Zero Grazing

Reggie.

Well you wonderful sexy lot.

Question I have is I'm looking for info on zero grazing. Looking for the whole aspect of it really. I know the basics as in you gather grass for cows and bring it back to the yard.

I'm thinking of providing it as a service in the area as there's no one at it or even nearby.

Looking for info like, when is done? Time of year it's mostly done? What service you as farmers would require? That kinda info or any hidden pitfalls anyone has noticed about it. Just to help me make up my mind on the subject.

Grueller

I get a contractor to do a bit of it here Reggie. He charges €60 a load for a load that will feed 80 cows for a day. It is a draw of only about half a mile to a mile but is up a busy road so I can't walk cows there.

I use him in the spring and the autumn a nice bit but during peak growing season I can get away without using it too much and actually bale it. I will use it more from this summer on as I am going up a line of cows.

The contractor does tell me that he is always busy in the shoulders but slack enough from April late September. 100hp is able to handle the 80 cow model easily, but my ground is dead level, free draining, barley type land.

paddysdream

Three dairy farmers at it near me .Would be all be 150/200 cow men .Drawing grass 2 or 3 miles and in one case about 8 miles .Not too well up on trailer size but using 6cyl 150 hp plus tractors in front of them .One is drawing from an outfarm while the other two its from rented ground .Looks to be a time consuming process esp. if a second load or more is required in the day .Thing is all 3 have sons drawing the grass while daddy is milking /herding etc .Think a one man band would be under serious time pressure if zero grazing on a regular basis .

One of them was mowing , baling and drawing home bales of fresh grass every few days before he took the plunge to buy the zero grazer

They look to be at it April to October/November .

There is one contractor at it here abouts as well .Heard its somewhere in the region of the load rate mentioned above but no idea if its regular work he gets or only called on from time to time .Presume price is very dependent on draw length .

Would imagine its diesel hungry work if a lot of roadwork involved .Plus none of the machines I saw look too sturdy and the trade in value on one would be an issue I feel .

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237287#Comment_118237287

There was one fella that I know that was at it. Big operator and he quit after 2 years. He complained about having a tractor and man tied up everyday at it. I think he was doing around 15 loads a day and once the machine was worn out after the 2 years he never replaced it.

Now it could have been it got no love and was abused too much but as you said there's not much in the machines to hold them together.

If I was to go at it I'd be buying second hand to test the water and that would bring its own dangers as the cost of new ones are serious

Think €60 is the run of the costs per load alright with addional with a long draw.

Would suit me if it was mainly at the shoulders of the year. More lads turning to dairy here every year and most farms are very fragmented as they were beef or sheep farms previously.

Just wondering why no one has taken on the job around here but it could just be a time constraint for most lads with slurry and hedgecutting

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237439#Comment_118237439

My tenant had one for a couple months and sent it back, he couldn't tolerate the breakdowns.

I suppose if you can keep it together, you'd get lots of work

kevthegaff

You need a good driver, your at it every day incl Sunday. You need alot of farmers in a near radius. What do u do in a bad breakdown. There is lots of work and you will get payed as lads need u to keep drawing. Think short grass is very time consuming too

K.G.

From what I see the pros and cons of contracting zero grazing are.

Cons

You day is not your own,if its just one or 2 loads yer day is spoiled if you want to do a day at slurry or something. The 2 contractors locally frequently swap loads so one do all the loads one day and the other would them another day.

Wet grass is heavy bloody stuff and I sometimes think that alot of zero grazer designed for single farmer use rather than up 20 loads a day and long distances that some contractors may do.

Pros

Long season and tends to be at quieter times.

One man show ,no other labour required to run the system.

cjpm

Major con. The price of diesel at the moment.

Reggie.

I could be wrong but I think most breakdowns are with the mower. Some now come with disc over drum mowers

I'd be the only driver. I wouldn't rush any of the jobs. It's more to fill the gap at the end of the year.

True in what was said tho in that your day is not your own till winter really hits. The money is tempting tho if you could manage a few loads a day

dzer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237643#Comment_118237643

Jasas, Reggie

5 loads is 300 quid hardly a great day compared to the other enterprises you are running. What brand are you looking at. The drum mower is fairly simple on them, you could carry a spare and have it fitted in under an hour.

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237643#Comment_118237643

You'll find it's often like the silage, everyone wants you at the one time. Contractor does it as they have cows themselves and finds while it's a great job for their own cows, The contracting side is hassle, between tight yards, long draws and trying to work around lads milking times. Would be grand if you could get a job or two that would keep give you a load or two every day.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237663#Comment_118237663

Sure 300 a certain day would be better than nothing plus you'd have the rest of the day to spend it 😊

giveitholly

My boss took the chance last year just before lockdown and purchased one,was doing 3-4 loads a day up to early April until fellas closed off silage ground away from home farm. It was the end of August before he did another load,but then had a very busy end of year doing about 10/11 loads for a short period,he would of done over 300 loads altogether at €80 a load.

Word of mouth got out and this year has been even busier with him having to turn down work,probably has up on 600 loads done this year. Seemingly a drum mower is definitely the way to go,One man operation and not very heavy on diesel. Obviously a very time consuming job,7 days a week,and some days you might only have 1/2 jobs so kinda tied to it alright. He is delighted with his purchase and has the zero-grazer paid for already

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237704#Comment_118237704

Did he buy it new?

Any hassle with breakdowns?

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237729#Comment_118237729

No none yet,but he would be very good to mind machinery and wouldn't be horsing wet grass into either at high speeds,another contractor with a similar machine couldn't keep shear pins in his zero grazer,but he was flying around the field filling the load!!

Yeah he bought it new,you wouldn't know what you are buying second hand would be his motto

kevthegaff

Know lads doing up to 15 loads but short draws

funkey_monkey

There was one fella that I know that was at it. Big operator and he quit after 2 years. He complained about having a tractor and man tied up everyday at it. 

Not sure I get his point - was he complaining that he had a full days work everyday for his machine? Is that not the ideal - to have the tractor/implement/driver at it all day every day?

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237747#Comment_118237747

I believe in the same motto. What size has he? I'd be looking at the GT80 size machine. Think that does 80ish cows

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237768#Comment_118237768

Not when the machine was needed for silage or maize I think was what he was getting at

funkey_monkey

Have you looked at getting a front mower and a forage wagon - that way you might get a bit of silage work with it during the summer or maybe even run the front mower with your trailed Malone?

Field access might be an issue in some places though.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237778#Comment_118237778

GT140 he purchased,some of the jobs would be for fellas with 200+ cows

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237808#Comment_118237808

Another fella was doing that but you have to think of the extra weight,especially at the end of the year with ground conditions deteriorating. Also the grass is in better condition after a drum mower than it is if cut with a front mower and picked up with a silage wagon

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237680#Comment_118237680

Fuel costs, depreciation, wear and tear and your own time to earn €300 to move 5 loads.

On the plus side its easy work, could do it half asleep

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237808#Comment_118237808

Grass tends to heat quicker with an outfit like that. Also outrageously awkward to maneuver when you're backing in to feed passages. Would also be considerably sorer on the ground, and awkward with corners.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237820#Comment_118237820

Yeah she's the biggest of them alright. My way of thinking would be if a fella needs grass for 200 cows and the grazer only feeds 80 then it'll have to be 3 runs.

Most herds around here are 100ish

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237808#Comment_118237808

Hard to get short grass into a wagon. Summer is fairly tied up. Just thinking of something to do from say Oct onwards for a while

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237947#Comment_118237947

What about hedge cutting?

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237969#Comment_118237969

Well too many people at it around here. They are cutting each others throats atm. Looking for a niche

kevthegaff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237993#Comment_118237993

If u don't mind working Sundays, you'll get the work, are the draws long?

Bass Reeves

There was a thread early in the year purchasing V contractor on it. Reggie it would be niche but only issue is it could be a seven day a week job. If you go at it remember to charge by time. At most other contracting jobs you have at least half a day and maybe a few days work at the time. The way you charge is a call out charge ( cost of you putting the machine on and arriving at field or getting from one farmer to the next day 15-20 euro and a charge per hour split into 15 minute segments). Most.jobs will be a minimum of an hour. A long drawn or short grass could add on. Remember dairy men have plenty of money no need to spare them. You could have a dairy farmer and a beef farmer rate

You will have to buy a prop blue tractor those dairy are particular about the blue coloured machines coming into there yard.

cjpm

Bass your idea about a separate dairy farmer and beef farmer will land Reggie in hot water.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238562#Comment_118238562

I assume Bass was joking there but if not it definitely would be a bad business move.

I’d have a bit of experience with zero grazers and as said by a few posters already the type of grass and ground conditions play a huge role in making money or not.

I think charging by the load is a bad idea. It’s like lads I hear talking about how their contractors charge them for slurry based on the size of their slatted tank. If the draw is around the yards this year but 2 miles down the road next year they still charge the same, it just makes no sense.

With zero grazing you could go into heavy covers and have a load filled in 10 mins. The next man could send you into a light cover and you’d end up spending 45 mins or more and covering 2 acres to fill the load. If you were sent in to mow that field for bales you’d be charging him €20-€25 per acre for the mowing alone so why should it be any different when the mower is on a zero grazer?

Obviously you can’t charge by the acre but I think as Bass suggested, a call out charge and then an hourly rate, is the fairest way to go for both parties. The man with the heavy grass on a short draw will be charged a lot less than the man with the light grass and a long draw.

On the maintenance side they’re not the heaviest or strongest machines ever made but they’re well capable of doing the job they’re designed to do if not abused. Generally the owner driven machines give little bother as obviously they’re driven that bit more carefully. Don’t be trying to do 40k on rough roads with a full load or don’t be trying to bull into wet grass and filling it in no time. Like any machine a bit of care when driving them and regular greasing and general maintenance and they’ll last a long time.

There’s plastic rollers on the end of the shafts of the elevator chains, they’re only a couple of euro each, keep them changed regularly, as soon as you see any wear on them, and it keeps the elevator running a lot better and not steel on steel. Keep the elevator chains and floor chains tight and don’t be shy with the grease gun, especially on the pivot point of the drawbar as it would surprise you how many times you move the drawbar in and out filling a load. A hydraulic driven elevator is better than a mechanically driven as you can control it better. The elevator chains are a pain in the a**e to get out if they do give bother but the Condell machines have a great set up there as their chain can be taken out in sections whereas every other make it has to be lifted out in one piece.

After that no matter what make or model keep regular checks to the chassis and drawbars for any cracks or fatigue and you won’t go too far wrong.

Best of luck with it whatever way you do decide to go.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238513#Comment_118238513

I'm sorting the tractor situation as we speak

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238755#Comment_118238755

Cheers lad. Idea is only in its infancy atm. Could be bust this time next year or a millionaire

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238513#Comment_118238513

Will ya stop all the money the beef men are making this year and no expense at all with ye maybe a shake of urea in spring and yere sound...........it would nearly tempt me back at it....... nearly

But sure I'll need something for the retirement when I turn 75 should be well able for 70 bullocks

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239022#Comment_118239022

Chat to a few local customers first and see is there a demand, maybe work out a route where you could have a backload for some of the time. One lad here does an out farm for a neighbour first, drops it off then cuts a load for himself at his own out farm and brings it home.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238562#Comment_118238562

That was tongue in cheek. Any beef farmer using a zero grazer other than for a specific reason is at nothing beef enterprises do not stand cost. If there is grass let the cattle eat it. No point in drawing in grass and out slurry no matter how efficient a system or what extra weight gain is achieved in a beef enterprises.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239121#Comment_118239121

Dairy man near me that used to milk about 60-70 cows got out of them 3ish years ago. Was talking to him a few weeks back. He be mid sixties now. His young lads have all got decent jobs. He says he is sorry he did not do it about five years earlier. It was how he would survive income wise that stopped him. He buys calves and sells as stores. I say he dose 100ish ever year. He said it much easier to manage it and longterm it will be more compatible with his lads working

It just shows the importance of pension planning as farmers. Some lads continually invest on farm to avoid tax and fail to invest in a pension or off farm in an investment that is easier to sustain into your 70's

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239296#Comment_118239296

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aK1QMlBHmM

This fella thinks it's a great system.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239346#Comment_118239346

Indeed great point many of my generation had very poor education financial planning

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237643#Comment_118237643

Down round us most of the lads have gone away from the zero grazers and have bought front mowers and wagons. Don't know if that's a result of what you are saying about the drum mower or whether they wanted the flexibility to pit a paddock if they wanted, which is what one lad does, other two still get Malones to pit the silage l.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239386#Comment_118239386

It's questionable, you'd need a million pension fund now to give you an annuity of €50000, It's a lot to put away out of the farm and when you're drawing the pension it'll be taxed anyway and you'll have paid some fund manager 1%/yr for all those years to manage it

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241593#Comment_118241593

I agree with that. I see the parents here and the father paid into a pension with a blue chip company he worked with,administered by Irish life. It was meant to be all singing, all dancing, pictures of the fit able pension age couple on the deck of a cruise ship on the brochure. Truth is they got a letter in 2008 that it was decimated and it never recovered as he retired in 2009. He gets a paltry €260 per month now after hefty payments in for 28 years.

The flip side is that it is his own investments that have saved him. He bought two run down cottages bounding a small out farm (since sold) in 1992 because he was afraid of bad neighbours moving in. He renovated them over the next 5 years with his own (and my brothers and mine) labour. These now net €1800 per month in rental.

Reggie.

Priced the condell grazer today. 65k Inc vat. Seriously pricey

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279967#Comment_118279967

At that money, strongly suggest you buy two in case one breaks down.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118281524#Comment_118281524

Good advice

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279967#Comment_118279967

You have to think about the bragging rights. High stool coming up to Christmas, being able to blow to the other jockey's the cost of it.....only real risk is we might go back into lockdown and you would not get the mileage out of it. You really need 4-6 weeks in the pub after buying that. The other contractors would be mad jealous.....even if it was a dini in front of it.

kevthegaff

Can't understand why lads don't go with front mower and wagon, get work during the summer as well then

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282406#Comment_118282406

I imagine it's the weight on the front of the tractor being a issue with marginal ground conditions. As well you would need a bigger tractor.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279967#Comment_118279967

That surely explains why they’re not as common as all the other makes so😳😳

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282406#Comment_118282406

Have you ever tried to drive an outfit like that in a narrow gate off a narrow road? Its hard to get a front mower in a lot of gaps with the trailed mower behind which can be manoeuvred in with the hydraulics, never mind trying it with a wagon. As for getting it into feed passages then in the yard, it’d be fine on some of the modern sheds but just wouldn’t fit into a lot of older sheds.

Tractor size requirements, purchase price and running costs would be other factors.