3G/4G signal coverage

mickey_dodger

Hi All, I would be grateful if anyone who has the relevant knowledge/experience could provide me with some info on mobile signal coverage. I live in a smallish village in County Galway, which has mobile antennae mounted on a high(ish) point in the village. There are 4 antennae from Eir, Vodafone and two from 3, as far as I can tell from looking at the ComReg website (https://siteviewer.comreg.ie/#explore). Does anyone know over what sort of distance one could expect to receive a usable signal?

I know that there are no exact measurements and it depends on many variables, but my concern is that I live around 560 metres (line of sight) from the antennae, but I get at most 1 bar signal outside my house and no signal inside the house. I may be wrong but I would have thought that at that kind of distance you should receive a better signal? Granted there are some quite tall trees between my location and the antenna, but even so I believe that the signal should be better than I am receiving.

smuggler.ie

What device we talking about - phone, router, MiFi dongle (make and model?) ?

What is your ISP? Comreg does show what services (GSM=2G, UTMC=3G, LTE=4G, NR=5G) particular mast capable to provide.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058220892/3g-4g-signal-coverage

Where in Galway is this mast?

What height is the mast? Are all 3 MNOs on this mast?

Where on the mast are your operator's antennas located, top, middle, low?

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260465#Comment_118260465

Hi, Thanks for responding.

I am talking about a smartphone trying to get a usable mobile signal, my provider is Eir. The antenna (when close enough to it) gives me a 4G signal, but I need to be less than 400 metres away to get more than 2 bars and this doesn't seem correct to me, unless the power has been turned way down on that antenna or it is faulty somehow?

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260582#Comment_118260582

Hi, thanks for responding.

In Spiddal, Co. Galway.

The mast is up above the height of a 2 storey house, difficult to give a precise measurement. There is a separate mast for each antenna, I have no idea which antenna is Eir.

smuggler.ie

There is no 4G service on that mast for Eir, according Comreg, there is one in Furbogh another in Cartron

Change provider if avail, Three or Vodafone

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118264947#Comment_118264947

Hi, as I mentioned in my previous, I get a 4G signal from Eir when close enough to the antenna, the ComReg data is out of date.

I do appreciate that you take the time to respond to my question, but can I respectfully ask that read my question in detail before responding. I am asking a very specific question about the signal strength possible in a semi-urban location (like Spiddal) at a line of sight distance of 560 metres, knowing that I see 1 or maybe 2 bars at most, this doesn't sound normal to me and I'm looking for someone to give me an informed opinion on that.

With all due respect, advising me to change provider is somewhat less than helpful and if I was of a sarcastic frame of mind, I could consider to be labouring the bleeding obvious. But I try not to be sarcastic, especially when someone is trying to help :-)

smuggler.ie

I have 3 bars of 4G signal on my very old Samsung phone where my nearest mast is ~4km away. If your phone is newer than Samsung Gal S5 then it would be capable to get bar or two intermittently at ~7km distance (outside)

Perhaps i jumped with suggestion re provider swap, but its genuine one.

How you so certain comreg is outdated in relation to this particular mast, if don't mind me asking?

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265013#Comment_118265013

1 or 2 bars outside your house means the transmitter is a good distance away.

I get 1 or 2 bars of 4g outside my house from a mast maybe 10km or further away.

The Cush

Looking at the Spiddal site the mobile antennae appear to be mounted on the walls of that tall building on the Ros na Rún set, no mast as such.

Darc19

I could make a good comment that would help, but if the op takes it the wrong way, they may lambast me like they have done to another poster.

So I won't make it even though I know it would work.

smuggler.ie

Water off the duck's back. Asked for advice - take it, unable to handle - cant help with that.

OP seam desperate to have 4G with Eir, despite unavailable in the area - perhaps contract ties, other reasons... whatever.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265172#Comment_118265172

Thanks smuggler.ie, good to see you have a sense of humour.

To answer your question, I get a 4g signal from Eir on my phone when close enough to the antenna, I can verify that with various signal checking apps, they all confirm its an LTE signal and it is Eir/Meteor.

Thanks for your info about your own signal experience, I have a very recent Samsung (A52s) and what I have seen in various articles on the internet, 4G signal normally has a range measured in km not in hundreds of metres, something is wrong with the setup in Spiddal as far as I can tell.

I don't really have a choice with regard to switching provider as I am a prisoner of Eir, where I live the only other possibility is Vodafone and a neighbour of mine had a nightmare experience with Vodafone so I'm reluctant to switch. Better the devil you know. Up to now we were reliant on WiFi calling, not sure if you are familiar, but it's supported by Eir and if enabled in your phone, when no mobile signal is available your phone uses your WiFi/internet to reach the nearest Eir mobile site to access mobile network. It works for calls and SMS and it was working really well until about 6-7 weeks ago when SMS stopped working and despite Eir having a priority 1 case opened, it remains unresolved to this day. Eir are fully aware and it's a global network issue affecting every Eir user (using WiFi calling). I worked in telecoms and IT for 35 years (abroad, came home in 2017) and I have never seen such chaos as I have witnessed in Ireland with Eir.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265762#Comment_118265762

My point exactly, I am 560 metres, give or take, as measured on Google maps and I get 1-2 bars. I have to go into the car park beside the antenna to get much better signal.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118266514#Comment_118266514

The poster I allegedly lambasted was not upset, he didn't take offense, admittedly I as a bit sarcastic but he was OK wth it. If I can try to guess what your suggestion is, would it have anything to do with WiFi Calling? If it is, see my reply to smuggler.ie on the subject. If my guess is wrong, go ahead and comment, I promise I won't bite.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118266387#Comment_118266387

Correct. Would you mind if I asked how you know the setup, do you live in the area? Just curious.

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118266789#Comment_118266789

Well, as you are using various apps on the phone, would you share cell ID or eNB ID you are connected once on 4G, surely those apps give that info

@The Cush by chance you have info if Eir/Meteor still have roaming agreement with Vodafone, you in those things :D?

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118266837#Comment_118266837

No, I'm in Co. Limerick. All the info I see is there on the Comreg site you linked to in the first post. Can't see if there is full around coverage from the eir antennae on that building.

What's the 4g signal like near the antennae, full bars, speed test?

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118266857#Comment_118266857

This is a screenshot of the app taken when I was parked within 30-40m of the antenna. Roaming to another provider is not going to help unfortunately, I have had family and friends using all networks and none of them get any signal, i.e. same situation as for me with Eir. Not sure if this just indicates that all the providers power output is at a low level, for whatever reason, maybe by design but why I have no idea.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118268169#Comment_118268169

Can you post the same from outside your house?

mickey_dodger

smuggler.ie

Ok, this is some good info.

How long you have this app. MAP tab on it perhaps could give approx location of mast (eNB44047), longer it was used more precise it could be, especially if you travel in and out your town

Cellmapper(you can try that app too) unfortunately has no record of this eNB ... yet. Sequenced (44045, 44046, )numbers might or might not indicate same geographical location for mast, but usually same region. Red indicate that location is unconfirmed and could be off by miles.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118268493#Comment_118268493

Someone may be able to interpret the readings better than me, but looks like there may not be an eir antenna pointing in your direction from that building.

Could be the same for the other MNOs on that site.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118268600#Comment_118268600

Hi there, I am using the app for a few weeks now, it provdes a lot of info and there is a map tab but I need more time to learn how to use all the features and then I will do some extensive measuring.

Thanks to smuggler.ie and also to The Cush for your help, I do appreciate it. I did not hear again from Darc19, perhaps his suggestion was around WiFi Calling, but we'll never know. My bad if I put him off....

I did look at Cellmapper, but stopped when I saw that it did not include my antenna, I will go back and look again.

The Cush

Maybe he was going to suggest a mobile repeater for the house or a 4g router with external antenna?

smuggler.ie

Have used Cellmapper - worked well for me. Data on it will be as users like yourself and myself provide, some if not most are from here on boards as i can see.

It might take time to position eNB more precise, but you know its physical location, if its there and not in neighbor town. Make few circles around town 1, 5 km radius(dont get wet at the see :D). Let it run and upload data - eventually it should get +- location.

@The Cush might be spot on re "blade" facing away, but will see.

As for roaming to other ISP, i had in mind that back in 2006-2009 Meteor had agreement with VF allowing Meteor users to connect to their mast's, Co.Galway in particular, without extra charge. For end user it was seamless. Three had similar up to ~2015/16 when i suddenly found myself out of coverage once agreement ceased - very frustrating. I have no track if this(Met/Eir) agreement had extension or not. Perhaps its not a thing anymore.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269477#Comment_118269477

I have already looked into that. You can get a 4g repeater alright, but they are expensive to buy the ComReg approved ones, you're talking North of €600. If you want a 5g repeater, thats a lot more and I would be reluctant to spend 600 on a 4g device that doesn't support what is the future of mobile, doesn't make sense to me. I will try to kick the crap out of Eir until they fix their WiFi calling issue, because that's the ideal solution for me.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269622#Comment_118269622

There's no decent signal from any provider at my house as far as I can see, but I'll continue measuring. Take care everybody and thanks again...

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269640#Comment_118269640

Two of my brothers use repeaters, the legal ones, having previously used the far east imports which were ultimately crap.

The problem with repeaters is that they are band specific and not standards specific i.e. 4g, 5g, etc. So you will need to have a good idea what bands your favoured MNO is using in your area before purchasing. The more band coverage you require the higher the cost. No point buying a multi-band repeater if only the sub 1GHz bands are in use at your local transmitter.

As for 5g services, excluding the 3.6GHz band, only the 1800 and 2100 bands are carrying 5g under temporary covid spectrum measures I believe. We may see full 5g service in the 700MHz band by this time next year once Comreg's multi-band auction is completed. No repeaters are available for the 700MHz band yet.

One of my brother's purchased this kit earlier this year, for a well insulated house with no internal mobile signal - Legal-to-Use GSM/4G 800Mhz Mobile Phone Signal Booster (novatel.ie), a direction antenna would be recommended if using a non-local mast - StellaDoradus 5 Band Yagi N-Female Antenna (novatel.ie)

galah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118266789#Comment_118266789

Jumping in here - you just saved my sanity - I am having exactly this argument with eir about the wifi texts that stopped working, and they keep pretending it's my handset, or the SIM, or 'insert random reason but definitely not them'.

The wifi texts used to work really well, and now they don't, and I would love to know what they are doing about this. Incidentally we are pretty much just down the road from you. No mobile phone coverage, and wifi texts not working, which means anything that needs 2FA (bank, online shopping etc) does not work and needs to be done from the car down the main road.

If you find another solution to this issue, please let me know :-)

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118495236#Comment_118495236

Still trying to get Eir to resolve the issue with WiFi calling. I eventually had to make a formal complaint to ComReg to get Eir to do anything. The latest is that Eir finally agreed yesterday to open a fault case to investigate the issue (texts not received on WiFi calling), now waiting for them to respond to me. What would help is for anyone else affected by this to also complain to ComReg, the more people who complain the more pressure can be put on Eir to fix this. Based on my experience so far, they do not seem interested in fixing the problem.

The deeper underlying issue in the area in which I live is that the mobile coverage is non-existent even though my house is only around 500 metres from the antenna in Spiddal. What I discovered is that North, South or East of the antenna, you get a very good signal even 2 or 3 km away, but no signal West of the antenna!!!! You can easily test this if you live in the area, just drive in your car and you will see, the antenna is located beside the medical centre in Spiddal, it's actually within the set that is used for the TV series, Ros Na Rún. I am trying also to get Eir to investigate this, there is definitely an issue.

smuggler.ie

I see someone had run there with CellMapper app - 44047 on the map, but very limited data

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544133#Comment_118544133

Thanks for that, I will take a look. Still nothing from Eir, but I am not surprised, considering all my previous experience. Looks like I will be complaining to ComReg again.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544133#Comment_118544133

Hi Smuggler, I have tried to check 44047 on Cellmapper, but it does not show for me, could you post a screenshot?

I am still pursuing Eir on the WiFi Calling issue, as I reported previously, on 10Nov21 I was told by Eir that they had a priority 1 case open to resolve the issue, 3 months later and they still maintain that they are "working on the issue". I have asked for more information on the reason for delay in fixing but Eir will not provide this, neither will they give an estimated time to fix. Just incredible that a telecom company behaves in this way in the 21st century. I have had to go back to ComReg and reopen the complaint, which prompted a call a few days later from an Eir complaints supervisor who just gave me the same line of bull***t that they have been giving me since 10Nov. This guy promised to escalate the issue and get back to me, but he is the same guy whom I spoke to on 16Dec, at that time he promised faithfully to pursue the issue, but I never heard from him again until I reopened the ComReg complaint. His actual words on 16Dec were "I am a supervisor in the Eir complaints department and I promise you I will pursue this issue to try and get a resolution". Yesterday he made the same promise and I reckon Satan will be driving a snowplough in hell before this guy calls me back.

I have also queried why the mobile signal from antenna 44047 does not work in the Western part of Spiddal, while it works in every other direction, North, South and East, but I just get more bull***t. The only thing Eir does is to offer you €50 off your next bill, which I took because it's better than nothing, and doing nothing is what Eir specialises in. I don't want €50, I just want a service that works.

For anyone who is wondering why I do not leave Eir and go to another provider, the answer is simply that the other providers are by and large as incompetent and completely uncaring as the good folks at Eir. Realistically anyway, my choice is between Eir and Vodafone and my neighbour has already lived in Vodafone hell for a while and does not recommend me to try it. The antenna 44047 in Spiddal is shared by all the providers, so switching will not help.

If there is anyone in the Western Spiddal area (and further West out to Inverin) who reads this, can you please assist :

(1) Can someone with mobile provider Vodafone confirm whether WiFi Calling works for reception of text messages? [at the moment only Eir and Vodafone provide WiFi Calling as an option, you need to enable it in your phone]

(2) Contact your provider fault line and tell them you get no signal even though you are living with range of the antenna in Spiddal (you should get a usable signal up to 2 or 3 kilometers from the centre of Spiddal) Note this applies to folks on the Western side of Spiddal. If you are with Eir then also complain the reception of text messages (SMS messages) does not work with WiFi Calling. If you are with Vodafone, can you let me know if text receiving works with Vodafone WiFi Calling and if not report it to Vodafone helpdesk.

(3) I hope that your provider fixes the mobile signal issue, but I wouldn't count on it. If they do not provide a fix, then follow your providers complaint process to open a complaint (this is Eir complaint process and there is a tab to log a complaint https://www.eir.ie/complaints/). You need to allow your provider some time to resolve your complaint (for Eir it is 10 days) and when they fail to resolve it you can then log a complaint with ComReg by calling 01 804 9668.

The more people who complain about this and also log a complaint with ComReg, there is more chance that this will be fixed. The same goes for anyone who is with Eir and relies on WiFi Calling because of no mobile signal, complain about it to ComReg and put pressure on Eir to fix this. I'm not sure about Vodafone, does text receiving on WiFi Calling work?

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566248#Comment_118566248

Here you go.

The reason you dont see it is , as i mentioned - limited data. To be able to see - enable low accuracy on "general>filters" .

44047 is not shared to other providers, its solely Eir. Mast would be, but it would contain multiple "blades" and would have differnt ID's. G maps images are potentially dated and futhermore, from any angle i have tried, i could not see any "blade", let alone mast/tower there. Could you take few pictures and post here?

I could recognize few microwave look-a-like units, but for what its worth might be some local business setup, who knows.

If you install app and do good few circles 2-5 km radius around town, you will be able to upload more data, providing 44047 come to radar there, or elsewhere.

Longer you run it, further you drive - more data, more presission. I had cell registering 50 km distance at the beggining, till eventually it settled 10km away.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566725#Comment_118566725

The location is wrong, take a look here... https://siteviewer.comreg.ie/#explore

use the search field in upper LHS, type 4047

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567169#Comment_118567169

I've seen it , but who am i to say that its still there or not. Take pictures, post.

It took ~2 years for comreg to remove mark from the map in my area after mast(actually antennas mounted on town water tank) was decommissioned(ceased serving) and eventually taken down.

And yes of course, current location of 44047 on cellmapper is way off - as expected(low accuracy!) . It was first&last "seen" on 11Jan2022, never before/never again.

Want to find out more - install and map yourself. From Pooreen, semicircle to north and down to Park Lodge.

smuggler.ie

BTW, comreg are updating something there, Eir to follow

Site 4047 03Dec2021 (see post #6) vs now

Prepare, 5G coming 😉

KildareP

@mickey_dodger Vodafone WiFi calling does not support SMS, no. This was similarly the case until recently over on Vodafone UK but what Vodafone UK does is no solid indication of what Vodafone Ireland might do - the Sure Signal platform Vodafone Ireland got here was a severely cut down version of what Vodafone UK got for example.

Three Ireland doesn't offer WiFi Calling (or VoLTE) at all, although they do have an IMS in place so there's no major technical inability to do so, bar I suspect, how their network was constructed down through the years using different vendors for each of the 2G, 3G, 4G and 5G deployments.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568771#Comment_118568771

5G is available on Eir since about the beginning of 2022.

This photo shows the site 4047 from a roughly Southern viewpoint, the windows and roof you can see are the 2nd floor of a house, to give an idea of the height of the installation. I suspect that this is the main issue, the antennae are not sufficiently high, but I am no expert.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569419#Comment_118569419

Thank you for that information.

According to https://n.vodafone.ie/network/wi-fi-calling.html Vodafone WiFi Calling supports both calls and texts, so are you saying that the text function is "broken" at the moment, as it is on Eir?

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570375#Comment_118570375

On this page: https://n.vodafone.ie/support/bill-pay-hub/bill-pay/wi-fi-calling.html

Can I send a text message over Wi-Fi? / No, text messages cannot be sent or received over Wi-Fi Calling.

I can confirm SMS does NOT work on either an iPhone 11 or a Pixel 4a 5g on WiFi Calling. Calls work fine.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570780#Comment_118570780

Thanks KildareP, so misinformation on the Vodafone website that I found. Text definitely not possible with WiFi Calling on Vodafone, but it should work on the Eir network except that text receipt is broken and Eir have not fixed in getting on for 14 weeks now.

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570356#Comment_118570356

I see. gmaps has nothing on that same roof (img from 2010 does not help).

Possibility that signal just skimming above your location? B20 should have that covered i guess, providing there is blade that facing your direction and its functional.

Any luck with cellmapper?

Terrain - see for yourself, https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575130#Comment_118575130

Thanks for that info, regarding terrain the website states it is for long distance mapping and does not take into account intervening buildings..etc.., I am only 500m away, I don't believe it is a line of sight issue. However, there are some tall trees in between and that is probably the problem, the antenna is not high enough to clear those trees. A repeater with it's receiving antenna up high would most likely be the best way to resolve my issue, but the ComReg approved ones are €600+ and I am reluctant to go with the cheaper ones that are advertised on eBay, Alibaba..etc.. as on investigation I find a lot of people complaining that they do not work.

smuggler.ie

Multicell sites, and you can see it on CellMapper, have multiple sectors with different Cell_ID's. With current data on CM, there is only one Cell_ID registered east direction for this eNB.

This not to say there is only one, but there is no data to confirm or deny that.

mickey_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577208#Comment_118577208

Eir told me in the past that there was a West facing antenna, their mobile tech team had found remotely, that the West facing antenna was damaged, they later told me it was storm damage and was fixed, but made no difference in my case.

smuggler.ie

So they said...

ED E

Cellmapper wont map 5G cells on most phones. Just points trails.

Height should't really matter at that range. Many cells are quite low nowadays as you want capacity not mega coverage.

Very little data on 44047 or nB 6417 mapped. If you want real info Mickey do a few loops around it with Cellmapper running (screen on with some phones, needs permanent GPS permission. Only like 10 points per RAT right now.

BTW. It looks like you tried to map from your living room. That or somebody near you has a cellular repeater. If that was you I'd do some real mapping to not dox yourself.