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Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

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    #452
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577099#Comment_118577099

    I have never said that I expect them to. I have said that they have the choice to.



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    #453
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577108#Comment_118577108

    Some may have the choice to some may not, that will be dictated by their personal circumstances and what the market forces are. Your spouting that they should own rent increases and yet you wont acknowledge that a lot of landlords are not making much from the rents given if any. You have said if the landlord cant afford the mortgage or other expenses with the way rents are they should sell and not put rents up. I say if you keep your pricing to what the market is asking you will have someone paying rent at a price point you want and which makes sense to keep your investment. No landlord is putting a gun to a tenants head to pay rent so its a choice by both parties.



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    #454
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    I fundamentally don't agree that landlords have no choice in the rents they set. They can decide to lose money on their asset. That's available to them. It will have consequences, but it's there. This shouldn't be a controversial statement.



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    #455
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    " You have said if the landlord cant afford the mortgage or other expenses with the way rents are they should sell and not put rents up"


    I don't believe I said this: I think I said that if they cannot cover the mortgage etc through the rental income then they should consider selling it. Other options are available. Like raising the rent.



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    #456
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577175#Comment_118577175

    Now your bordering on ridiculous? Would you go in and work for free or pay for the privilege? Would you expect a taxi man to spin you into town without payment or maybe you would expect them to give you a few quid when they let you out of the cab? Why should a landlord make a loss on an asset when they can make a profit, it just does not make sense. Its not a controversial statement its a ridiculous one. The only party who should and have the means to rent out property at a loss should be the state. Ask yourself one question why do you think someone would go out and buy a rental property?



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    #457
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577207#Comment_118577207

    I never said a landlord should do this. Only that they could.



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    #458
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577224#Comment_118577224

    If I could win the lotto tomorrow I would. Sorry just thought I add an absolutely random observation. You have still not answered my question. Why do you think a person would buy an investment property?



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    #459
    Ham_Sandwich
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    People don’t see the other side of the story from the landlords perspective, alot of landlords are accidental landlords and more importantly, landlords have to pay tax on their earnings, leaving them with less money than they’d like.



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    #460
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577238#Comment_118577238

    To make money I would imagine. And they'd set the rent accordingly.



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    #461
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577175#Comment_118577175
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577274#Comment_118577274

    Why were the rent pressure zones brought in ?? To stop landlords charging more than inflation. If a landlord could they would charge more than the current market rate - this is human nature to want to get the most money out of an asset that they can and conversely a tenant would want their rent as close to zero as possible. Ergo and match point on this is the current rate of rent is somewhere in between so the landlord has not set it as there is a defining upper limit to stop them making more. If landlords set the rent prices we would not need an upper limit which is imposed on landlords by RPZ which is based on the rate of inflation.


    Great so we are getting somewhere so they are in it to make money so then why would you go out of your way to make a loss?



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    #462
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577307#Comment_118577307

    Who knows. However we have in this very thread someone who is not charging the rent which would get them maximum profits. Every landlord can choose to set their tents where they wish within legal stipulations. That's been my refrain all afternoon.



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    #463
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576631#Comment_118576631
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577323#Comment_118577323

    No you said why do landlords set the price of rent on rental properties and should own it. RPZs were introduced to stop landlords upping rent even higher, ergo they don't set the price of rent its not in their control there is an upper limit as if the RPZs it were not in place rent prices would be going up even higher. You only have to look at the amount of rental stock out there its slim pickins.



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    #464
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577353#Comment_118577353

    Nothing you've quoted contradicts my point: landlords set the rent of rental properties they own.



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    #465
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    And landlords are allowed to increase rents within RPZs, right? And some choose not to?



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    #466
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577381#Comment_118577381

    Are landlords allowed to increase above the RPZs no , they were introduced to stop rental prices spiralling higher and higher, ergo landlords want higher prices RPZs were put in place to stop this ergo landlords do not have control over the amount of rent that is charged.


    If you have issue as to the reasoning of RPZs take it up with Simon Coveney


    https://www.thejournal.ie/new-rent-pressure-zones-average-rent-5080188-Apr2020/



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    #467
    jo187
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭jo187


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577247#Comment_118577247

    Keep hearing the term accidentally LL.

    They chose to rent the place out to make money. What's accidentally about that?



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    #468
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577430#Comment_118577430

    We disagree. I think that landlords are allowed increase rents within RPZs. And so landlords set the rents.



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    #469
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577432#Comment_118577432

    What happened in a lot of cases were people got caught out at the height of the boom bought a place companies were hitthing the wall left right and center we hit nearly 400k people on the dole who lost their job and in order to make ends meet they moved home or to shared accommodation and they rented out the house they bought so they had no intention of renting it out as a rental they wanted to live in it.



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    #470
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577443#Comment_118577443

    No if landlords had there way the rent would be higher today than it is even the government coped onto this and they are not really the best at coping on to thingss. This is why RPZs were introduced meaning it stopped landlords charging what they wanted.

    I provided you the link where Minister Coveney is on record stating as such



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    #471
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    So is every landlord charging the maximum allowable to them in RPZs? And if not, why not?



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    #472
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577481#Comment_118577481

    Why were RPZs introduced?



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    #473
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    To arrest out of control rent inflation? So, therefore, if landlords by nature charge the maximum they can of their tenants, are there any landlords not charging the maximum allowable?



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    #474
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,015 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577486#Comment_118577486

    For votes.



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    #475
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577507#Comment_118577507

    I dont know but I could hazard a guess there are a hell of a lot more landlords charging the maximum then not and I would also put my neck on the line and say if you asked landlords if they could charge more they would. But they have not got the right to set the price to what they want. Have you any links to stats on landlords charging or not charging the max. So you have admitted to control rent inflation meaning landlords were charging more and more and the government implemented a mechanism (RPZs) to stop landlords charging what they want. Thanks for agreeing that rent prices are not in the landlords control you went the long way around it



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    #476
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577526#Comment_118577526

    We have someone in this very thread saying that a property they are renting is not being done so to achieve maximum profits. And its rent previouslydidn't increase for many years, despite that being allowable. So there's one!


    None of this contradicts my point, that the people responsible for the prices charged to rent individual properties are the relevant landlords.



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    #477
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577555#Comment_118577555

    You just admitted RPZs were to stop rent inflation or in laymans terms to stop landlords upping the price to what they want. So RPZs have stopped landlords from setting a price they want, they can set if for lower if they want but cant set it higher than the RPZs. So they do not have overall control



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    #478
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,355 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576528#Comment_118576528

    The market is an average and the average is the market. There are outliers where some are below market and some are above. That is how averages work??



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    #479
    Taylor365
    Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Where in jaysus is the unfollow button?



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    #480
    B_S
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭B_S


    Landlords in RPZs have a ceiling. And thousands of possible rent prices underneath that ceiling that they can choose. And every day, landlords think about their circumstances, the return they'd like, and other factors, and they set the rent accordingly.


    Not sure why landlords are so resistant to acknowledging this agency they have. It's powerful!



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    #481
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭DubCount


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577486#Comment_118577486

    RPZs were supposed to be introduced as a temporary measure to curb rental inflation while supply caught up to meet demand.

    In reality, they are not temporary, and they do more to add to rental inflation than they do to curb it. In reality, attempts to increase supply have failed. We have less rental properties now than we did when RPZs were introduced. RPZs have helped a small number of sitting tenants, and that has come on the backs of new tenants entering the market or those unlucky enough to be caught out by their landlords fleeing an unfair system.

    Trying to control prices artificially is like sweeping out the tide. You can only control price with more supply. How do you stop a landlord charging more rent? Have alternative supply a tenant can move to. How can you ensure landlords fix things on time? Have alternative supply a tenant can move to.

    Rent control has never worked anywhere else in the world - why we believe Ireland is different I'll never know. It drives down standards, and fails to control prices in the end.

    I know there is a bunch of posters on here who dont believe in "the market". If you have 20 people looking to buy 10 items, there is pressure on prices to rise. If you have 5 people looking to buy 10 items, there is pressure on prices to fall. Thats all the market is. No amount of artificial price control changes things. Eventually, the only answer is more supply. Maybe thats the government providing more direct social housing. Maybe thats incentives for landlords. Maybe thats encouraging more build2let. Its not price control.



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