Exploiting narcissists.

The obvious is to avoid these people, and that's the accepted sort of advice. But sometimes you realise you're dealing with one and you're in a situation you didn't expect.

Is it possible to simply take advantage of their innate needs, rather than fall victim to them? I don't think doing so makes you a narcissist, it just makes you smarter than them.

Personally, I've been in the situation once and I wish I had just wrecked him. He thought so little of me, and I could have walked him down a path and pulled out when he needed me hurting him greatly. I instead pulled out early in that particular project.

It doesn't get talked about much. It's like they have a mythical status as a danger, when it could be a boon, maybe.

I think projected narcissism is one of the most overused topics on boards

Pop psychology is mainly drivel and putting people into behavioural boxes in your own head is no substitute for simply communicating with others

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170239#Comment_118170239

I think we're all a bit narcissist, and I think it's healthy to look out for one's self. A bit is good.

I read into it more last year. I think it's fairly rare to get that idea of someone whilst dealing with them. Google would help you more than I can.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218079/exploiting-narcissists

Would you not prefer to just have a fair and healthy dynamic with them? They're not single minded robots. You can keep your good boundaries and stay as detached as you'd like from them as far as needed to make it healthy and suitable. If you find they have no interest at all in that (Extremely rare).. then just go your separate way and enjoy your own fruits/needs without dragging someone else into it.

Jequ0n

You don’t come across that balanced yourself in your opening post, OP…

I agree that it’s one of the most over used labels out there. The amount of people who get branded as narcissists is quite impressive really.

Apiarist

I would second Alberta64's question. Who do you think narcissist's are? If they are what I think they are, the way to deal with them is to mind your own business and let them bask in their own perfect self image. No need for you to get involved.

But it seems you have some other definition of a narcissist?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170359#Comment_118170359

I don't. I have the common definition and have only met two people I thought were full-blown narcissists.

dxhound2005

How does a person fall victim to a narcissist? I would be more afraid of psychopaths.

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170374#Comment_118170374

Indeed, Mr. F is no longer fulfilling this role.

Dublinandy3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170398#Comment_118170398

Probably by replying to one of their threads they create on boards.

Gregor Samsa

Ads by Google: Google would help you more than I can.

What I've learned from this thread is that the advertising and search engine arms of Alphabet Inc. aren't as intertwined as we think.

NSAman

Lucky you. One of my business partners is a narcissist.

One thing that they cannot abide is thinking that they are NOT in control of you. Despite being a good person, with a good heart (at times), he is oblivious to the emotions of others and constantly abuses people. Manipulation and temper tantrums are the order of the day. With me they simply do not work. Quick fire tempers, personal abuse and trying to manipulate any situation has seen me become more and more hardened to the stupidity of his personality. Staff hate him, customers avoid him, yet when in the "social" side of the job he is charming and outgoing.

The ONLY way to deal with him, is to be direct, forceful and shock the hell out of him. The fact he has no power over me and if I leave, the business fails means he is now on the backfoot. He will deflect anger to others, so I am constantly battling making people happy in the office and protecting them. Its not easy.

Narcissism is one of the most annoying types of human being, they are fully functional, normally higher intellect and twist and turn any argument to suit themselves. Empathy is not part of the intellectual make-up. Dealing with them can wear you down, UNLESS you can attack and play them at their own game. It has taken me years, but now I am in that position of dealing with a narcissist.

As a person my business partner is (out of the office) warm and engaging, generous to all, has "some" very good qualities, yet destroys it with his inability to see other people's points of view, has zero empathy and is argumentative for no reason what-so-ever.

Many cannot handle a narcissist, dealing with them is so different than dealing with an ordinary person.

Wow, NSAman.. That's the sort of thing I had in mind.

I cut this guy out of my life one weekend dooming multiple opportunities but at the time, it was the only option knowing what he was.

Very interesting post.

BrianD3

In a workplace situation, what would specific characteristics of a narcissist be? Taking credit for others' work, never being wrong, being an expert on everything, constantly bullsh*tting and trying to one up others, being a Walter Mitty? In that case I've come across a few, they are constantly ridiculed behind their backs and occasionally made to look stupid in meetings. It can be useful to form uneasy alliances with them though and gain their trust while at the same time agreeing with those who ridicule them.

Yester

if you can get them to look into a body of water, they will fall in and drown.

dxhound2005

I think NSAman may be dealing with a psychopath.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170511#Comment_118170511

Why? What are you basing this on?

Serious question because I always wonder how lay people think they can diagnose these things with confidence.

There are a few people on boards who genuinely seem to think that they have the skill to recognise disorders with ease, which I find rather puzzling.

dxhound2005

I was just going by the description given by NSAman. There is a lot more material there to puzzle you.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170685#Comment_118170685

So as expected you have no basis for your claim. Thank you.

dxhound2005

My confidence level is less than you think. That is why I said may be.

You are able to recognise people on Boards "who genuinely seem to think that they have the skill to recognise disorders". I applaud your talent.

Jequ0n

They’d be the ones throwing labels and diagnosis around, usually based on one post. It doesn’t take a lot to notice them sadly.

But go ahead and impress everyone with your buzzwords.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170511#Comment_118170511

To a degree you are dealing with a psychopath.

The person in question had a very unorthodox upbringing. His behaviour has been enabled all his life. Most would be terrified to deal with him, BUT.... always a but.... the guy has lots or redeeming qualities. He cannot stand that he has no power over me at this stage. This terrifies him. I can use that to my advantage but I don't. I have many people that I employ who it would make very difficult for. He is intellectually incredible. A smart man, VERY smart...however, his people skills leave a LOT to be desired. He is a fantastic friend (he will do ANYTHING to help others) but gets taken advantage of all the time.

I actually feel sorry for him in many respects. Ultimately he is a very good person, yet this side of him is just awful. People in my opinion are inherently good. The fact his upbringing has caused some of this personality disorder means if I can deal with it, I will.

Believe me, some days it is a nightmare. However, for his sake and my sake and everyone that works with us, I can be nasty or nice depending on the situation required. It has taken me years to figure this out.

Jequ0n

The level of stupidity in this thread is even worse than I had anticipated.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171844#Comment_118171844

Spoken like a true Narcissist.. ;)

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172044#Comment_118172044

Said the self proclaimed psychopath “to a degree”. Whatever that is supposed to mean.

Just because a phrase is over used, doesn't mean what it's describing doesn't exist.

But all we non psychologists/psychiatrists can do is recognise potential traits, not state for a fact that someone is a narcissist.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/basics/narcissism?amp

I have met people who have sometimes behaved shabbily, but to me a narcissist is a person who consistently lives moment to moment by undermining others without apparent conscience.

I worked with at least one individual who would undermine just about everybody. Would befriend members of the public who would visit the office and tell them what difficult staff they were working with. Staff got to know this by some inadvertent feedback from one or two said customers. Other times emails with malicious content about staff members got fired off. Whilst utterly conniving, this person was utterly stupid and could not cover tracks and would leave tell-tale traces all over the place.

There was some quite serious stuff at play, even their own family got undermined, by I won’t go further into that. Whatever one might label this, narcissism, sociopathy, they certainly had a very unpleasant way of conducting themselves in life, causing ripples of consequence wherever they went.

I thought about whether to post this here because it's generally more suited to a faith based audience (and there's an appropriate forum for that) but if you can look past that part, the difference between pride and narcissism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMRNNJwnLo it gives a bullet point list of some of the qualities and where you might find them. tldr version: Narcissism is a scale and some people are high on the scale (celebrities, politicians, academics tend to score higher) with the norms scoring lower, although there is a recognized condition called narcissistic personality disorder which is often combined with the two other "malevolent" personality traits, psychopathy and Machiavellianism (the dark triad).

(she referenced Dr Greg Bottaro clinical psychologist podcast being human)

riclad

A narcissist is a person who is obsessed with themselves and has a very high opinion of themselves it's not the same as a sociopath who is ruthless and has no empathy for other people eg they are ruthless and dangerous They will be cruel and hurt other people if it serves a purpose and helps their career or earns them more money . they literally do not care about other people. They are ruthless . Eg the American Jewish conman he defrauded 100s of people mostly Jewish people in a ponzi scheme which collapsed when the stock market declined

Theres a program on hbo about a conman who simply marrys older women and takes all their money and then just leaves them he has done this about 5 times at least its very hard in America to prove fraud if you marry a man and he takes your money. I think you can be a narcissist without being dangerous or evil.

And there's people who are stupid and very negative and selfish and will cause problems or trouble for other people even if it does not help thier career in any way

85603

Put a w4nky sounding logo on some slightly higher grade cheap Chinese clothing.

Tell them its exclusive. Sell them a tshirt for 300 euro.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170239#Comment_118170239

Elon Musk, Kanye West, Donald Trump

Apiarist

If you want to exploit a narcissist, you should play on their feelings of self-importance, reinforcing their delusions and gaining favour by making you less repugnant to the narcissist than others who do not appreciate the narcissist's brilliance. However, in my eyes, this would make you a manipulative psycho.

From https://www.emedicinehealth.com/what_are_the_nine_traits_of_a_narcissist/article_em.htm:

How Is Narcissism Diagnosed?

Narcissistic personality disorder (narcissism) is diagnosed using The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) criteria. A person must meet five of nine of the following traits for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

1. A grandiose sense of self-importance 
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Belief that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement
6. Is interpersonally exploitative – takes advantage of others
7. Lacks empathy
8. Envies others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors and attitudes

Brid Hegarty

@[Deleted User] It doesn't get talked about much. It's like they have a mythical status as a danger, when it could be a boon, maybe.

I'm not sure I follow... even after looking up the word 'boon'.

Jequ0n

An interesting thread. So far I have learned that it is acceptable to exploit some people’s weaknesses, whilst most people usually condemn any behaviour of the kind. I will keep that in mind.

In Actuality

I feel like I've become an expert at spotting narcissists of late. It can make life so much easier when you see the red flags.

Brid Hegarty

I heard there's more male narcissists than female.

Brid Hegarty

They are typically blame shifters... another warning sign for such a person.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170374#Comment_118170374

Tell us a thing or two about the full blown narcs you've encountered? If you wouldn't mind.

Jequ0n

@Brid Hegarty is this going to be a revelation a day like an advent calendar?

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183204#Comment_118183204

I think that's all I've to say for now. I just find dealing with them interesting.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183278#Comment_118183278

I was half joking but would have found it entertaining too

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183431#Comment_118183431

Found what entertaining? You mean if I kept posting? I've a lot of tails to tell about narcs.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183461#Comment_118183461

It sounded like a fun fact a day thing, so yes.

ILoveYourVibes

I think you have to reach out in kindness to the ones you think are in the wrong.

Even narcissists have feelings. And they don't deserve game playing.

dogbert27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176376#Comment_118176376

I think nearly everybody will be guilty of a few of those at some points in their lives.

What has been referred to as the pop psychology is that should somebody, i.e. an ex partner display some form of self centred decision they are automatically branded a narcissist.

I tried be clear that I'm not talking about self-centred people etc.

I'm talking about actual dangerous narcissists who will destroy your life. I was over the age of 30 when I first met one and had to research what they could be.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184442#Comment_118184442

What made you believe that this person was dangerous?

And don’t you think you stoop to the same level if you deliberately seek out to exploit said person?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184464#Comment_118184464

He tried to steal my company.

And just because a term is overused, it doesn't mean the original doesn't exist. Like maybe you just haven't met one.

As for stooping to their level, no. My ideas of morality are more advanced than a 13-year-old's.

zom

People started to pay well for it (for someone else narcissism) so no surprise it is rocketing like a rocket nowdays...

boardlady

I know one true narcissist. How she interacted with her children was chilling. They are shaped for life by her actions. She blames anybody and everybody for everything in her life that she does not like. Absolutely no personal responsibility and endless deflection. And the desire to control their father was at the root of everything. When he left her and she 'lost' control of him, she almost allowed it to kill her. So yes, 'taking' control of oneself away from a narcissist will always unhinge them. However, if you are embroiled with this person in either a family or business partnership and cannot escape them, then this will inevitably lead to further woes for you. I think NSAman's description of his business partner sounds spot on. I cannot say that this woman is 'evil' or 'malicious' - she is well able to be charming to others and to have others believe her side of stories, but the desire to control others, both physically and how they think, is compulsive. The greatest tool her husband ever had against her was his indifference to her. It may not have been completely true, but if he gave her the impression he was indifferent to whatever she was up to at any given time, it was by far the most effective way of disempowering her. She would happily engage in conflict for ever more than to face his indifference.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184041#Comment_118184041

A person would have to be a prize chump to reach out in kindness to someone who is totally toxic.