HSE vs the "real world".

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide.

wrangler

The civil service will have to step up to the demand of the sick instead of trying to adapt the country to suit the health service.

It won't be solved until the public service work like the private sector, If the public service won't work, how does anyone think they can be trusted to do enough when they're working from home

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178918#Comment_118178918

Private sector front line staff get approx 30-50% more pay and better conditions of employment, better patient to staff ratios etc.

imagine the whinging of ye if more money had to go towards more staff and more wages, more holidays etc.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178918#Comment_118178918

I have being of the opinion for years that the admin in HSE needs to be put on a private management... i am talking HR accounts IT etc... Hospital admin staff need to work directly with Doctors etc...

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179124#Comment_118179124

Can’t comment on pay as don’t know but sounds far fetched but better conditions of employment 🤔🤔🤔…civil servants have jobs for life ,pensions sick pay schemes etc etc ….irks me when I hear them whinging

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179124#Comment_118179124

That's all the more reason to make it private as it must be a better system if people are being paid more... i expect better management and more efficient...

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179124#Comment_118179124

We're already paying more than enough for a decent health service. It's being wasted every chance they get, throwing more money at it isn't the answer.

Wait until the cutbacks start over the coming years and things get worse...

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179124#Comment_118179124

In the public service, more money doesn't mean more productivity, it just means more waste.

I'm already paying enough for a proper health service in my taxes, yet I have to pay health insurance to be sure of proper healthcare, go figure

I'll just quote a neighbour recently joined the public service '' if a young fellow had my job he'd be destroyed'' another neighbour said similar about the prison service

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179250#Comment_118179250

Let’s look to American healthcare to see how extensive private health services have worked out, these are profit making institutions, a nation shouldn’t hand over its health to nothing but profit seeking investors. Always remember, the board of a plc primary responsibility is profits for investors.

lack of accountability is the biggest failure in the health services. Other than that it’s an excellent organisation

carrollsno1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179646#Comment_118179646

On the apprenticeship at the moment the bulk of the work is on a state owned asset a fitter for the client told me one day i was blessed to be serving my time with the crowd im with his apprentice will end up with a nervous breakdown after his time served if hes not kept on and has to go out in the real world for work. He reckons its only a retirement home for broke up and beat up fitters over 50.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179969#Comment_118179969

Even back in the late 50's, early 60's my parents were living in the US. Great country they said, just don't get sick.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179969#Comment_118179969

Its no an organization.... it is not organized in any of what i see happening...

There is no way front-line health care be private.... admin and only this is what i am talking of....

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179646#Comment_118179646

Around 10 years ago in the height of the Celtic tiger aftermath a lad I know was collecting a roll off skip in the local hospital.

It was full of brand new beds still in the wrapper they use in hospitals that move up n down etc.he went inside to tell them of the mistake and eventually a lad turned up. Yer man said they've a budget to spend every year n if it's not spent they're money will be cut.

He was raging to the boss , on about Joe Duffy etc- the boss said he's sacked if he does, the hse were his best customer n never look for a discount! The boss flogged them to a nursing home so at least they got used in the end.

At the same time there was huge protests over services getting cut at the hospital, all the politicians involved etc. A complete basket case.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181748#Comment_118181748

Not even remotely true. It's a pub story done to death. I've heard the same one about IT equipment/CS furniture/County Council Machinery etc.

Edit: There's also the one about the refugee from Nigeria/Romania or the traveller mother that try to get on the bus with the pram but leave it behind because "HSE will give them a new one every week" etc.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181773#Comment_118181773

You know best lad. Hope ye getting proper funding from now on too! Anyone with any issues about the hse squandering dough are just jealous eh!

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181773#Comment_118181773

There’s truth in it …..ever see roads been resurfaced comming near end of year …often saw roads been done that absolutely nothing wrong with …..money in budget …has to be used up or budget cut next year ….or election comming up and local councillor has to be waving his todjer over something ….elements of public service stink

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181933#Comment_118181933

Of course.....I must work for the HSE/civil service....🙄

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182351#Comment_118182351

After the printer episode, you couldn't exaggerate the stupidity of the civil service .

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182407#Comment_118182407

It's not stupidity, it's lack of accountability.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182407#Comment_118182407

You think stupidity is exclusive to the Civil Service?

dh1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179969#Comment_118179969

Other than everything that's wrong with it you mean. Its a shambles. Heard on the radio this evening its the second best funded health service in the oecd, yet every winter there is a trolley crisis. Long waiting lists, no ambulance service and numerous scandals like cervical screening. More layers to it than an onion.an absentee rate higher double any private company. Point blank refusal by unions to change from paper based systems and this is tolerated by both union members and management and government. With what's spent on it it should be a great organisation but the money is been squandered. Ministry of health has been a poison chalice for three decades for a reason

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178918#Comment_118178918

“ It won’t be solved until the public service works like the private sector . “

That statement illustrates how poorly you understand how the sectors differ. The public service will only work properly when it’s management have the balls to tell politicians to fcuk off . And the people stop running to politicians to get them what they are not entitled to .

Today, so called managers and CEOs within the public service are beholden to politicians and this cannot end well

White Clover

Front line staff in the health service are A1. It's the layers and layers of middle management that need to be stripped away and an ethos of accountability instilled.

Too much dead wood holding the service back.

I personally know of a mid level administrator that works in the health service that would be incapable of working anywhere that was results driven.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183145#Comment_118183145

Anywhere that you can't be fired can't be good, I know a nurse who has three years sick leave taken and still skiving.

If there was a covid on the farm, you'd just get the work done, I don't know how any one could be over worked in a 38hr week.

They want to try the 120hr lambing/ calving weeks

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183293#Comment_118183293

Why didn’t you join the public service then if it was / is that easy ?

Who knows - You might have become a member of a trade union that actually represented its members

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183463#Comment_118183463

We alaways represented the hardest working and most productive members, public service would be a bit short on those😂 😂😎

wrangler

I have huge sympathy for those vaccnated patients in ICU or waiting to get into ICU.

At the moment 50% of ICU is taken up by the unvaccinated which is about 10%of the population, surely only the thckest of the unvaccinated wouldn't see the light now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184556#Comment_118184556

So IFA didn't represent IFA members it held a particular view on. Interesting.

I've worked most of my life in the private sector and more recently the civil service.

I work my full day as I did in thr private sector. My work and productivity is monitored just like it was in the private sector.

I don't know any civil servants sitting at home watching Netflix as some would have you believe

On health, I've experienced both sectors as a patient

One has all services running at least late into the night and weekends the other Monday to Friday. One is dependent on private funding the other on the whims of politicians making funds available to increase staff and services knowing that doing that will involve increased taxes and them not getting into power next time round. They're put into power by the likes of us because they got a pothole fixed on our road or passport expedited for the holidays to majorca. We get the system we deserve.

Easten

I've done plenty contract work for both the private and public. within each there are different employers, from the Multinationals to the small independents. Without a shadow of doubt the handiest numbers I've seen folks working in is for the multinationals. I remember one occasion where we were validating a new system and were due to get results this morning, I went into the control room, the operators were all there having the banter, watching youtube, checking private emails, to make it worse nobody was keeping an eye on production and they had used wrong work instructions that was not spotted till we arrived which was 3 days into the campaign. It must have cost the Multinational close to a million between lost production, outside contractors and their own staffs wages. It just beggared belief that not one person saw the road for this, not even a slap on the wrist.

In contrast I've seen health care assistants ran off there feet in those Hospitals, some of them getting a right dogging from the nurses, again it beggared belief that they could hold onto any staff to do the work they were doing for the money they were on.

In the public service there are 2 regimes. The old and the new. I know of a retired lad out of the urban council who was over the water-supply in the town. On retirement he got a golden handshake of 125k, and has a pension paying more per week than the man who got his job, again this beggars belief but this is Ireland for you.

timple23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179124#Comment_118179124

Is it cheaper in the long run for the HSE to hire all these private agency staff? No pensions, sick pay, PRSI to worry about.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179177#Comment_118179177

Yes definitely but mostly what's needed is to let most of them go 😉

green daries

The front line staff aren't paid enough for what they do

green daries

The politics has to be a huge handicap in the health service ..... All you need to say is children hospital

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189153#Comment_118189153

i expect they are paid enough but they are over-managed... they are professionals and do not need much managing just support with some situations... Then if there is not enough hire more......

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179124#Comment_118179124

What about pension comparison?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187953#Comment_118187953

Yeah ,American corporations are known for being soft employers ( rolls eyes)

Mad_maxx

Just realised this was the farming section, thought it was current affairs

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189806#Comment_118189806

Better put on your old clothes then.

:)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189783#Comment_118189783

Pension is, crap for new employees in Public sector

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189783#Comment_118189783

“new” hse contracts provides a very mediocre pension. Would be boring compared to pensions in private industry or private hospital.

you do see staff move from private hospitals to hse though, they get fed up being leaned on to manage the service based on revenue, so patients are looked at like a commodity to be brought back so more charges onto vhi can be made. more focus on patients likely to make multiple repeat visits like weight loss etc.