Child free benefits in the workplace??

DebzKer

Hi all I'm new to this so please bear with me. I'm currently undertaking a project and trying to establish if anyone is aware of any Irish companies who offer benefits to those who are childfree by choice or circumstance? Are you aware that offer any paid time off to purse interests or who offer pet leave if you have a sick animal on your hands? Anyone aware of companies that offer any specific child free network in there companies? Given the shift away from the Traditional family it seems companies are lagging behind with this!

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217494/child-free-benefits-in-the-workplace

Why do you think being child free would mean you should be treated differently? People who have kids still have sick animals and want to pursue other interests as well...

Aisling(",)

I'm not aware of anything like that.

Everyone has their annual leave and can use it how they choose. Parental leave is statutory but unpaid and a lot of companies let you take unpaid leave in a similar way.

I'd never begrudge anyone maternity/paternity leave I couldn't imagine the level of tired and stress that new parents are going through.

I've certainly never come across it.

I think where there can be an issue workwise is where childfree people are expected to take on extra work, or do the majority of travel, etc. The latter happened to me a lot in a previous job. As if we don't have lives or other commitments if we don't have kids.

Any decent company won't behave like that though.

If people were treated differently by their employers due to having children / not having children, it could lead to them being challenged for discrimination on the grounds of family status.

Twenty years ago, the civil service had the "term time" leave scheme, but this was later replaced to become the "shorter working year scheme". The former was conditional on having school age children, (or being a carer). The latter is available to all, those with children and those without.

Career breaks can be taken to pursue other interests, once there is no conflict of interest.

Never heard of anyone getting special treatment or time off to look after sick animals.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217494/child-free-benefits-in-the-workplace

It is hard to imagine any company would engage in such a disastrous PR exercise as to be caught encouraging people not having kids! When the majority of consumers have kids or want have kids, being thought of as the anti kids company would not be a smart move. And you can bet the competition would portray them as such.

DebzKer

Thanks Jim I was absolutely not suggesting any company should be anti kids. What I am asking is if anyone knows of any companies who offer similar benefits to their employees who don't have children to those employees that do have children in terms of flexibility or working arrangements, paid leave benefits etc

Mrs OBumble

I've met a good few companies that let you use (some of) your own sick leave to care for sick human dependents, of any age. Usually gets used for elderly parents

scottygee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151454#Comment_118151454

I second this motion. I don't think being childfree would mean benefits hahaha

Girl Geraldine

Do you think people who have kids do not have pets who get sick, want to have other interests or hobbies, and all the other ususal things.

The sheer arrogance of you to feel entitled to some additional perks because of not having children, especially so given that you have a much easier and more straightforward life than anyone with kids.

I say this as a childless person myself.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118156556#Comment_118156556

Never heard that. What's it called.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217494/child-free-benefits-in-the-workplace

Without being smart you already have it. It's called annual leave. Anyone who has less personal commitments has in effect more leave to use as they wish. They also have more time to work longer hours, take on more work commitments. It's a natural advantage in the workplace and in a career. It's also a natural advantage of you want more free time. Also if you have less personal financial commitments you can better afford to take unpaid leave.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217494/child-free-benefits-in-the-workplace

The whole point about being childfree by choice is to avoid the constraints that come with parental responsibilities. Therefore the childfree have more free time in which to care for pets or pursue other interests than do parents of children, so it's hard to see why they would require an allocation of leave from work for this that the parents of children don't get.

Those who are childfree by choice are, by definition, making the choice which maximises their own welfare. The notion that employers are "lagging behind" by not rewarding them for acting in their own interests is bizarre. The reward for being childfree by choice is that you are childfree. The notion that you should be given some additional reward on top of that suggests a sense of entitlement that his hard to justify.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151454#Comment_118151454

People who have children shouldn’t be treated differently but from my own experiences and that of others I’ve talked to absolutely are...

Flinty997

Statistically women do worse career and pay wise if they had kids. Men often do better because traditionally women stay at home with the kids so men often get to work longer hours at work, which results in better pay and career progression. Which of course they need because their costs have risen, and family income has dropped.

Someone with no commitments has all those advantages and none of the disadvantages.

mailforkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288184#Comment_118288184

We have something like that, Family leave, up to 5 days a year on top of holidays. Mind you, I’ve never taken any. Technically it’s for any unforeseen family event, so could be sick kid or partner, or elderly parent needing help, etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288688#Comment_118288688

Probably force majeur leave, not sure if statutory requirements, public service gives 5 days over a few years I believe.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217494/child-free-benefits-in-the-workplace

An post do this every week. only snag is the money has to be collected each week from the post office, and you have to sign on, each month in the tax office. Hours are great, money is excellent, you get a free house, medical card, literally all the time you want to pursue hobbies and look after sick animals.

davehey79

In our company employees with kids get additional vouchers for their kids whilst the childless among us whether by choice / age or any other reason don't get an equivalent amount added to staff Xmas vouchers. I've complained for years main reason being those kids don't "work" here yet we do and don't get additionally compensated ! Pre covid a party was laid on in nearby hotel for them (food/drink/sweets/Santa/toys/voucher handed out) so people with kids defo are treated differently IMO. All this for kids up to the age of 12.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288184#Comment_118288184

fraud

The Mighty Quinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288269#Comment_118288269

Can you elaborate on what you mean? Treated differently how?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288710#Comment_118288710

The reality is 5 days isn't enough leave for looking after elderly parents sick kids etc. (sick pets).

Force majeure leave

If you have a family crisis the Parental Leave Acts 1998 and 2019 give an employee a limited right to leave from work. This is known as force majeure leave. It arises where, for urgent family reasons, the immediate presence of the employee is indispensable owing to an injury or illness of a close family member.

Force majeure leave does not give any entitlement to leave following the death of a close family member.

A close family member is defined as one of the following:

A child or adopted child of the employee

The husband, wife or partner of the employee

Parent or grandparent of the employee

Brother or sister of the employee

Person to whom the employee has a duty of care (that is, he/she is acting in loco parentis)

A person in a relationship of domestic dependency with the employee

Persons of any other class (if any) as may be prescribed

The maximum amount of leave is 3 days in any 12-month period or 5 days in a 36-month period. You are entitled to be paid while you are on force majeure leave - see 'How to apply' below for more details. Your employer may grant you further leave.

You are protected against unfair dismissal for taking force majeure leave or proposing to take it.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/types_of_leave_from_work.html

mailforkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288710#Comment_118288710

Although force majeure leave is technically also available, the family leave is there to give it a kinder face. It’s meant to be for emergencies but I have mildly stretched the meaning of emergency a couple of times to ensure people without kids do get some benefit from it too.

We’re decent for benefits, also offer equal maternity and paternity leave. Alas, you do need to have a kid for that!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288770#Comment_118288770

What you're looking for is for everyone to be treated equally. Everyone gets the same thing regardless.

So if someone gets a day off for some reason, say their pet died. You also should have a day off, regardless if you have the same reason or not.

That may be equal but its not equity.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288789#Comment_118288789

Nope, it's just called sick leave.

Some companies say it can be used for a sick dependent, others say that your sick leave can only becused for you.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217494/child-free-benefits-in-the-workplace

What about those who are animal free? They should get extra perks too so :)

123Dublin456

There should be leave, unpaid, similar you parental leave for people who don't avail of parental leave. Why should parents have more freedom to go on unpaid leave than people without kids? People here act as if this is discrimination to allow people without kids options such as unpaid leave which people who have kids already have, 26 weeks per child in fact. I believe for things to be equal, the leave could be capped as personal leave and could be given to people for the first child or allowed to use for their own ventures. People have this idea that its selfish to not have kids and yet the people with the kids are allowed a huge amount more flexibility than those without them . Yes they may need it more for childcare but it is is also used for holidays etc. This could be a huge selling point in a company however the loophole would be how do you allow this to be used by all equally , probably it could be given as an option to all people but could overlap with parental leave for people with kids so they either use it as additional unpaid leave.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289251#Comment_118289251

There is unpaid leave

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289251#Comment_118289251

The idea pf parental leave is people will not be penalized or lose their job if they have to take unpaid leave due to family commitment's.

There is also unpaid leave. What you want is more unpaid leave, not because you need it, but you don't see the disadvantage. You only see the number of leave days.

That's not to say it can't be miss-used. But seeing that as the primary issue, is a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Flinty997

Since this is the childfree by choice forum. You've already decided its an advantage to be childfree.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288873#Comment_118288873

Given preferential shifts or choice of preferential shift.... even if seniority level was below others OR others were already doing a particular shift...which had always been the metric for awarding leave, shifts etc...done to suit them collecting children from school or just caving to any whim because ‘ ahhh but they have kids ‘

time off to accompany child to ‘scheduled’ healthcare appointments that didn’t impact or get debited from holiday allowances. force majeure leave or just on the QT..in some situations...

anybody else without kids looking for similar favors was never accommodated.... I asked why employees who coincidentally had procreated were being enabled with preferential treatment and I got told...” we need to be seen as a family friendly organization “.... which is great as long as they get noted for being an ‘everybody else unfriendly organization ‘... ? :)

I’ve never know any company offer benefits to child free employees.

parental leave ? That’s simply discriminatory, paid or unpaid.

there is always preferential treatment given to parents, usually in an unofficial way.

I work shifts, in the public sector. When it comes to the likes of holidays, christmas etc, its always parents who get first choice of leave, or maybe even given a few free hours, when it suits them.

I was told once by a superior that he likes to look after the lads with families as much as he can at christmas.

He just couldnt understand when i explained to him that I have family too 🙄

Strumms

That’s the issue, they see family as John/Sarah with wife/husband and two kids...ohh yay.... nothing about a person with elderly relatives who it could even be their last Christmas together or one of them, that couldn’t count for anything...

i could have just been unlucky with employers but no benefit to non parents in any of my workplaces... in fact you were penalized for colleagues have kids.

Flinty997

Seems like those people with commitments are more vocal because they have scheduling conflicts more often that if not facilitate will cause them to miss work. People want them to work, so facilitate them.

So if people don't know you have commitments, either you haven't spoken up, or you actually don't have them. So they feel don't need to facilitate you. Perhaps you might just not get on with your line manager, or supervisor. That can happen also.

I find that most places that flexible will accommodate everyone , someone with a sick partner or what ever. Its not limited to those with families. if they don't it probably a dysfunctional organization, or manager or supervisor.

Apologies if I'm wrong. But the OP basically wanted extra leave.

magicbastarder

you get many of these benefits 'in case'.

leave in case you're sick.

leave in case a parent dies.

leave in case you have a kid.

speaking as someone who has no kids, i feel in no way discriminated against for not having parental leave. and i welcome increased provision for parental leave too.

123Dublin456

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with people with or without kids having access to personal leave, if people like the ones who don't mind not getting it don't wish to use it, then thats fine, but for the ones who do and who don't have kids I think it isn't fair to see people around you being given more access to unpaid leave. There is already children's benefit, maternity leave, unpaid maternity leave and paternity leave before any of this extra leave is accounted for. People as far as I know still also get their holiday days added onto it. I don't think parents should get less, I think people without kids should get the same access to it and if they don't want to use it then I don't see how it would harm anyone. At the end of the day it makes no difference to your business whether you actually have kids or not so why should access to leave differ.

notAMember

I've seen health and fitness benefits that a lot of parents can't avail of, without babysitters or at certain ages of kids, does that count?

In my company, if we can provide receipts and proof of x number of attendances per month, then gym membership or exercise class membership can be partially reimbursed.

Other ones like discounts on tickets to gigs or cinema.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291385#Comment_118291385

A parent can go to the gym... so they can avail of it... Wednesday even, John looks after the kids, Julie is off to the gym and visa versa on Thursday...

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291412#Comment_118291412

Yes, that will be true for absolutely everything suggested. If it's not a single parent, or a babysitter is available, or they can both breastfeed, and they have the interest and inclination and are not exhausted, then the benefit can be availed of. Not sure whether you fall into pedantic pat or captain bleeding obvious territory....

However, my experience as a manager in a large corporate environment is that parents with children of certain age are less able to avail of benefits like these.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291478#Comment_118291478

Well I fall into the territory of being at least mature enough not to be calling other posters names or throwing my toys out of the pram because somebody has an opinion that differs to mine. :)

less able to avail of benefits because of choices THEY made... that shouldn’t be on anybody else....

i was flexible for a number of years and indeed sympathetic as regards the ‘parents’ such was the culture but the sense of absolute entitlement that brought and their outright resistance to doing anything for anyone else or having the slightest sympathy for any situation a non parent colleague might be going through be it personal, health, socially where a dig out occasionally could have been forthcoming once in a blue moon... nope the IGK brigade sure like everything stacked in their corner...

Flinty997

Well similarly the CFbC brigade are less able to avail of these benefits because the choices they made.

Same thing.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291333#Comment_118291333

Basically you're treating all leave the same as annual leave.

You've just confirmed you don't need it for any compassionate grounds. You just want more holidays.

123Dublin456

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291651#Comment_118291651

No holidays are paid

Unpaid leave is what I'm talking about.

I think employers in the back of their minds do put into consideration if an employee says they've got children when looking for annual leave for Christmas or anything. There is a type of expectancy if you don't have children then you've no problem staying longer than you're rostered time

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293683#Comment_118293683

You list all types of leave and unpaid, so you're talking about both. The OP who stated this thread said...

offer any paid time off .....paid leave benefits etc

Ignoring all that, if you want lots of unpaid leave you can just negotiate it with your employer.

Flinty997

How about Exam or Study leave. Why should those not doing exams also be entitled to get those days as leave also.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291616#Comment_118291616

Hardly , there should be zero room to avail of preferential treatment by virtue of you having children... or ...you are a lone parent, ohhh well, should not become anyone else’s problem...as someone having kids became ‘not my problem’ took some heel digging and a couple of noses out of joint but fûck em... :) it should be a level playing field.

Flinty997

I don't follow what you trying to say.

If you want a level playing then all the advantages of being childless should also be removed.

In fact all benefits should be removed if not every one uses them. For example if someone doesn't take sick leave. No one should get it. Flexi time, the list is endless.

What you're advocating is a return to victorian working conditions. Because if you can't have something no one should have it.

JimmyVik

I went on a 4 day week. It was refused at first but I asked why women with kids got to go on a 4 day week but I was outright refused, as were any males who tried to do it before. All of a sudden I was allowed to do a 4 day week.

So its worth making the comparison to them if you feel you are being denied something on unfair grounds.

Flinty997

I did the same requested a 4 day week but starting in a new job. Wanted the 5th day for my own projects. No longer in that job but where I am now I can request a shorter week. Its not done on the basis of having kids. About half the people who take it in my place don't have any kids under 18. Though it obviously has repercussion's for various things like your pension.