Fr Tod Umptious

One thing about Ireland is that immigration is relatively new.

Pre 1997 it was almost non existent.

Thus we have been a very mono-cultural society up to very recently.

So I think we are a long away from really discovering just how racist a people we are.

Give it another 50 years and see if there is a burgeoning right wing, anti immigration political movements etc.

Time will tell.

rock22

Perhaps more xenophobia than racism, but the Irish Times has an article this morning Brianna Parkins: Every three months or so I’m reminded I’m not quite Irish enough (irishtimes.com) which reflects the experience of many foreigners in Ireland.

It certainly seems that some are no longer so welcoming .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297992#Comment_118297992

actually there is Traveller accomdation in Booterstown, Blackrock, and Shankill, along with Clonskeagh, and Monkstown

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/adopted_tap_2019-2024.pdf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299728#Comment_118299728

"When I’m in Australia I feel Irish and when I’m in Ireland I feel Australian."

I think if you asked any mixed race person this is what they'd tell you. People see differences before they see similarities.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299728#Comment_118299728

Which is common throughout the world. In most countries, foreigners who gain residency or citizenship are considered by the locals not to be fully <insert nationality>. You really think that if you move to live in Poland, or Zimbabwae, that people will treat you the same as a native? They won't. You'll always be a foreigner, regardless of your legal status.

It's only in Europe that there's an expectation that people will be accepted the same as natives... even though, in many cases, they won't be. I've friends who have settled in Germany, speak German perfectly, but they'll still be considered as foreign. Because they are. You can't wipe away the differences in culture and perception with a piece of paper.

The difference I would say, is that most Irish people don't bother thinking about it all that much, and so, the difference is passed by quietly. However, we now live in an era where the differences are promoted. Minorities are held up as different, demanding recognition, and help because they are minorities... and so, they have to be seen as different. And yet, at the same time, we're all expected to accept them completely, the same as Irish natives. It's an expectation for people to accept contradictions. They're different (when it comes to recognition, and benefits), but the same (when it comes to nationality, and more).

There's also the aspect that when immigration is a relatively new thing, people are more friendly because the groups arriving are new. But as time goes by, more negative experiences are associated with the migrant/foreign group, and perceptions change...

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299330#Comment_118299330

I called out the most recent post at the time discussing rittenhouse. You can type all the whataboutism you want but Rittenhouse has **** all to do with whether or not there is racism in Ireland or if Ireland is racist..

I was not calling you specifically out but this bullshit discussion about rittenhouse and stupid American firearms laws doesn't belong in this discussion on racism in Ireland

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300031#Comment_118300031

Neither does discussing travellers, yet you'll not protest that.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300043#Comment_118300043

Travellers are defined as an ethnic minority in Ireland, live in ireland and suffer prejudice in Ireland. So yeah I think they are valid in a discussion on Racism in Ireland

Rittenhouse is just bullshit deflection and whataboutism and nothing to do with the topic.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299961#Comment_118299961

This post boils down to other countries are racist so Ireland should be too.

Should Ireland not aspire to be more progressive than countries like Zimbabwe and Poland. Are humans forever shackled with the attitudes of the past or can we change?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297992#Comment_118297992

Ok for start Dun Laoghaire would not be considered a rich area, there are pockets, but drive or walk around areas of it to really see it.

Ever been in Sandyford village ?

Oh and wasn't/isn't the major halting site beside the industrial estate and ESB yard (as good as Leopardstown) not anywhere near most housing.

By Carrickmines I presume you mean Glenamuck road where the site was half way up much nearer the former corporation housing in Kilternan.

There weren't that many houses along that road until recently, hell it was like driving a country road until 20 years ago.

Wasn't Booterstown/Blackrock down beside railway line, not anywhere near say Mount Merrion Avenue, Cross Avenue, Carysfort Avenue, Newtownpark Avenue ?

Where is there halting site in Foxrock ?

Where are the halting sites in Clontarf, Sutton, Howth, Dalkey, Kiliney ?

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299908#Comment_118299908

People have been saying that but theres not been much evidence presented yet, unless you too overheard someone say a footballer wasn't very good ? Then its case closed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299908#Comment_118299908

Ireland doesn't have a racist society. Travellers are probably the most protected group in this country, receiving a wide range of benefits/supports based entirely on their status as Travellers. Just as there are other benefits for minority groups. If Irish society was deeply racist, then, there wouldn't be any of those benefits or supports, and they would be systematically discriminated against. Which they're not.

The truth is that most Irish people have little contact with Travellers or other minority groups, beyond seeing them in the street, or whatever. And so, they're not in any kind of position to be racist. They might have negative opinions of Travellers or other groups based on media reports, or stories told by friends, which could be considered racist... but then, everyone in the world could be considered racist then. Everyone has their biases (acquired from parents, education/history, etc) towards other cultural/ethnic groups....

Beasty

This thread is about racism in Ireland - drop discussion of racist incidents elsewhere

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300108#Comment_118300108

https://www.ihrec.ie/app/uploads/2020/12/IHREC-Survey-Results.pdf

35% of people surveyed have witnessed racism in Ireland in the past 12 months in a survey taken in December last year.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300156#Comment_118300156

I'd love to know what constitutes racism because using this thread as a small sample pool the bar is very low indeed. But aside from that, from that same report:

90% agree that people should be treated equally no matter who they are or where they come from, with only 3% stating ‘disagree strongly’ or ‘disagree slightly’

79% ‘agree strongly/slightly’ that Ireland benefits from being a more inclusive and diverse society, with less than 1 in 10 (7%) stating they ‘disagree strongly/slightly’

LOL so thats a strong No to Is Ireland racist ?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300112#Comment_118300112

I find it incomprehensible that anyone could claim Ireland is systemically racist when it goes out of it's way to cater for non Irish, and non Europeans/non EU citizens.

The amount of supports and funding given to asylum seekers/refugees/migrants who for the most part are non white would immediately negate the concept of systemic racism.

Then add into the mix the amount of work visas given to non white immigrants as another indication that we as a state are not racist.

Then look at private sector employment, and not just the major multinationals but small Irish indigenous companies, that have staff from many different races from all around the world.

Yes some individual Irish people can be racist in their outlook. This is fact and it is irrefutable.

Hell remember all those comments from some about the Eastern Europeans coming to take all our jobs and they are white and often catholics not black or brown non christians.

But to the thorny subject of travellers and the suposed main evidence we are as racist as some hicks from deepest Alabama.

BTW I don't see travellers as being a different race or ethnic group.

Just because people often limit selection of a spouse to a distinct group does not make them a different ethnic group.

Hell if it did then there would be a lot of different ethnic groups dotted around the country. Not mentioning any particular towns here.

Yes they face negative discrimination, not from authorities where they enjoy a huge level of positive discrimination, but from ordinary people.

A lot of people just seem to throw out the racist moniker or the other modern go to about NOT ALL, rather than really devle into why this group of people have such a negative standing in our society.

And it is because so many of us have had just overwhelmingly negative interactions with travellers, not just one or two but most, and not just one incident but many.

And then to top it off we see them get preferential treatment from authorities all at the expense of our taxes.

I know people that got repremanded for burning vegetation, farmers questioned by authorities about animal welfare, yet you pass a traveller halting site and it looks like an oilfield onfire during the Gulf War and lets not even bother mentioning travellers and the words animal welfare.

Why should travellers get to demand accommodation that affords them housing for their animals?

Why should they be tolerated not sending their kids to school in this day and age?

There is huge amount of state authorities granting preferential treatment to travellers whilst the rest of us law abiding citizens get sh** on from a height if we dared attempt similar.

Add all that to the violence, the littering, the disregard for personal property, the antisocial behaviour and still some people wonder why a lot of us can't stand the sight of them as a group.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300415#Comment_118300415

Ahh well, I'd say if people were really concerned with combating racism or discrimination, then they would be seeking a society where race/ethnicity didn't matter at all. That everyone would be treated equally, except when it came down to their individual needs/circumstances for support. Instead, we see these demands that Travellers (or minority groups) receive ever more recognition and support as a group, which reinforces the impression that the group is lacking in some way, rather than it being about individuals.

Never really understood the logic that says, we're going to treat <insert group> different from everyone else, but we expect everyone else to treat them the same. You must treat them different when it is positive/beneficial to that group, but you're a racist if you treat them differently in any other way. Oh, and criticism of that group is racist... but criticism of your own ethnic group by minority groups is not racist.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300243#Comment_118300243

420 people out of 1200 have witnessed racism in the last 12 months in Ireland.

So indeed one metric says that Ireland is not racist but it does not mean there is no racism in Ireland. As shown by a significant portion being witness to an incident they deem to be racist in the past 12 months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300788#Comment_118300788

I don't think anyone on this thread ever said there was no racism in ireland. That would be a ridiculous position to hold.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300823#Comment_118300823

So racism is an issue in Ireland great thanks for the input.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300788#Comment_118300788

So that is quite different to the question in the thread title "Is Ireland racist ? "

You seem to be answering the question, do racist incidents happen in Ireland ? A different discussion altogether.

And to the study it would be helpful to see a breakdown of what criteria an incident needs to meet to be classed as a racist incident. Another interesting bit of info would be the races of those involved and which is accused of being the offender and which the victim.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300838#Comment_118300838

There are racists in Ireland. Ireland is not racist.

RobbieTheRobber

If I am racially abused in Ireland is that racism in Ireland?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300896#Comment_118300896

Yes.

It still wouldn't make Ireland racist.

If I was beaten by up by a black man, would it be ok to say definitively to say that as a whole blacks are violent?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300838#Comment_118300838

Racism is an issue in every country in the world in that case.

And as others have quite well pointed out to you, there is a major difference between saying there are some racists and racist incidents in Ireland as opposed to Ireland is racist.

I always find it illuminating how people with your opinion will shout and scream it is NOT ALL, you can't tar everyone with the same brush, you can't stereotype based on a few when it suits your argument and you then try pull the same move in different circumstances.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300932#Comment_118300932

What defines Ireland for you is it just the land, or do you include the Irish people when talking about Ireland as an entity?

Do the actions of Irish people represent the entity of Ireland?

We haven’t really had anyone on this thread report their own experiences of racism. Maybe nobody wants to talk about their own experience or maybe it’s just l group of white Irish people on this thread arguing about racism.

Id be fairly sure it happens but how much is the question. From my own experience I haven’t heard a racist joke in years, i also haven’t heard any racist comments from people like I might have 30 years ago. But that’s just my experience.

No. Not an individual action anyway. That would be absurd. Societal laws and behaviours perhaps. People and society in general in Ireland rightfully do not tolerate and vilify racist behaviour and attitudes.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301011#Comment_118301011

Has there ever been a country that has been racist in your view?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301151#Comment_118301151

America certainly used to be.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301180#Comment_118301180

And why would you define America as having been racist and during what period are we talking so I can better understand your definition on what makes a country racist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301197#Comment_118301197

They had segregation based on skin colour and people were not afforded the same rights under laws based on their skin colour.

jmayo

Was just looking at web trying to find above report on racism and came upon INAR.

Here is the blurb from the website

Irish Network Against Racism (INAR) is a membership organisation. Our strength is in our Members, a growing, national Network of diverse Civil Society Organisations committed to combating racism and all related forms of discrimination in every sphere of life in Ireland. We are dedicated to finding common strategies and policy positions for combating racism, finding ways of complementing each other’s work, and to offering cross-community and cross-sectoral support and solidarity.

Fair enough I tried to look at members and also see where funding for the fancy website, the campaigns, the projects came from.

And Holy fook when you look through members it is eye opening.

There is some obvious ones like Olympic Federation of Ireland, SIPTU, INTO, USI, etc.

But then start looking through the list and you find Africa Irish, Proudly Made in Africa, Louth Minority Ethnic Consortium, Kildare Intercultural Action, Kerry Against Racism, Grandfathers Against Racism, Muslims Sisters of Eire, Queer Disapora, and Traveller groups from Ballyfermot, Galway, Cork, Waterford, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing I couldn't spot was Racists Against Racism so folks that group name is available if anyone is interested. 😶

And my point is where are all these myriad of organisations getting funding?

Are they all suckling at the taxpayer funded state teat in some way?

Folks it looks like there is maybe a bit of money in the old counteracting racism.

So would not make sense then that you need to find a lot of racism so that you can get funding to counteract it.

BTW INAR have a job opening for a Network and Communications Officer

42k for a 4 day week on a one year contract.

Not so bad.

Now I wonder who funds that role ?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301233#Comment_118301233

What if segregation is enforced in a country but not supported by laws. Would the country be racist or is the racist laws the bar for you?

Is discrimination based on skin colour the only criteria under which racism can take place?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301263#Comment_118301263

Put it this way Robbie, I think a lot of middle eastern countries are sexist because they have laws that prevent women being treated equally. I don't think that every person from those countries is a sexist though.

And you will need to tell me an example of how segregation is enforced in a country but not supported by law. Because if it is certain people enforcing the segregation against the will, law or assistance of the government of the country, then it would be those people that are racist, not the country.

South Africa is a good example, both before and after Apartheid. Systematic discrimination by White people against Black people, and now the roles have been reversed, to the point where quotas ensure that Whites are discriminated against. Also Black on Black racism along Tribal lines exists.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301197#Comment_118301197

Segregation was institutionalised in America, making it a racist country during that period..

South Africa with its apartheid system also meets the definition of a racist country.

You could make the case that Ireland in the last century was a sectarian-based society (and that would not be generally accepted) but extremely difficult to make the case that it is a racist country.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301466#Comment_118301466

Jaysus I don't think I want to start the discussion on whether or to sectarianism is racism. I recall reading an article where two sections of the UN couldn't agree if sectarianism in northern Ireland could be correctly classified as racism.

I have to take some responsibility for mentioning america. But it was in response to a direct question which asked for previously racist countries. I should have known better than to answer a question that obviously was against mod instruction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301799#Comment_118301799

With respect to the mods, in order to determine the validity of calling Ireland racist, then comparisons with other nations makes sense, mainly because Ireland has none of the policies common in countries that elevate the native population over that of minority groups.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301836#Comment_118301836

Careful now Klaz posters will think you are agreeing with me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301923#Comment_118301923

Oh, I saw the double standard, or convenience posting (it's fine when it supports his narrative, but irrelevant when it doesn't).

I think if we consider how racism exists outside of Ireland, we will quickly appreciate just how little racism is tolerated here.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301923#Comment_118301923

Deflect deflect deflect.

If you can't discuss my posts discuss me is it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299849#Comment_118299849

That's what I was saying? All the places I listed have traveller accommodation

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300944#Comment_118300944

What bullshit is this post. Where did I say everyone is a racist. This entire post is bullshit.

You have assigned views to me and then even used the you people trope. Fuckin ridiculous stuff

Rothko

Anyone who categories an entire country as racist is un utter moron. Every country has issues with racism and we should do all we can to deal with it. I think that sums the whole thread up. Anything else is superfluous. We can shut the thread down now..