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TFI Fare Revisions from 28th November - New 90 minute fare included in new simplified fare system.

  • 15-11-2021 1:20pm
    #1
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    TFI 90 Minute Fare

    The new TFI 90 Minute Fare will allow free transfer between different public transport services in the Dublin area within 90 minutes of your first trip. The new fare will replace existing fares from 28th of November. It will apply to Dublin city bus services operated by Dublin Bus and Go Ahead Ireland, Luas, and most DART and commuter rail services in the Dublin area.

    The new fare structure includes a short distance fare for single trips less than 3KM and the TFI 90 Minute Fare. The TFI 90 Minute Fare will apply to trips that are greater than 3KM and also trips that use any combination of applicable transport services within 90 minutes. These transport services include Dublin city bus and Luas services as well as DART and commuter rail services in zones 1 to 4 in the Short Hop Zone.

    Main Changes - Dublin city bus services operated by Dublin Bus and Go Ahead Ireland

    • Introduction of a new short adult fare of €1.60, to replace the 1-3 stage fare, enabling passengers to travel slightly further.
    • The TFI 90 Minute Fare, priced at €2.30 during an introductory period until early 2022, will combine the existing 4-13 and 13+ stage fares with the added benefit of free transfer on additional services when touching on within 90 minutes of the first journey. At the end of the promotional period the fare will be €2.50.
    • A new child fare will be introduced for all journeys, priced at €0.80. This fare will allow all children to travel anywhere on the Dublin city bus network, with the additional benefit of a free transfer to any additional applicable service when touching on within 90 minutes of the first journey.
    • Xpresso fares will remain the same for both adults and children, with the added benefit of free transfer within 90 minutes.
    • Nitelink fares will remain the same for both adults and children, with the added benefit of free transfer within 90 minutes.

    Main Changes - Luas

    • Introduction of a new short adult fare of €1.60, to replace 1 zone fare
    • The TFI 90 Minute Fare, priced at €2.30 during an introductory period until early 2022, will combine the existing 2 – 8 zone fares with the added benefit of free transfer on additional services when touching on within 90 minutes of the first journey. At the end of the promotional period the fare will be set at €2.50.
    • A new child fare will be introduced for all journeys, priced at €0.80. This fare will allow all children to travel anywhere on the Luas network, with the additional benefit of a free transfer to any additional services when touching on within 90 minutes of the first journey.

    Main Changes - Rail Services operated by Iarnród Éireann

    • Introduction of a new short adult fare of €1.60, to replace the existing 1 zone fare, enabling passengers to travel slightly further.
    • The TFI 90 Minute Fare, priced at €2.30 during an introductory period until early 2022, will combine the existing 2-4 zone fares with the added benefit of free transfer on additional services when touching on within 90 minutes of the first journey. At the end of the promotional period the fare will be set at €2.50.
    • The new 90 minute boundary includes the original zones 1 to 4, covering stations as far as Rush & Lusk to the north of Dublin city, Bray to the south, Hazelhatch to the southwest, Maynooth to the west and M3 Parkway to the northwest.
    • Existing 5 & 6 zone fares will remain the same, with the added benefit of free transfer within 90 minutes.
    • A new child fare will be introduced for all journeys, priced at €0.80. This fare will allow all children to travel anywhere within the Short Hop Zone, with the additional benefit of a free transfer to any additional services when touching on within 90 minutes of the first journey.

    Leap Capping rates set to be unchanged.

    All Leap caps in Dublin, both daily and weekly including multi-Operator caps, will remain at current levels.

    Leap 90 to be withdrawn following introduction of the TFI 90 minute fare.

    The Leap 90 travel discount will be discontinued from 28th November, once then new fares go live.

    Further and full details on fare changes to follow later today.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭ bg07




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    Really a big disincentive to use cash now for non short fares, not only is the premium over leap €1, but also the cash fares obviously don't have the transfer potential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭ Leonard Hofstadter


    Seems like a very welcome set of improvements.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    Press release from NTA

    TFI 90 Minute fare to support seamless travel across the Public Transport Network in Dublin

    New 80 cent flat fare for children up to and including 18 years with the option of a free transfer within 90 minutes

    The National Transport Authority (NTA) has today announced the introduction of the TFI 90 Minute fare across Transport for Ireland services in the Dublin area from the 28th November 2021. The revamping of the fare system will allow passengers free transfer between Dublin Bus, Luas and most DART, commuter rail and Go-Ahead Ireland services in Dublin within 90 minutes of initial touch on.

    A simplified fares structure is one of the key components of the BusConnects programme which is designed to provide a better, more reliable and more efficient bus service for everyone.

    The TFI 90 Minute fare will be just €2.30 for adults and students when using their TFI Leap Card during a promotional period to remain in place until the end of March 2022.

    A new flat child Leap fare will be only 80 cent, allowing children to travel anywhere on Dublin city bus, Luas and commuter rail and Dart services within the Short Hop Zone, with a free transfer to any mode within 90 minutes of initial touch on. This is a 20% discount for children using the bus out of school hours, with bigger decreases on other services.

    The introduction of TFI 90 will make interchange between Bus, Dart and Luas seamless, resulting in a more affordable, efficient and integrated public transport system.

    The new short adult leap fare of €1.60 for single trips up to 3km, will enable 40% more passengers to travel slightly further in the new structure. Any journeys beyond this distance or involving transfers between services that take place within 90 minutes of the start, will be charged at the TFI 90 Minute fare.

    NTA Chief Executive Officer Anne Graham said:

    “Today is a significant day as it marks the implementation of another key component of BusConnects programme in Dublin. The introduction of the new structure will incentivise a return to public transport across the TFI network.

    It provides an opportunity to create simplicity and consistency across the network regardless of the route or mode taken. It also means a significant saving for people who need to transfer between services.”

    Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan said:

    “It is essential that we provide the incentives that make public transport a viable and attractive choice for employees, students, shoppers and visitors. The introduction of the TFI 90 Minute fare is central to achieving this objective and encouraging more people to get back on-board.

    In moving more people from their car to public transport we can help to achieve Ireland’s carbon reduction targets as set out in the Programme for Government. This is another great step in making the city a more liveable and easily accessible environment.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    Public information for the Irish Rail short hop zone is going to be as clear as dishwater once this change is implemented unless the presentation of it changes in the meantime. I didn't even know there was short hop 'zones' until this press release.

    If someone has a taxsaver ticket for one mode of transport, say Dublin Bus, I'm assuming that there's not going to be any preferential fare for transfers to another mode of transport not covered by their taxsaver ticket? The cynical side of me says that the NTA will sit on their hands with restructuring taxsaver to reflect this multimodal ticketing. Taxsaver tickets for 2022 are still split by operator, even though the new fares are operator agnostic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭ davetherave


    Yeah will be curious to see how that would work. With an Annual Dublin City Bus Ticket I'm only validating it, I'm not buying a ticket, or deducting a cash balance from the e-purse so we'll have to wait and see what happens with those.

    They do say this in the report:

     It is envisaged that a further determination will be necessary in 2022 in respect of other adjustments necessary to fully align Leap with cash and prepaid fares, and in addition, to address all monthly and annual tickets, including Taxsaver as well as the changes required to bring into effect the Government’s decision to reduce fares on all public transport services to 50% of the adult fare for all young persons under the age of 24. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ Tomrota


    So all PSO bus services within the short hop zone will avail of the ability to transfer within 90 minutes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer



    It applies to the city bus services operated by Dublin Bus or Go Ahead Ireland.

    Not the regional bus services operated by Bus Éireann or Go Ahead Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    The Short Hop zone is the area within which the more heavily subsidised Dublin fares apply.

    Irish Rail fares are distance based, and they have steadily reduced the number of fares to six within the Short Hop Zone in December 2018.

    Personally, I think that the use of the term "zones" relating to fares within the Short Hop Zone is probably not the best choice of words and just causes confusion.

    Basically for each station within the Short Hop Zone, every other station has a fare from that station based on distance, and these fares are categorised into six separate distance ranges from each station, into 1 (Cheapest), 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 (Dearest).

    In other words they are not zones per se, but rather graduated fares based on distance for every single station pairing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    They either need to redraw the short hop zone on Irish Rail so that it aligns with leap fares, or else they need to actually draw the zones on the publicly available Irish Rail maps. At the moment, the map shows short hop zone as far out as Kilkoole on the south side, even though the preferential fares only go as far as Bray.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer



    It's a bit more complicated than that.

    The Short Hop Zone does run to Balbriggan, Howth, M3 Parkway, Kilcock, Sallins & Naas and Kilcoole.

    Within that zone, the fares are on the more heavily subsidised Suburban Fares Matrix and not the Intercity fares matrix.

    That's the easy bit.

    Now, the NTA have introduced a further zone within that, bounded by Rush & Lusk, Howth, M3 Parkway, Maynooth, Hazelhatch and Bray, within which the 90 minute multi-modal fare of EUR 2.30 (EUR 2.50) will apply for trips from the city centre.

    As I said above, the fares across the short hop zone, are not based on what anyone would think of as zones (like in London), but rather there are six fare categories, which are distance based, and which means that every station will have unique fares to other stations.

    So, for example, the map at the end of the NTA fare determination where they show "Zone 5" and "Zone 6" applies to Dublin City Centre stations only.

    Raheny would have a completely different fare category map, based on distance, as would, for example, Leixlip Confey.

    Every single station will have an individual set of fares based on the distances travelled from them and these will be categorised within fare categories 1-6.

    Confused? Well so am I - take a train trip from Maynooth to Bray.

    That's fare category 5, but yet is in the new inner zone covered by the 90 minute fare. So what fare applies?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    Surely a Maynooth to Bray journey would be covered by the 90 minute fare? I totally forgotten this tidbit, but short hop zone is to indicate where leap card can be used for payment on IR. My point is just that the information needs to be clearer: just show the short-fare zone on the short hop map.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    The short hop zone for using the leap card includes Kilcoole, bit Kilcoole does not have a leap card validator. I'm not surprised at the new fares being confusing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    Well one would think so - but currently that trip from Maynooth is in fare category 5 based on the distance travelled from Maynooth.

    So I don't know is the answer. Some clarification is needed on this.

    Just to clarify that while the Short Hop Zone is is the area around Dublin where you can use LEAP, the primary defining point is that it is where the more heavily subsidised Dublin Suburban Fares matrix applies on Irish Rail, for both cash and LEAP fares, as opposed to the higher InterCity fares matrix.



  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ SeeMoreBut


    With the 90 minute fare which is good for some people will people get the pleasure of paying extra due to a points failure?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭ MOH


    Am I missing something or is this is basically an 11% fare increase on most single bus journeys (4 to 13 stages)?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Irish Steve


    The issue that's going to raise a lot of blood pressure in Meath is that Ashbourne (and South Meath) is Bus Eireann, not Dublin Bus, and it seems there's nothing for this area in the new plan, despite being closer to the city than Balbriggan and Maynooth etc. A historic anomaly that seems to have been completely ignored by this change. Doesn't affect me personally, as I have free travel now anyway, but there will be a lot of unhappy commuters in this area. Also completely unclear is what the position is with the Go Ahead Swords - Ashbourne service.

    No great surprise, this area has been badly treated by service providers for most of the 30 years we've lived here, it's only very recently there were any alternatives other than Busaras from Ashbourne, and even now, there are very few alternatives if you don't work in the city centre.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭ SteM


    How does this work if someone gets on a Dart in Greystones and then changes to a Luas in Connolly to Heuston 70 minutes later? I assume nothing changes and it will be full fare for both journeys (€4.90 + €2.10).

    But you could theoretically get an 84 from Greystones, change to a Dart in Bray and then change to a Luas in Connolly under the new fare structure. Is that correct?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭ Stevek101


    All fares seems to have the 90 minute feature. So it'll just be €4.90.


    For bus users its a fare increase for all stages 1-13. However there is no increase for 13+, unless of course you use to make a transfer than you are making a saving. I reckon that's why its €2.30 for the next few months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    Presumably they would then be happy to have their buses stop at every bus stop in the city en route to pick up and set down rather than the limited stop service that they currently have?

    I suspect not.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Irish Steve


    At peak periods, there wouldn't be a lot of point picking up, there's no space, but it's moot anyway, there's not that many stops that are not used between Finglas and Abbey Street. That said, I'd be more in favour of reducing the number of in city stops, if, and there's the rub, there was a sensible interlink to allow the use of city buses to feed the longer routes. Not just for the Ashbourne area, for a number of routes, the ideal scenario would be to have "interchange" hubs in the vicinity of the M50 where major routes from further out are joining, and then have high speed non stop feeder services from those hubs to the centre, and to other hubs and areas, but that would mean a fundamental change to the structure of service. As an example, it's long overdue that M3 Parkway should be such a hub, and services like the 109 should run non stop from M3 Parkway down the port tunnel to the centre, and then have feeders in to M3 to cover places like Blanchardstown, Finglas, the industrial estates, and across to places like Red Cow, where similar interchanges could be operated, as the massive shortcoming of too much of the present system is that it's focussed on the city centre, and getting from (say) Finglas to Sandyford is not an eay or quick journey.

    The concept of a metro that covers much of the route of the M50 was proposed a long time ago, and it still a totally valid concept, but it needs to be capable of running at reasonable frequency and high speed, not messing around at street level like the LUAS concept, the requirement is to be able to get people from one side of the city to the other, without making the centre of the city a high volume interchange, but we don't seem to have the people with enough vision to make that happen. There are massive numbers of very large industrial areas around the city now, and that's only going to continue, but getting to those areas by public transport is not as easy as it needs to be, the result being massive numbers of cars going to those areas every day.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    Totally agree about the €2.25 increase to €2.50. I could live with €2.30, but an 11% fare increase is too great.

    Let’s be honest, this is to facilitate a relatively small number of people by comparison. I welcome the 90 minute ticket, but it’s coming at a price.

    As for the detailed mechanics of the “short” fare, it seems that the NTA are keeping this as secret as the last secret of Fatima!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭ Stevek101


    The sub 3km fare is in all likelihood going to be stage 1-3. They are claiming that 40% of people on this short fare will be able to go "slightly further" without any detail of who these commuters are or even if they are bus users.

    It would be nice to see who is using what fare, I recall the 4-13 was the most used a few years ago. So I would agree most will be seeing a 25c increase and many will not want to use the interchange. The whole reason for bringing it in was that Busconnects would require many to get a transfer to complete their journeys but the local TDs put a stop to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    I suspect it’ll be 1-4 stages due to the extra length claim.

    To be fair, changing will happen more once the new orbitals are launched next year.

    They will be straighter than the current ones and that may mean people changing to do current trips.

    Also in this phase, users of parts of routes 25, 66a and 66b will all need to change if making off-peak trips to the city, as will anyone travelling between Chapelizod and points west of Palmerstown.

    It is essential to have the 90 minute ticket to implement this phase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭ Stevek101


    I completely agree a 90 minute was needed but it would of been better to have a short non interchange fare rather than a sub 3km fare. Basically the current 2.25 reduced to 2 or 1.75 to increase public transport usage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ B2021M


    Yes that increase has been hidden in all the headlines and affects far more people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,820 ✭✭✭ billyhead


    Sorry for the stupid question. Say you need to get a bus and train into town. Do you tag on once on the bus and than tag off at the end of the train journey in say Pearse Street for the 90 minutes rate to apply or do you have to tag on when you board the bus and also at the departing train station and than tag off as normal at Pearse Street?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭ Stevek101


    I reckon you'll be tagging on and off as normal. But will only be charged the 90 minute fare €2.30/€2.50.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,972 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer




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