Cash only businesses

Jeremy Sproket

Why are there still businesses in this day and age not accepting card?

Merchant fees used to be prohibitively high, but nowadays, some companies like SumUp charge negligible amounts.

I've often walked into businesses and asked beforehand if they take card, some say "no, but there's an ATM across the street" ... I'm not withdrawing €50 cash (often the minimum amount in some ATMs) just to spend a few Euros on a takeaway or something else. When they suggest the ATM, I just politley tell them that I'll take my custom to a business that operates in 2021 instead of 1921.

Businesses that only accept minimum payment by card also annoy me.

Sonics2k

Funnily enough there was a thread on Consumer Issues just recently giving out about everyone moving to card only and they miss cash businesses.

Fathom

Advancing tech. So long everything is connected. Not temporarily crashed. Plus cards, always carry a bit of cash. Problem solved.

igCorcaigh

Bank charges possibly? I know some of the ethnic food shops near me don't deal with card transactions for less then €10

cj maxx

I always assumed it was a tax thing.

SupplyandDemandZone

I try as much as possible to pay with cash when I can. Old fashioned I know but it makes me happy.

Small town Italian restaurants are notorious for this….

Blitzkrieger

Everything's about balance. There's hassle dealing with cash, and there's hassle dealing with cards. You wouldn't believe the hassle it can be to try and query different merchant services providers about their rates, and trying to work out which will work best and whether it's worth the hassle. I can understand people not wanting to bother. And when you're on small margins anyway, the services provider taking a percentage no matter how small always seems to sting. I can't see many businesses surviving being cash only for much longer though.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187749#Comment_118187749

Tax avoidance I mean

Mantis Toboggan

I would have thought it was obvious it's to dodge the tax man.

If you ever see a taxi man paying income tax then he's not a taxi man.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187791#Comment_118187791

If you see a taxi man who doesn't make a tax return he won't be a taxi man for long.

Scandinavian countries are almost entirely cash only. Once I stopped off for a few hours from a cruise ship at a small port in Sweden, and arrived cashless. No problem, escapee from a thunderstorm in a coffee shop and ordered some nice beverage and cakes and tucked in. Ordered a second pot of coffee, more cake, running up quite a little bill but enjoying my indulgence. Next moment lightning struck town and there was a power-cut. Ship was departing soon, no method of paying my bill. Thankfully power was restored barely in time for me to pay and get back to my ship, but it was a very uncomfortable moment. That said I operate mostly cashless these times but keep a bit of cash for those Very moments.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187749#Comment_118187749

Dodging tax and laundering money. There are a number of pubs, and restaurants, in Dublin generating large revenues but with very little footfall.

Stovepipe

Chinese restaurants and take aways....."sorry, card reader is broken". Funny that...it's been six months now. Going to get it fixed any time soon?"

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188107#Comment_118188107

My local Chinese which does an amazing Singapore noodles and hot and sour soup is cash only.

She's the only person I give my business to, I should amend my OP to reflect that but I don't know how. I only occasionally go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188107#Comment_118188107

my local is cash only too, been that way for years. I can’t believe they’re still in business- Shirley revenue would be on to them at this stage.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187818#Comment_118187818

I remember the year hundreds of taxi men submitted the exact same tax return. Revenue were not amused.

mondeoman72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188143#Comment_118188143

There is no law saying dealing in cash is illegal. You dont have to have a card machine.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188151#Comment_118188151

And when Revenue are not amused you better look out.

They are famous for their lack of a sense of humour 🙂.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188143#Comment_118188143

As long as they are making a tax return whether they accept cards or not is irrelevant.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188143#Comment_118188143

Who's this Shirley Revenue?

yoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188180#Comment_118188180

I think the issue is more about how accurate their tax returns are, rather than that they are not making any tax returns.

It’s very hard for revenue to contest a deliberately low declared income if they can’t just look at your bank statement to gauge your actual revenue.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188238#Comment_118188238

It’s actually very easy for revenue. They’re experts at it.

Expected footfall.

Expected profit margin,

Returns from similar businesses.

Business owners lifestyle.

If all fails, they slap an estimated bill and you have to prove it wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188180#Comment_118188180

you want to be a right fn dope to believe a very popular Chinese restaurant ( or any restaurant for that matter, ethnicity doesn’t come into it) where the phone never stops ringing with customers 7 days a week , that only accepts cash, does an honest tax return to revenue. They’re not cash only for no reason

Still stihl waters 3

I run a small business and 8 times out of 10 I'm paid in cash, I try to veer them towards bank transfers but they horse out the cash making me go to the bank a couple of times a month with a lump of cash

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218614/cash-only-businesses

Cash is legal tender and they are perfectly entitled to accept cash only. In the same way you are entitled to take your business elsewhere. They may be benefiting from those of us who choose to take our business to cash only places,

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188238#Comment_118188238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188310#Comment_118188310

I expect we are all grown ups here and know as well as Revenue do that people try to cheat them and by extension us.

Tax cheats are more sophisticated than you might think.

It's not as simple as cash bad / cards good.

Furze99

Many smaller independently owned retailers will often buy in stock too using cash from the till. This would be for smaller occasional suppliers, it suits both parties. Cash for self employed tradespeople is common too.

The government is always keen to push the cashless society concept, Covid has been a Godsend for them in this regard.

What annoys me is being asked to pay in cash but seeing VAT on the bill.

Dempo1

I'd say it's safe to say a lot of small businesses, retail, Beauty, Barber's, bookstores , Pubs, Restaurants etc will suddenly be having issues with their card machines over the next few weeks given the latest government covid restrictions, perhaps I'm being cynical but there's going to be a lot of CASH transactions over the coming weeks, meaningful Christmas and all that 🤔

Separately, very telling Amazon announced no more acceptance of UK issued credit cards from 2022 due to outrageous processing fee's.

mondeoman72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188388#Comment_118188388

Absolutely. The businesses are being told to close/limit/restrict, but there are few supports. They need to do whatever they have to do to survive.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187786#Comment_118187786

Or tax evasion?

Tax avoidance is the legal use of the provisions of the taxation codes to minimise individual or corporate liability to tax. Tax evasion is the deliberate concealment or mis-statement of reportable income or assets and is illegal.

koutoubia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188303#Comment_118188303

Let me simpifly it even further.

Revenue make up a number and you have to pay it.

They are never wrong!

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187818#Comment_118187818

Yeah but let's just declare 16k and the rest Is tax free!!

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188529#Comment_118188529

Not true at all.

Revenue are actually impartial.

They just insist you pay what you owe.

No more or no less.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188324#Comment_118188324

Does all of it make it to the bank?!

koutoubia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188719#Comment_118188719

From personal experience I will disagree with you but thats an argument for another day!

Jinglejangle69

Chinese take aways. Still a lot don't accept cards.

Surely revenue are closing in on them?

The most obvious tax avoidance.

Use my debit card for almost everything, but would always have some cash, like to keep around €50 in my purse, you never now when the card readers could go down.

My Mam always said, "make sure you always have your taxi fare home" and it kind of stuck with me. At that time, taxis were all cash only.

My GP only started taking cards in the last year. Before that it was all cash.

marty whelan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188748#Comment_118188748

I used to work in revenue, they don't deploy their resources towards low hanging fruit. Don't target take aways, taxi drivers etc.

freshpopcorn

I think certain businesses know what works for them and some may feel there better off without card payment.

I do get the impression from cash only businesses is they aren't overly worried about somebody walking away from them because they don't use cash.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188721#Comment_118188721

I like to keep a bit back for emergencies, 50% seems fair for everyone 🙃

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188417#Comment_118188417

Agreed, I know a number of small business owners, the impression out there is everything is nice and dandy since re opening, it is absolutely not the case, I'm hearing business levels down as much as 40%, a lot of shoppers gone on line and this before small businesses even start dealing with substantial rent arrears, warehoused tax debt and dealing with insurance companies still refusing to pay out on business interruption polices. Separately and quickly forgotten in all the PUP bashing that's gone on is the fact there are still 350k employees of private businesses having 75% of their wages paid through wage subsidy schemes.

There's a Pile of economic Shyte coming very , very soon

Stovepipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188151#Comment_118188151

A friend of mine owns a small garage and his accountant met him every year to do his returns and the conversation went along the lines of " this is how much you will earn this year....". After a few years of identical returns,despite the actual vagaries of the world of small garages,my friend asked why the sum was always identical and the accountant said, "yeah, I suppose...add a few hundred to it", so he did and the Revenue accepted it without question. Essentially,the Revenue are perfectly aware of what a small business like a garage can genuinely earn and will go after you if you or your accountant starts to take the piss out of it. With regard to the "Chinese" restaurants, it was explained to me that many of them are essentially shell companies, often owned by individuals based in Asia, who are essentially untraceable and trying to penetrate the ownership of such places is nigh on impossible and Revenue basically won't bother unless the evasion is blatant/covering the importation of illegals/a cover for drug importation. I was told that such restaurants tend to want to keep a low profile so they generally pay enough taxes to keep Revenue happy, which is why you see so few "Chinese" defaulters in the regular lists. It's also a similar characteristic to other businesses such as cleaners/beauty salons/dog groomers/landscapers and so on. The Revenue are perfectly aware but I suspect,that like building standards inspectors, there are not enough revenue inspectors available to nail all the dodgers.

What ATM machine has a minimum amount of 50 euro withdrawal? Rubbish.

Capt'n Midnight

Amazon will stop accepting UK Visa credit cards from January.

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189362#Comment_118189362

In my experience it's often one's in supermarkets/shops.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189408#Comment_118189408

I heard that. Plus my uk debit cards have changed from Visa to Mastercard. ?

yoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188303#Comment_118188303

Maybe they think they are experts at it, but based on what I've seen, it's rubbish and probably a majority of self-employed people who I've dealt with or known have their own ways of dodging income tax.

For example how does revenue determine how many days a week a taxi driver has worked, if the taxi driver drives around with their meter off? How can they enforce a payment in court on a takeaway that claims it had lower income than it did, based on just some average amount they picked out of a hat, based on what other similar takeaways in the area reported (if any exist!)?

The "best estimate that someone in Revenue's position can do" has nothing to do with the actual cashflow of a business.

It's similar to how the government just believed some bank person's figure of "€8 billion needed for bailout", when the actual figure turned out to be something noone knew (something like €64 billion in the end). The point I'm making is that it's NOT easy for Revenue to accurately know how much someone has earned - they may think they know, but they don't have a clue in reality. This is not an "Irish" problem, it's a problem in every single country - it won't be solved just by switching everything to use credit cards, but at least it will make it slightly harder to under-declare income.

Tow

The very reason why Self Employed people did not get a 'PAYE' Tax Credit was because is was assuming they were pocketing some cash. But now in this PC world that view is seen as unacceptable! Revenue tend to got after targets they can easily get results from. Just last week in the news they 'settled' with a large company for far less than was owed. No doubt it was seen as not worth the effort, or there was political interference!

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189487#Comment_118189487

You know very little about how revenue work.

Mantis Toboggan

Revenue simply don't have the Man power or resources to go after every taxi man, Chinese restaurant or anyone else dodging tax in the country. They just go after big targets or cases where there's lots of evidence.