Room in landlords house

fun loving criminal

Would you rent a room where the landlord doesn't live in the house but keeps a room for his use but doesn't actually use the room at all? And then he has all the bills in his name, so it looks like he's residing there?

Is there any downfalls to this situation?

theteal

So you would be a licensee and not a tenant. You would effectively be a guest in the house and have no rights whatsoever - "evicted" at a moments notice. Not sure that scenario would stand up if argued in front of RTB but that's definitely what the LL is going for.

Mrs OBumble

Yes I would, if it suited me otherwise.

Remember, no notice means you don't have to give notice when you're ready to leave, either.

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271550#Comment_118271550

Would it be reasonable enough to get a copy of the lease before handing over money?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058221280/room-in-landlords-house

Its a room rent instead of a house rent. Have seen it before because LL maybe has a job which moved him after buying the house but still doesn't want to fully let it out ebcause they have to move back.

If the rent is good and the location is good what difference does it make? if the person is not their then your bills etc will be lower plus less people in house etc etc.

If you want to rent a full property then its a negative but if you are looking for a room rent it is a positive in every sense.

Information here which detaisl what you are entitled to. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

JoChervil

It is not necessary a bad thing. Landlord might live with his partner and using rent-a-room scheme to avoid paying tax. Of course you won't have tenants rights but you might sign an agreement with a landlord about any rights you would like to have honoured like the length of notice, or having guests in your place etc.

I've noticed that in my case any time I signed a contract, it wasn't for my benefit in the end, while simple "hand shake" gave me the best outcome at work and while renting, so I wouldn't rule it out.

In the first six month into tenancy, you don't have much rights anyway, so you could give it a try and see, if it works for you.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271550#Comment_118271550

Unless you know the situation then not sure why you are making statements as if they are facts.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271586#Comment_118271586

I have stayed in "rent a room" and also rented rooms in a previous life. Normal process with adults is to agree a period and stick to that. That can be easy to arrange with LL and normally a 30 day period. Also 1 month rent deposit would be normal

Ramasun

My personal take on it is if it feels dodgy walk away

If you really want it, make sure you understand what you're getting into.

I had situation like that myself though that worked out ok. The guy was living abroad and hardly ever used the place himself, I never actually met him.

But again be cautious and ask questions if you're not sure.

Thomas

I was in house share situations several times until I settled down. The LL keeping a room but actually not being there much would have been a dream scenario. Think about it - you have the house to yourself more, more privacy and less likely to have any nonsense with other housemates when there is the possibility of the LL coming back any evening.

OP positioned it as a negative in the first post but I think an absent housemate is a bonus!

Anyone else renting in the house?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118272646#Comment_118272646

That’s the scenario that my lodger has. She only rents a room from me, but the reality is that I’m there only a couple of days every couple of weeks. So she effectively rents an apartment with no roommate. She pays a little more than the going rate for a room, but way way less than the cost of renting an apartment. I make sure give her some notice of when I’m going to be there.

it’s genuinely a win-win.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058221280/room-in-landlords-house

I don't see what the problem is tbh. What do you mean - it looks like he's residing there and he doesn't use the house/room at all. Did the owner say they are away a lot or is this information in an ad for a room to let?

Plenty of reasons a house owner might not be there all the time, maybe they work in a different part of the country or abroad or as another poster said, maybe he stays with his partner, maybe he's a carer for elderly parents, lots of possibilities.

I don't see why any house owner would even consider renting their entire house if it's their home/primary residence especially with the current rules and the more restrictive rules about unlimited tenancies coming soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271608#Comment_118271608

No tax avoidance for a home owner availing of the rent-a-room scheme - it is perfectly legal.

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118272703#Comment_118272703

Yes, there's two more renting as well.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271588#Comment_118271588

There's no lease for licencees.

This sounds like an ideal test case for the RTB and I know that revenue would be very interested. The OP could be a licencee with zero rights or could be a tenant with their rights illegally with held by the landlord fraudulently availing of the rent a room tax break scheme.

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275228#Comment_118275228

Ok. Apparently, a letting agency is sorting all the business side of things as the landlord does live away. Does that change the situation at all? Am I a licencee as long a room is free for the landlord's use?

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275228#Comment_118275228

So is it best I stay away from somewhere like this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275228#Comment_118275228

I think you are conflating two separate things. Just because the owner is not there much, doesn’t mean they can’t rent just a room. Whether they are paying tax on that rent-a-room income is a different question. If not resident then they should. Is whether the LL is tax compliant within the remit of the RTB? (genuine question, I don’t know)

Personally, I do pay declare and pay tax on the income from renting my spare room - I can’t avail of the tax exemption as is not my primary residence. I am fully within my rights however to rent only that room (and others if I had them), and retain use of the other room for myself. And my tenant therefore be only a licensee. (Wouldn’t rent it at all otherwise…..I’m not risking renting my flat under the current rental framework in this country)

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275278#Comment_118275278

Ask the letting agent whether you’d be a tenant or a licencee. It sounds as though you *should* be a tenant in those circumstances because the LL isn’t living there but it also sounds like he’s trying to get around the rules (and taxes) by keeping a room for himself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275345#Comment_118275345

Can you point out the rule that you reference? Not the tax one (I know that one and am compliant)….the one that says that the whole flat must be rented if the owner is not resident

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275345#Comment_118275345

I think just the opposite: it's quite possible that LL is making sure that he has somewhere to sleep when he comes home every so often on leave (some posting type jobs have surprisingly many trips home, and there's also 4 weeks a year of AL) - and also when his overseas job ends. Or even that he just wants to store some stuff within a locked room in the house that housemates don't have access to.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275356#Comment_118275356

I meant the rules around tenant rights. Because tenants have many and licencees have almost none. Of course the LL can keep a room for himself if he wants but it’s not really a ‘rent a room’ situation if it’s not his usual residence. And it may be that the LL isn’t doing that (which is why I said ask the letting agent about it) but I’ve seen that strategy advocated in here more than once.

ETA: I know it’s common for LLs to rent houses by the room. By ’rent a room’ situation I mean a situation where o/p would be a licencee rather than a tenant

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275384#Comment_118275384

Could be the case. I’ve seen people on here suggesting that letting a house by room is a way of avoiding giving tenants their rights and of avoiding tax. May not be what’s happening here, which is why I suggested checking with the agent whether o/p would be a tenant or a licencee

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275356#Comment_118275356

Looks like it's legit.

"

What is a licensee?

A licensee is a person who occupies accommodation under license. Licensees can arise in all sorts of accommodation but most commonly in the following four areas;

1. persons staying in hotels, guesthouses, hostels, etc.,
2. persons sharing a house/apartment with its owner e.g. under the ‘rent a room’ scheme or ‘in digs’,
3. persons occupying accommodation in which the owner is not resident under a formal license arrangement with the owner where the occupants are not entitled to its exclusive use and the owner has continuing access to the accommodation and/or can move around or change the occupants,
4. persons staying in rented accommodation at the invitation of the tenant.

"

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/licences

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275287#Comment_118275287

Go in with your eyes open. You can be kicked out with minimal notice and have zero rights, so the rent should reflect that. Make sure to carefully read whatever contract they give you.

seamus

@Del2005 wrote:

Go in with your eyes open. You can be kicked out with minimal notice and have zero rights, so the rent should reflect that. Make sure to carefully read whatever contract they give you

This. It's not a "you should walk away" scenario provided that you're aware of what you're going into.

I think in the situation described, provided that someone isn't an asshole they're unlikely to find themselves out on the street overnight. The most likely scenario is that the landlord will one day signal that he is coming home permanently and wants his house back. In which case everyone will likely get a few weeks' notice.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275228#Comment_118275228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275741#Comment_118275741

Every rent a room in Ireland is similar which is 100% correct. If you rent out a totally property and the tenants are terrible at least you don't have to live with them. If you rent a room and someone is awful then you should be allowed to move them out. I already posted the link above and most situation a notice period is agreed. Of course the odd time this might be different but how many times has that happened unless the tenant was terrible?

The person is renting a room, its in a house with the landlord and they are using a letting agency. Seem all above board to me. The fact two other tenants are in the house would mean the tax free for rent a room would already be used up.

If people also want to shut down rent a room options then you will make a real balls of the Irish market.

agoodpunt

Have a relative working HSE social services has moved 3 siblings in three houses owned, where let before but since the laws are heading towards indefinite tenancies and pending SF govt they choose to keep them with licencees to protect investment or can sell when they choose as vacant possession its govt policy thats driving this wide spread change.

If both parties are agreeable and can keep to normal rules it can work out in many cases, the need to expect more than ownership rights while renting is wrong hence the shortage of private accom escecially for family

C3PO

OP - Ive watched your posts over recent months looking for somewhere to live. If the room works in other ways why not take a chance?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275521#Comment_118275521

Dont mind what is said here, load of rubbish in the majority from what I have seen. Just because someone rents a room in their house doesn't mean they are the devil or trying to get around tax.

Mrs OBumble

If people also want to shut down rent a room options then you will make a real balls of the Irish market.

As opposed to the half-ar$ed balls it is now.

Shhh, don't be giving them ideas.

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279739#Comment_118279739

Thanks. I've decided to take a chance. It can't be all that bad. I pay rent for the room, so I'm not liable for other tenant's rent if they decide to move out. And the landlord is ok with having my pet, so that's all that matters to me at the moment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287106#Comment_118287106

Good thing about living with the LL is that when the dishwasher breaks down you know it’s gonna get fixed

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287300#Comment_118287300

I'm not actually living with them though

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287106#Comment_118287106

Good call OP - licensee agreement works both way! Worst case scenario you leave and you’re no worse off than you are now.

Kellyg248

Just wondering about a notice period for this type of situation if the landlord wishes to move back into the house and occupy all room as opposed to just the one that they 'keep'. Im guessing minimal and that there is no recourse?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273549#Comment_120273549

Notice period is not defined in legislation but should be reasonable. You could give one weeks notice, but better to give a month. Renting under license is not covered by the RTA/RTB, but if you withhold the deposit, the renters can make a claim in the Small Claims Court against you.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273549#Comment_120273549

There could be recourse if the residents go to the rtb and can prove that the landlord didn't live there, if they've been there for more than 6 months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273674#Comment_120273674

LL doesn’t have to live there. Just needs to retain a room and be free to come an go in the property.

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/licences

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273747#Comment_120273747

That is a massive assumption to make, can you back it up with legislation or cases?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273785#Comment_120273785

You understand that is a link from the RTB site?

”persons occupying accommodation in which the owner is not resident under a formal license arrangement with the owner where the occupants are not entitled to its exclusive use and the owner has continuing access to the accommodation and/or can move around or change the occupants”

The poster, Kellyg248 stated the LL keeps a room in the house for him/herself.

I can only go on the info the poster provided, and the stated position of the regulatory body charged with enforcement of the relevant legislation and adjudicating the cases related to disputes.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273803#Comment_120273803

Well RTB is in the link, but it is just some words on a website giving examples of what could be a licence, not a stated position.

As I remember, this explanation appeared after the cases involving college accommodation and in any case does not mention retaining a room.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273897#Comment_120273897

Here's another version but with the right to request a tenancy if there longer than 6 months:

https://www.rtb.ie/register-a-tenancy/is-your-property-exempt-from-registration

These are not really to be relied on...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273942#Comment_120273942

You stated I made massive assumptions and asked for legislation/cases to support them even though I relied only on what the poster said and the RTB site, now you are making assumptions.

Why are they not to be relied on, and have YOU got cases to support that?

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273979#Comment_120273979

Looking to bicker Davo? It is your own standard to demand cases and legislation...but as you clarified you do not have them.

This was your version:

"LL doesn’t have to live there. Just needs to retain a room and be free to come an go in the property."

I've already shown you 2 different versions on the RTB site, both are different to each other and your version.

They are not to be relied on because they are not designed to be, they are usually not verified or proofread....

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274233#Comment_120274233

It is perfectly possible for courts/tribunals to determine that what is ostensibly documented as a licence is in fact a tenancy.

Note that you cannot have a lease without exclusivity of possession though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274233#Comment_120274233

Look, you started down this rabbit hole by jumping in and claiming I made assumptions and stating that you wanted legislation/cases. Now you are deflecting.

I merely pointed out to Caranica that the RTB states that the LL doesn’t have to prove he/she lives there, the RTB link I quoted supports that. But you strapped on the big boots and wanted proof of that, even though I linked to the site.

So, as you have now stated the RTB cannot be relied on, the least you can do, if nothing else to show you are not a hypocrite, is to show that the RTB have ruled against a LL in a case such as Kellyg248’s. Which of course is going to be difficult considering how little info the poster provided, and how ambiguous the RTB/RTA is on this.

Im not looking to bicker, but if you want to be that way, I have no problem with pointing out stupidity when I see it.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274445#Comment_120274445

Same here, no problem pointing out stupidity and hypocrisy 😂

https://www.rtb.ie/documents/TR168-2011/TR168-2011-DR92-2011Report.pdf

Now I am providing this against my better judgement, unless you are a solicitor, I don't want to hear your analysis.

But common sense should be enough here, what you posted very much looks like you are saying holding a room is significant in some way, which is not the case, otherwise no sane landlord would rent out the entire house when we can retain a room and charge what we like for the others.

The exemption for properties where the landlord resides is in the legislation, so that is perfectly clear.

Dial Hard

Lads, yis are bickering over a two year old thread...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274994#Comment_120274994

Another poster resurrected it with a current question.

niallpatrick

If OP likes the rental knows the pit falls even if it involves no legal agreement and it's all cash in hand then go for it, but I'd insist on having my own pad lock fitted to the door and only I would have the key, even stick a bit of sello tape across the top of the door while I'm out. Have a covert camera secreted in the room when out. Even with minimal legal protection you should protect yourself at all times.

I'm a veteran renter nothing to brag about, but over the years I've learned a lot about other tenants on the block landlords and one mistake or oversight by myself or them can lead to more serious problems. OP's right to privacy is not for negotiation.

The Spider

Jesus why do you care about the landlords tax dealings nothing to do with you, I’ve been in this situation years ago, it was a different time then but it was the best shared house I ever lived in (and the last) giant redbrick on the sea front sharing with 3 others including the landlord who stayed maybe once every two weeks all the rooms were en-suite with tvs, so no bones of contention in the sitting room.

if thats the kind of situation jump at it, although back then I never thought of staying in a place for more than a year to a year and a half, these days I think people don’t move as much