Schools to close again.. Covid

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397415#Comment_118397415

I'm not a primary teacher, but I'd imagine it is very very hard - for teacher and for student, but moreso for student - at primary level, to be online all day. They really do need someone beside them all day.

Hopefully this is all speculation over nothing. Try not to worry just yet

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397387#Comment_118397387

I totally agree with this. I certainly know that I'd have half my LC group out - some come and go as they please anyway. Those who wouldn't be in (and there'd be plenty with infection rates as high as they are) would lose out completely.

noplacehere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397478#Comment_118397478

Absenteeism is such a major unacknowledged problem currently except by staff trying to keep them up to speed

Bobtheman

I still believe they will delay schools going back for at least a week.

I have always been suspect about schools are safe environment propaganda. I was also shocked to see no ventilators in September and still no sign of them by Dec. Aghast I was.

timmymagoo

Why don't they just call it now, what annoys me is the unneccessary drama

I need to know are my children back the 6th or not , if not I need to sort it with work and arrange whatever state payment I can get

I am like the majority if workers in this country, my employer will not pay me and I will be under pressure to pay bills

But regardless stop dithering and just call it

Treppen

They've put a cap on PCR testing 4-39 year olds so in true Department of Ed fashion... If you don't test then it doesn't exist (Just like the Junior Cycle at this stage 🤣).

Norma says wait till Tuesday.

Bobtheman

At least this time she is talking to the unions. I agree that parents deserve more notice. What miracle will occur the next few days?? The second coming?They could call it now.

Random sample

I might be giving her too much credit, but maybe this year she wants to make a full statement when she makes it.

Last year, it went from 3 extra days holidays, to special Ed only, to 6th Years… to remote teaching til whenever.

We waited til the end of February to hear plans for LC and JC.

Maybe Tuesday evening she will announce the full plan, because nobody will believe ‘all will be as normal’.

The uncertainty is a killer. You can be sure of nothing any more.

connected1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399374#Comment_118399374

Absolutely they should call it now. In fact, they should really have called it before the holidays. This nonsense of the schools are safe, the schools will reooen" up until the 11th hour is so ridiculous. At least give parents time to plan.

Random sample

The fact that we are all calling for them to ‘call it’ when they have very clearly said schools will be back shows that we don’t believe them.

If there was nuance in their statements they’d have some hope people would believe them.

timmymagoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399419#Comment_118399419

They could say for example Jan 17 th and re viewed a week in advance

If the schools close I am probably going to ship my kids to family in England for the duration of the closure

Have no choice as I need my wages

GeorgeBailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399324#Comment_118399324

Ventilators? Yikes! Things are way worse in schools than I had realised.

What will a 1 week delay achieve? What changes after that week that makes schools in any way safer than they were the week before? The answer is of course nothing. If there's any delay at all it will be next to impossible to reopen schools for weeks to come.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399470#Comment_118399470

Exactly. Any suggestion from unions, NPHET or the government of a short delay will be lies. Schools will either open or stay shut for a long time.

am_zarathustra

A short, sharp closure could absolutely work now. The delay the last time was to allow for the vulnerable to be vaccinated, worth keeping things shut for as long as we did. This time you just need to quash it in the population, whatever is seeded over Christmas, with current high vaccination rates the maths is wildly different from last year.

17th of January could easily do this, or certainly help. Take back the discretionary Easter days and you'd only be talking about 3/4 days out of school really. Honestly we won't have the staff to open next week anyway or very close to not having it, we won't be the only school!

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399662#Comment_118399662

Can’t see how that would work. With no criteria for reopening what could possibly trigger the schools to go back. How can you be so sure things will so dramatically improve in such a short period of time?

shesty

It took 7?8? Weeks last time, and a lot of pressure to reopen just for the younger end of primary.Some secondary school students weren't in school til the middle of April.

At the rate this thing is accelerating, it might be end April/end May by the time we could look at "safely" reopening schools, and it would mean having everything closed at the same time to achieve the desired effect.

Is that a road we really want to go down (again?)? For the third year running? I can't say whether I agree or disagree with closing schools to be honest; on one hand, cases are high and yeah, we have not opened schools in such situations -but on the other hand we are are almost all vaccinated; we are rolling out boosters and kid's vaccines; closing schools won't achieve much on it's own, many other sectors will have to close too, which is an extremely hard argument when everyone is vaccinated - and most likely won't prevent people from mixing in houses; online schooling just does not work, and then how do you rejudge when to open??It is a very tricky decision, but on balance, letting schools open seems like a marginally better option, although I appreciate staffing shortages are a major obstacle.

I don't see what way this will go, but I am with most other parents in not trusting or believing a word coming out of anybody.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399470#Comment_118399470

I don't ever get the logic of why a delay makes reopening more difficult. It doesn't follow. If there's a need for a delay it's (presumably) because of infection rates. It's reopening is difficult it (presumably) can only be because of infection rates. The idea that one (a delay) affects the other (eventual reopening) is a logical fallacy. They are both symptoms of a problem rather than one causing the other. In fact if there's any connection between the two it's a positive one as not having people in schools for a few weeks would allow installation of whatever equipment they are pretending they'll install.

I agree with the idea, though, that closing for a week is pointless. If they don't reopen it seems logical that it would be in line with the current date on other restrictions (end of Jan). The situation with infection rates and hospitalisation will be worse on 13th January than 6th January so closing for a week would be a badly judged fudge and would lead to embarrassing announcements a few days later again, confirming the stereotypical indecision and equivocation.

Can't see the schools reopening if the peak of cases is not expected until mid January. I do not want my children to miss the full experience of school but for their safety would prefer a short term closure until cases settle.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399694#Comment_118399694

A government decision would trigger the schools going back. That's easy.

How can anyone be sure things will improve dramatically? Nobody can. Previous experience (last January/February) suggests that if the right measures are taken quite significant improvements can happen relatively quickly. But certainty is a staggeringly high bar with which to measure decision-making. You'll not decide much if you have to wait to be sure.

GeorgeBailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399774#Comment_118399774

I agree there's no logical reason to the whole "if we don't open this week we won't open for ages". But the politics of it all means this will be the case.

The government want to open as scheduled. The unions don't. If the government cede to the unions then they (the unions) have their precedent of "well you agreed the numbers were too high last week. They're still not looking great so you must be having a laugh if you're considering reopening this week".

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399742#Comment_118399742

I don't understand how you on the one hand suggest schools should, on balance, open now while at the same time regard a decision on reopening a few weeks down the road as fraught with problems (when presumably things will have improved). Why does an active decision to reopen later have to be so much more difficult than the passive decision of not changing the original date.

I understand arguments to not physically reopen schools. I understand arguments to do so anyway irrespective of the situation. What I don't understand why not physically reopening them has to turn people into scared indecisive wrecks a few weeks later unable to decide when to act.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399827#Comment_118399827

Sorry, this has cropped up a few times about the Unions.

Have you a source for this - that the unions are against opening up. I just have seen it mentioned a few times but have not seen comments from the Unions.

Random sample

The orals are happening over Easter, so I don’t think we can go to school then too, the whole point of that was to release examiners.

jackboy

The schools opening have never and will not be decided by logic, that’s where people are misinterpreting what is going to happen. If we shut the schools with no criteria for reopening the government cannot reopen without permission from the unions. The unions will be cautious and also will have no criteria for reopening. That is why reopening is difficult every single time. Just opening at the usual time after Christmas is much much easier.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399470#Comment_118399470

The current wave should have peaked by then

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399775#Comment_118399775

"For their safety"? What's going to happen them if they get it? A bit of a head cold? This thing doesn't affect kids in the same way as adults.

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399833#Comment_118399833

It doesn't have to.

But past performance by our leaders would suggest that they procrastinate around making these decisions.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399938#Comment_118399938

Any government worth its salt will avoid specific criteria. Look at the famous "road map" for opening hospitality which meant that the government opened nightclubs as cases were beginning to get out of hand. If there was no "road map", no specific date given they could have fudged this.

I won't discuss what the Unions "will or won't" have as I can't predict the future. But if schools were to not reopen, what criteria would YOU suggest for reopening. Just curious as to how this would work in practice.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399986#Comment_118399986

They need to explain why they are closing and what will need to happen for reopening to occur. That could include case numbers, hospital numbers or ICU numbers. Or maybe reopening could occur when air hygiene in classrooms has been sorted out.

These are only examples, the criteria would need to be decided scientifically using measurable parameters. The road map you mentioned was not based on criteria.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399940#Comment_118399940

But a "peak" is a relative term. It tells nothing the trajectory or pace of change. You could still have very high figures for weeks. That's not saying we will - I don't know, but I don't think a notional "peak" is a reliable landmark for an immediate decision a week after schools are due to go back. We have had illusory peaks in the past. Closing for a week won't happen. It'll be longer or not at all.