Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

sk8board

just 1,200 listings on daft this morning - I strongly suspect there’s a lot of places that are renting off-market with agents who have a list of pre approved tenants.

I'm expecting another Daft price increase any day now - hard to make money with such low volume of both sales and rentals

redarmyblues

Looking at the recent ads on daft for rentals where I am, I notice that the vast majority were asking for rent in 50e increments , 1350 and 1400 etc. Now you would expect any asking price that has been put through the RPZ wringer to be priced in 1e increments 1353 and 1405 etc. in an rental economy where LLs are more or less obliged to maximise returns.

Some LLs maybe ignoring RPZ rules but most are smart enough to know the RTB can and will come after them for this so it appears that in many or if not most cases LLs are not reletting after an existing tenancy ends.

Saudades

That sounds like a possible case of the landlord chancing their arm and rounding up to the next 50 increment - possibly under the assumption that the increase is too small for the RTB to bother chasing.

Although of course it does all add up over the years. Any new tenant should certainly find out how much the previous rent was. Even a tenner a month adds up over time.

Pawwed Rig

Is a tenant really going to argue with their landlord over 10euro a month given how hard it is to find a property?

OU812

It’s very telling how a minority of tenants are very vocal about “greedy landlords” etc. if it bothered them that much, they should have bought their own property to live in.

Many people in this country have been able to buy a home through sacrifice (not going out, no latest games console, old phone, not smoking etc) and did it themselves. No HAP, no RA, no handouts from the state or family.

Just hard work. It’s totally doable, everyone today wants everything immediately and wants others to pay for it.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405006#Comment_118405006

To be fair, there will always be a need for social housing as there will be some people who cant provide for themselves. Also to be fair, property prices (especially in our cities) are making affordability for hard working people (guards, nurses, teachers etc.) a real problem.

That said, the current trend of populist politics and lazy journalism is blaming property problems on "greedy landlords" and "vulture funds" etc.. The real issue is we haven't been building enough residential property and are still not building enough. Any policy that doesnt create more supply (RPZs etc), only makes more problems.

We cant have super premium building regulations and bureaucratic planning processes and at the same time expect lots of affordable accommodation to pop out of the ground. The best way to stop those greedy landlords expecting rent increases, is to have a large number of alternative properties for people to move to if they dont like the price.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404674#Comment_118404674

I recently had a place on HAP that I renewed the lease after 5 or 6 years - the rent calculator said €x,x43 and I submitted it as €x,x50 and it was approved no problem, probably because it’s miles below market rates still. I only rounded up as the odd numbers are more of a pain for annual tax returns.

bear in mind the administration cost of ‘chasing people’ is akin to the cost to the Revenue of a personal tax audit

in decades as a LL I’ve never been audited for my receipts once, nor ever heard of any other LL ever audited either. I’ve everything in order and legit, but I’m doing a bunch of rentals for many years now, so I half expected an audit by now - the bar must be set pretty high

Tow

We were audited once, young lad came went through the books in the dinning room. No problems at all.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405006#Comment_118405006

So this is the classic attitude. What do say to people who have worked hard and saved and still can't get a house?

Or low income workers who work every hour they can and still struggle?

If you can't see the bigger issue of social inequality and failure of government to protect people it's more so about your mindset, then what's happening in reality.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406753#Comment_118406753

I say “we had no help either when buying a house, we had to do it all ourselves, and didn’t expect anyone to help us”.

OU812

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406753#Comment_118406753

What do I say?

Do what countless others did before you and move to where you can afford a mortgage. You don’t have to live around the corner from your nanny.

Low income workers need to get a better paid job. Educate yourself and improve your circumstances.

It’s not the government’s responsibility to provide you with the lifestyle you want.

They have failed in their building strategy, but they have also failed in policing the existing stock that’s there. A socially provided home should be subject to the needs of the tenant and should only be for a limited tenancy - no more “forever” homes. And as for the refusal of social housing? Screw that. Refuse once and you go back to the bottom of the list.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406788#Comment_118406788

So you just ignore income levels have not increased and the cost of everything goes up? And you don't think two adults working should be able to afford a place to love?

I'm guessing you haven't listened to the news of this generation still living at home struggling to get a deposit together? Or the rise of homelessness in this country? Nice rock your living under

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407192#Comment_118407192

There is no entitlement to be able to buy a place to love.

I’m in my 50’s, I had to rent for a few years, bought what I could afford, where I could afford. That has not changed.

The one thing that has changed is lending rules, with good reason.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407223#Comment_118407223

I don't really know where your attitude coming from. "This generation buys coffee and wanna live in mansions" seems to be common among older generations.

If you can't acknowledge thing might be different then when you were your younger it shows a lack of empathy and connection to reality.

But hey your alright and that all that matters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407274#Comment_118407274

Lack of empathy, I have as much as the generation before me, had for me, which was very little.

Connection to reality, I realise it is difficult to by a house, probably more difficult than when I bought my first apartment, quite a long way from where I worked and would have liked to live. I suppose I disconnect when I hear people saying they should be able to buy what they want, where they want.

I’m alright because I took what I could get when I could get it, not what nor where I wanted. And finally in 2017 I got the house I wanted, where I wanted.

OU812

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407274#Comment_118407274

Things weren’t different at all.

I earned €21k a year when I bought my first house. That was €149k and was 35km away from where I wanted to live.

stayed there for a couple of years before I spotted a place that needed extensive renovations almost wheee I wanted to be,

Was just about able to afford it and spent two years doing it up room by room when I could afford to get it done.

Didn’t qualify for assistance from anyone, so didn’t ask for it. Just did what we could afford.

Expectations of a lifestyle way above your means without being able to back it up is inevitably going to lead to disappointment but expecting it to be provided by someone else is ridiculous

Pawwed Rig

When I bought my first house it was for €190k in Co Offaly in 2005. There was absolutely nothing available in Dublin at this price at that point of time. The closest were parts of Finglas up at the 230-240K mark. Leixlip, Maynooth, Kilcock and other border towns were all well above €200k for anything.

As of today there are 50+ properties available in the county of Dublin for <200k.

I would class this as fairly affordable for anyone No? It would be about €800 a month of a mortgage which is far less than what you would expect to pay in rent.

This generation are not worse off than the previous. They are just not willing to make the same sacrifices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407504#Comment_118407504

Also, going back a few years earlier than 2005, a lot more people had to emigrate to come back and buy, me included. We didn’t like it, but we weren’t expecting anyone to help us. Prior to Covid unemployment was 5%, now it is 6.9%, high employment, more people staying here and expecting to be able to buy where they want.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407504#Comment_118407504

So do you not think couples moving back in with there parent's? A scarface? For everyone involved?

Not sure if you bought the house by yourself? But thats very difficult for people now.

Why do you think there is grants/assistant now? They won't be there if the odds are not stacked against average people.

The rich get rich the poor get poorer. You mentioned emigration, if you cast you mind back to the last recession that's what happened and still goes on.

I'm not sure what goes on when you get older but seems to be the common "in my day we walked to school, this generation doesn't want to work" blah blah bs.

Noting I'm going to say will change your minds.

Pawwed Rig

It is certainly a sacrifice for their parents.

I never mentioned emigration.

Yes I bought the house myself. I worked night shifts and took every bit of overtime that was going. For this I got to live it shitsville Offaly for a number of years but it was mine and every penny I spent on it was for me and not lining a landlords pocket. Ot was a crap first rung on a housing ladder but better than renting imo.

A couple would be in a much better position than I was.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407709#Comment_118407709

The population of Ireland is now the highest since The Famine, so it is difficult to claim emigration is now a factor. You say the opinion of older generations is blah blah bs, our problems were the same as yours when it came to affordability of properties where we wanted to live. I’m not sure why you feel this is a new phenomenon. What has changed is the practicality shown by you, we looked at the situation we were in and did something about it, bought where we could afford, emigrated when we couldn’t. You want to be able to buy where you want, now.

And I don’t think you don’t want to work, employment rates show you do.

OU812

“The rich get rich the poor get poorer.”

This is the battle cry of the work-shy underachieving classes of today who demand instant gratification.

I bought my first house 22 years ago, I could barely afford it, but cut back in everything to do so.

My current house was equally unaffordable, but I furthered my education for a couple of years in my first house and had some pay rises as a result.

Every couple of months I’d get a modest pay rise or small bonus for further educating myself and being of greater benefit to my company and I’d be able to afford paint, or a carpet or something for whatever room I was working on that time.

Nothing instant. All earned.

To quote Mel Robbins:

“No one is coming to save you. No one is coming to push you. It's all up to YOU.”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407709#Comment_118407709

Why do you think there is grants/assistant now? They won't be there if the odds are not stacked against average people.

The reason there are grants = votes. The government is throwing money at a problem instead of finding a solution. The primarily obstacle in solving the housing crisis is supply of housing. Not funding buyers. If there's one house and 4 potential buyers, and no other houses on the market, the people with the most money will get the house. Give those people grants, the people that end up with the most money will still get the house. There's still going to be 3 people without a home, regardless of how much money the government supplements them. All it does is push house prices further up. The housing crisis persists.

The existence of grants isn't proof that people need more money.

As a recent-ish buyer in their 30s myself, I think this generation works very hard. In non-physical jobs I'd say on average we probably work harder than previous generations. But I would agree with other posters that rightly or wrongly, expectations/entitlements are also much higher than in previous generations.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407810#Comment_118407810

Average house price Dublin, year 2000 - €209,000

Average salary year 2000 - €36,000

Average house price Dublin, year 2022 - €406,000

Average salary. year 2022 - 49,000

Not really comparable between when you bought and now, is it?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415481#Comment_118415481

Are they average Dublin or Ireland salary. New house in 2000 was probably a Ber D at best and buyer bought it undecorated, only at builders finish with no white goods, back lawn not done.

In 2022 house is Ber A or B, completely finished and decorated. There is a huge difference in the standard of house

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415634#Comment_118415634

When I moved into my house over a decade ago we had 2 doors, a door on the toilet and a bedroom, concreate floors, no second fix carpentry, a couch and a bed. Only room that was done was the kitchen, the outside was piles of rubble and mounds of earth. That may be on the extreme side but I just don't get people mortgaging themselves to the hilt for turnkey starting out.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415634#Comment_118415634

We're talking about house prices though, not house condition. Not everyone is buying a new house, in either the year 2000 or the year 2022. I bought a house in October in 2021 and it's 100+ years old and has a BER of F. Still had to pay 2021 prices.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415481#Comment_118415481

You forgot the mortgage interest rate in 2000 was over 6% and in 2022 its just over 2%. Big difference.

And for older posters who bought in the 80's or 90's, historic interest rates were crazy, some years they were 14% and more. Monthly repayments vs net salary is what matters.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415731#Comment_118415731

There would have been a difference in the 2nd hand stock as well. Houses with timber frame single gkazed Windows and doors. Some with no central heating, New houses set the base price and everything works from there to an extent. No en suites in a lot of second hand houses etc.

OU812

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415481#Comment_118415481

I pointed out earlier in the thread, I earned considerably less than the he average salary at the time.

The percentage gap was even greater for me, so in actual fact, it’s not comparable, it was considerably harder for me to buy than it is for someone on the average salary today.

So hard in fact, that I had to move two counties away and commute, but I did it. As I said before, you don’t have to live around the corner from your family.

Buy where you can afford to live comfortably.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416238#Comment_118416238

Most important point here is above - Buy where YOU can afford.

I couldn't afford to buy in Dublin so I moved to England. I couldn't afford to rent in London so I rent in the Midlands. That's just how it goes. I work and pay my way in life, I don't have a Ferrari and probably never will. I accept that, not sure why others think they should be given things just because they want them? Weird attitude.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415481#Comment_118415481

The interest rate was higher and you also had to pay stamp duty separately from the deposit and the mortgage. All goods were top prices as was labour costs. Had to put off lots of work knowing we would have to do most of of it ourselves.

As I acted as a landlord for other properties due to family members age I have dealt with tenants personally for over 20 years. Different properties different tenant types. There are people who heavily rely on the state to survive and will never be able to work a decent job or live without state aid. They may not qualify for disability payments but they are also incapable of working in any real way. Unable to follow instructions or accept being told what to do. Worse when you see they have children and they end up the same. Totally different cultures run in parallel but that has always been the case. One tenant had a son and I watched him grow up. He was a bright young kid but I watched as he became like his family, stopped going to school around 16 with the mother saying she couldn't get him to attend. She told me how when she got up at 12pm she would find him still in bed and not gone to school. You couldn't tell her to start getting up earlier and waking him. He now is long term unemployed with very little education.

None of that is generational but part of the poverty trap of social welfare which is a culture in itself. Housing will sort itself out to an extent. Dublin is surrounded by suburbs full of OAPs and very low occupancy rates. Over the next 10 years about 50% of these OAPs will die. Housing booms of the 70-80s will leave a lot of housing stock but likely to involve houses being split as they are too big for individual buyers now. You aren't going to hear politicians say this but it is in the studies on housing they read and do understand. We have too much 3 bed semis in our housing stock but the distribution is poor.

Manion

I do have to say I find to boomer talk of pulling yourself up by your own boot straps doesn't sit any better than the talk of previous generations having it easy. I don't know of any generation that found it easy to find and afford a place to live. In the 80s and early to mid 90s you have sky high unemployment and interest rates, it was extremely hard to get a mortgage. Your ability find a place to live is often heavy influenced by Macro/System level factors you have little or no control over. When we bought in early 2016 we had been looking for a house in Dublin for 3 years, we must have viewed hundreds of properties and bid on dozens eventually we realized we actually could afford a second hand house that required renovation, or best bet was a new property and we luckily got in early into a development. A few months later an the government introduced a help to buy scheme for new houses and first time buyer which over night added 80K (Literally) to the asking price of the same houses, but we where lucky and had our price. Is not a moral failing to not be able to afford to buy the property, it's not excessive to expect to be able to afford a home in the capital on the average industrial wage.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417022#Comment_118417022

Well, fundamentally it is up to the individual to put themselves in a position to buy a house. They need to have enough savings and a decent income. Of course it isn't a moral failing, it is really up to the individual to do what they want. Someone on the average industrial wage would be able to borrow around 175k, so they would need to make up the rest in savings, it would be tough in Dublin but it is doable, you need to get started early on the savings.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417022#Comment_118417022

On your last sentence, I think maybe it is? That's just supply and demand. Average New Yorkers, Londoners, etc. can't afford homes in their cities. The same goes for a lot of capital cities, certainly compact ones like our own. (btw I can't afford to buy a house, I rent, just in case anyone thinks I'm a landlord in New York making millions)

Tow

We had a tenant like that, lived with their child until eventually The System gave them a house to their liking. The thing is both parents worked and were well know, back in the day. One of them died recently and it got coverage on RTE and the papers, listing their contributions to Irish society. As you say, it is not necessarily generational, but once it starts it is difficult to break the cycle.

I don't see the average 3 bed semi being split. In saying that I have seen it done, but there was no planning and there in lies the problem splitting a house. I am from Rathmines, classic flatland. For years large houses are being converted back into family homes. You see less and less Pre 63 houses.

Taylor365

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416343#Comment_118416343

Thats it! Genius! I'm off to Finglas or Darndale without ever stepping foot in either or knowing anything/anyone from there!

Great times ahead!

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417283#Comment_118417283

Yep, that’s what a lot of us have to do. We pay our own way in life.

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417061#Comment_118417061

Yes it's up to individuals, but we people don't have complete agency either. In the example I provided, a government intervention to benefit one set of people had a detrimental affect on another set of people. We benefitted massively, people buying basically the same home 6 months later lost out massively. A good few recent posts seem to have two fallacy 1) just because person A did something, person B should also be able to do something and 2) that Wealth equates to the intrinsic value of a person. It doesn't sit well with me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417079#Comment_118417079

I'd argue there is a significant societal cost to that level of in-equality. Where the majority of people who work in a city cannot live in the city. Also, in both examples, there exist a level of public transport that offsets the impact of living further out. We still don't have a connected city for the most part (though where I live we have fantastic connectivity).

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417553#Comment_118417553

Absolutely, there is something that feels very wrong about a city where the people who make it thrive don't get the chance to live within it, but that's the way of supply and demand. Very few of the people who build Ferraris can afford to buy and run one (to continue my metaphor from earlier)

As for transport, you're absolutely right that Dublin City has a terribly disjointed transport system. I'd even go so far as to say it's one of the worst capital European capital cities for public transport.

We probably agree on far more than we disagree, I just don't see a fairer system than a (within reason) free market where a person can sell their property/object/whatever for whatever amount they can get.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417283#Comment_118417283

Lightbulb.

OU812

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417283#Comment_118417283

That's what you do man!

You put in the groundwork, move somewhere you don't know anyone but can afford a comfortable lifestyle, people visit you & you visit them. You spend your spare money on doing your place up, then just when you've got it the way you like it, prices & your income have risen enough that you're able to move closer to where you want to be, so you do it all over again.

Taylor365

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417636#Comment_118417636

I love it.

Jimmy bricks your sitting room, you petrol bomb his kitchen. Just friendly neighbours! :pac:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417914#Comment_118417914

If you can afford to live somewhere else, you don’t have to buy. If you are waiting for someone to help you buy where you want, buy a pipe, you are in for a long wait.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417636#Comment_118417636

Took me about 20 years to get the area I wanted and will take another 5 to get the house the way I want it. I had little in the way of generational wealth though so others will be able to do that more quickly.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415481#Comment_118415481

You better check interest rates too, since you are trying to compare.

And stamp duty. now that was eye watering.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417225#Comment_118417225

The difference in 3 bed houses around Dublin is huge. You have ex corpo houses that you couldn't do that with for sure. Then there are other houses where the box room is as big as a double but they are 3 bed houses. there are 4 houses split on my road already and done within the last 10 years. This is normal development in cities as they get bigger with larger properties being split up. There are also ton of 4-5 bed roomed houses. There is a lot of space to be developed but the key thing to remember Dublin has an occupancy rate issue more then a number of properties issue. Huge portion of Dublin in the suburbs has 1 or 2 people living in 3 bed houses and it is increasing every year.

Aguce

My LL just send an email notice of rent increase of 22% when by rules he could have increased it only by 3,5%. And scratch the 3 month notice it has to be paid already next month. And I don't have much options than to pay this illeagal increase because it is still bit cheaper than other (only few) avaliable rent options. :(

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425218#Comment_118425218

On the assumption that what you say in your post is correct then of course you have options. You can say No.

If there is any repercussions then goto RTB.

Aguce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425296#Comment_118425296

And next thing I get notice that I have to leave this apartment because some of the relatives want to live here/to do renovations/sell this place and at the end I have to pay even higher rent. I don't see scenario where I can win