**** Starfield ****

The comparisons to NMS are so absurd, anyone who has played NMS could see this. I think it's a fun game, and a great achievement for such a small team. But many of it's heralded features are hampered by how shallow and meaningless they are.

Sure, you can enter an atmosphere and land anywhere, but there's no point because everywhere on that planet is almost identical and there's nothing to do there other than a few procedural buildings with very little to do. And after you seen a few planets everything just looks the same, so there being a quadrillion planets is just redundant.

In the Starfield clip you see combat while storming a base. Yeah, there's combat in NMS, but again it's fairly shallow and meaningless. You never fight NPCs, just a bunch of sentinels and it never means anything. Plus the combat is terrible, both on foot and in space. It doesn't need to be good because it's pointless. I just run away from combat encounters because there's literally no point in engaging.

I could go on, but this is why I find the comparisons kind of ridiculous. Yeah, there are similar activities, but in NMS there's no purpose to any of it. I tried to play it with a buddy of mine and we just got bored because there's nothing meaningful to do.

Looking at Starfield there at least looks to be actual stories, quests and a meaning to what's going on. Actual combat where you fight NPCs to do a quest and not a swarm of robots for no reason.

I think I'll wait for the dust to settle on this thread before I'll join again for a reasonable discussion. On other threads outside of boards it's an interesting discussion, with fun speculation. On here it's

1. It's a NMS rip off

2. Bethesda/Todd bad

Boring.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205151#Comment_119205151

It's a hobby horse for me, but I suspect the reason why Bethesda haven't done it, is because their engine couldn't handle the kind of open universe No Man's Sky implemented. Methinks they just about managed that "1000 planets" without everything running out of memory; as while what used to be the GameBryo engine has been significantly modified you can't just turn it into the kind of engine NMS' would have been from the get-go.

EoinHef

Some people se to be convinced this game is amazing already, a job well done todd😂

It could be, and I hope it is. I've played Elite Dangerous, NMS, Star Citizen, the X series to name a few and love space games but given Todd's record for over promising and under delivering I feel a healthy dose of skepticism and not hyping the game is a valid approach for now.

I will repeat what I said earlier:

"It's the same as every new game release these days. You have the hype train who'll expect a life simulator and you have people who will hate it without even playing it. Gaming community is just toxic.

I think Starfield has exceeded my expectations so far, but I'm also mindful of recent disastrous launches so I'm going to remain skeptical until I play it."

But that doesn't mean you can't be excited about it being potentially good.

Retr0gamer

The heat death of the sun will come before Bethesda stop building upon the husk of the janky **** creation engine they have been using since Morrowind. And calling it Creation 2.0 doesn't make it a different engine.

johnny_ultimate

Whatever about the (entirely justified) NMS comparisons and contrasts, it's still that opening section of the trailer that has me most skeptical. If a dull shootout against generic enemies in an 'abandoned research facility' prefab is the level of bespoke, authored content we can expect from planetary exploration... well colour me unenthused, especially given Bethesda's record of underwhelming combat systems. An extremely strange way to introduce the world to your much-hyped space exploration game IMO.

I am certainly curious about the project, and will almost certainly give it a whirl via GamePass given the non-existent barrier to entry there. But this particular 15-minute ad was designed to drum up hype about the game - inevitably some people are going to be impressed, and some people are going to be unimpressed, and some people will have no strong feelings one way or the other :)

Mr Crispy

^This is the red flag for me. They had 1000 planets to choose from (supposedly), but went with another barren wasteland affair to attempt to build some hype. I'm not surprised so many people are non-plussed.

McFly85

It looks okay. I think that it’s a MS exclusive it might be under more scrutiny, but even if it wasn’t what we’ve seen and heard in recent days has tempered a lot of the expectations for me.

A 40 hour space action RPG with predictable looking combat, optional exploration and unbelievable music. I’ll definitely play it but redfall is looking like the far more interesting Bethesda game at the minute.

mewso

I'm happy enough with what I saw. I'm always fascinated to see what people expect from Bethesda. I expected fallout in space. That entails bugs, poor story, bad radiant quests all trumped by amazing exploration. Every single one of their games I have played, gotten annoyed by many many things and before I know it I have 150+ hours.

I can see they have taken inspiration from NMS but I'm not sure I would make a comparison since there is a Bethesda template here. Slightly enhance the engine without really making it capable of much more. No way would I ever expect their engine to have landing on planets in game. Games advance very quickly and perhaps some people are frustrated that Bethesda haven't progressed in many ways with better writing, characters and so on but I give them credit for being one of the very few developers that make this specific kind of game. Give me a Bethesda world before a ? dotted Ubisoft one.

I suppose this is their first big test since Fallout 76 and they could fail miserably but I am optimistic. Once the modders get their hands on it this could be fantastic.

McFly85

I think while the hype levels weren’t Cyberpunk, they were big - so when people saw the gameplay is largely stuff they’ve seen before, you can understand the reaction.

It will most likely be a good game, but not a great one.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207310#Comment_119207310

I'd certainly take a Bethesda game over a Ubisoft game, but I'd take more modern takes on open-world exploration games - Outer Wilds or Subnautica, for example, or Elden Ring - over the most recent Bethesda games.

Happy to remain open-minded about this until the final thing is ready, but I for one found Fallout 4 to be a case study in a studio short on ideas (outside base building, something I'm not personally interested in) and stubbornly sticking to the same formula / technology. It's been a long time since Oblivion, and I'd certainly like to see Bethesda make a more radical or transformative take on the formula they've been playing around with ever since (to mixed effect - some great games, some less great games). Obviously impossible to comment on that here til we actually play the thing - we all only have the same 15 minutes of footage to work off!

New Vegas vs Fallout 3 / 4 also show how Bethesda themselves can be a bit... well... boring or 'vanilla' with their takes on worlds they're creating. They're absent a certain playfulness that a studio like Obsidian can add to proceedings. If we're talking imminent Microsoft first-party titles, Pentiment is a game that really caught my eye due to its novel style, whereas this seemed a bit 'more of the same, but in space' :)

mewso

Yep I get where you are coming from johnny but like I said why are you asking for this from Bethesda? You've got what you want elsewhere.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207944#Comment_119207944

What's the harm in hoping for Bethesda to do better and not phone it in?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207961#Comment_119207961

Exactly.

Bethesda are a good studio whose ambition put them in the position they exist in. But they're kinda phoning it on at this stage and it'd be amazing to see what they could do with a new engine, and some new perspectives.

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207961#Comment_119207961

Absolutely nothing. I think people are missing my point. This game will come out and I will agree with everyone that they can and should do better but I'll probably put many hours into anyway. If people want them to embrace Elden Ring like open worlds then suddenly we'll have 2 developers doing lonely open worlds with no towns, cities, guilds to join and so on. I don't want From to do things differently just as I don't want Bethesda to either. Improve fine but ultimately if this is not a disaster then I'll get plenty value for money.

So what exactly would you guys have wanted them to do differently with Fallout 4 for example? I disliked not being able to ignore or at least separate radiant quests, story was weak but had it's moments. Base building didn't float my boat but could be ignored or just done on a basic level. Apart from that I had a blast.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207944#Comment_119207944

Just would like to see an evidently talented studio push themselves to the best of their abilities and resources :) The flaws of the ‘Bethesda formula’ are evident - just would like to seen them solving some of those problems.

For what it’s worth, I’d also love to see From Software challenge themselves too and make a big break from the Souls formula! Elden Ring might have pushed that formula in refreshing new directions, but I’d love to see something entirely new from them.

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208125#Comment_119208125

The flaws are very evident but I still put many more hours into their games than many games I would consider superior and I don't mean bad hours. When I am fed up with a game I stop. Anyway what do I know? My favourite game of all time is Gothic 3. PB are the one developer whose games I buy up front every single time that never has and probably never will change their formula. Maybe thats why I am defending Bethesda for no good reason.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208267#Comment_119208267

Hey I put 100 hours into Oblivion back in the day while barely realising it, so I know the feeling :) And we all have our comfort food games / developers. I guess for me the thing is that while most Bethesda games leave me pretty cold there are things I definitely like about them - so I’d love to see them make a game that really gets under my skin one of these years (although that could be quite a few years indeed as their production cycles are getting longer and longer!)

Retr0gamer

Kings field 5 please from.

Sephiroth_dude

Todd Howard has said FO5 will be coming after Elder scrolls 6, which is great and all but that's only entered pre-production and it was announced it was beginning development in 2018, I really wish they would start handing out projects to others studio's, at this rate it will be the next decade before we see FO5.

I honestly have lost all excitement for the game. I'm still open minded, all I need is a strong story and I can forget all the extra fluff. I have no interest in exploring 1000 barren planets. You'd be foolish to believe 1000 exploreable planets is.going to be anything more than "the iron ore planet", "the water planet", "the crystal planet", the "lava planet" etc. 10 templates multiplied by 100.

What they've revealed so far has me thinking about spending my money on the Outer World dlc, enjoy some more of a cracking game and forget all about Starfield (for now).

Oh I forgot I won't really be paying for Starfield as its game pass. So I can spend my money on Outer Worlds dlc and still play Starfield day 1 and be happy I didn't waste my money 😅

Just thought I'd dip back in. Still a wall of negativity. Bethesda bad. Old game engine. Same old, same old. Great. It's this or Reddit, the worst website in the world.

At least it's possible to have a discussion on the game there, even if half of it is lunacy.

Mr Crispy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212580#Comment_119212580

You're taking this far too personally man!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212934#Comment_119212934

You're right. I'll leave ye to it.

pixelburp

Why does chatter have to be positive or negatively inclined? It's all legitimate, don't think it's either outrageous or beyond the pale to comment on Bethesda's somewhat stubborn adherence to a formula - behind the scenes or beyond. They're possibly the most famous Known Quantity in gaming.

Anyway, Digital Foundry ran a video on the reveal trailer, making some educated guesses about the tech; I'd have said they were being a bit premature, considering how heavily curated the whole "gameplay" section probably was, but still made for interesting viewing ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHlYqI8QasU

Potential-Monke

It does get tiring when they release similar games with the same issues and bugs over and over. Imagine how good the games would be if they were without issues from day 1! I also think it's crazy that as consumers, some of us are happy to say we'll overlook the bugs and issues because we'll be spending a hape of time on it anyway. It's not good enough imo. Especially after all this time.

Granted, I'll play it anyway because it'll be on Gamepass, but if I was buying I'd be waiting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217504#Comment_119217504

To be fair Microsoft have been good at delaying games and giving time to finish, in recent history anyway. Have they released a game under Microsoft yet? Will be interesting to see if they get away with this anymore under their control.

Mr Crispy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217679#Comment_119217679

No BGS games under Microsoft yet... Hopefully Phil decrees this is the last game they make with the Creation Engine!

Actually, I wonder what engine Indiana Jones will use. Machinegames have been using Id Tech for the Wolfenstein games, but isn't Todd overseeing Indy personally?

_CreeD_

The core game will be narrative driven, with a wonderful rich open world...a massively buggy soon to be community fixed/modded to hell open world :) . The massive universe they describe is not a detractor but will be optional procedurally generated content you can use for XP, mats and the lols. It won't detract from the core game. That's not blind faith in Bethesda it's knowing they came up with a brilliant game concept decades ago that they have slowly evolved over time in the various ES/FO iterances that are all about amazing but limited sandboxes, not vast expanses of nothing. They know their audience, and when they drifted (looking at you FO 76) they corrected (now looking at you my sweet sweet Wastelanders update). At the same time procedural generation is not new, they can rely on a massive trove of existing algorithms to populate near unlimited optional content for anyone who wants it. And if you think no one does how many of us still spin up Skyrim every few years (esp with new mods)? To me what they have indicated is you can wander off-map and have random events and places/dungeons, well in space but you know what I mean.

McFly85

The whole 1000 planets thing kind of misses the mark for me. As far as I understand it, when you reach a planet you’ll be told if there’s anything worth investigating on it, which then just becomes a checklisting exercise. Would prefer if there was less planets and most of them you could expect interesting items or quests(that you’re not told about on arrival but find through exploration).

Of course, I could be proved completely wrong and most of the planets will have stuff and there will be an insane amount of content!

Odds are it's generic quests generated for each planet template. Maybe they plan on rolling out quests for each planet over time. Game as a service type thing. Could be good, think Sea of Thieves in space with regards to how they jave rolled out content. Started out fairly barren and is now actually a really good game full of content. Problem with that though is if your attention is not caught early you're unlikely to revisit the game.

pixelburp

As with any randomisation, the key part will be how obvious and noticeable the wires will be: you look at something like Hades and its "random" element is so beautifully constructed it almost feels curated at times.

However, what Hades did was to have less than half a dozen "levels", and make each a deep experience; 1000 worlds sounds like the reverse prospect, with many "levels" and a much shallowed degree of curated-randomisation.

Sephiroth_dude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119226043#Comment_119226043

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119226089#Comment_119226089

Maybe they'll have another Preston Garvey type character in game, "I have another planet that needs seeing too" except this time he'll be in alien form with a least 8 eyes.

Mr Crispy

The latest puff piece has a couple of tidbits of info. EG, there are over 250K lines of dialogue, compared to Skyrim's 60K and FO4's 111K!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDNimT0O8LE

SuperBowserWorld

These games are huge time sinks to get the most out of them. Hopefully it'll be easy to jump in and out of like Skyrim.

That's the beauty of Skyrim.

Sephiroth_dude

I've a feeling it won't be out next year at all.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737499#Comment_119737499

My inner cynic automatically presumes the larger number is simply going to account for a lot of ambient chatter:

"Hey, I heard you had got rid of pirates on planet X"

"Hey, I heard you had got rid of pirates on planet Y"

"Hey, I heard you had got rid of pirates on planet Z"

and so on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738682#Comment_119738682

Tell me more about planet X: It's a lava planet.

Tell me more about planet Y: It's a water planet.

Tell me more about planet Z: It's a desert planet.

Multiply by 1,000.

SuperBowserWorld

With so many planets ... Maybe you can land in Tamriel ...

"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow to the knee.”

😹

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738741#Comment_119738741

Honestly, if a planet, tucked away on the outer edge of the galaxy map, were to consist of the continent Tamriel? It'd be awesome just to watch the canon adherents lose their mind. Wouldn't even have to be populated; maybe just covered in ruins of familiar places...

johnny_ultimate

Bethesda: "Starfield will release in November 2022!"

*several months pass*

Bethesda: "Starfield will release in the first half of 2023!"

*several months pass*

Bethesda: "Starfield will release in September 2023!"

https://youtu.be/raWbElTCea8

Mr Crispy

Yeah, but this time they mean it!

pixelburp

Hmmm at this stage I'm wondering which will release first: Starfield or Silksong? Both hotly anticipated, but seem a bit lost in development limbo.

SuperBowserWorld

Getting 2001 A Space Odyssey vibes from that. And the music was like Spiderman/Avengers but then changed into it's own thing.

I think/hope it'll be great.

My 3 year GamePass sub expires a month after that release date. So, I'm in for a month anyway.

johnny_ultimate

I do have to admit when the date came up I was like 'oh, June 9th is the first half of 2023!' - only when Todd said the September date that I realised it was America doing its dates the wrong way around again :P

Jordan 199

Starfield September.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330736#Comment_120330736

Yep, the US date format convention makes no sense and gets me all the time.

I'd say this is delayed again to at least do some more polishing as XBox needs a killer app at this stage, and they have nothing on the horizon except this game.

It does give off that sense of wonder. So, something to look forward to and fingers crossed.

Nice sneak peak in the video there.

Random loot on generic planet type B (Brown)

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330814#Comment_120330814

There are two types of people:

1) Those who've discovered that Hi-Fi Rush is actually a killer app for Microsoft

2) Those who haven't played Hi-Fi Rush

DeSelby83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330814#Comment_120330814

Redfall looks pretty good, Forza Motorsport will probably be out before Starfield.