Kieran Creaven at it again..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270630#Comment_118270630

You've never read 1984 I see.

Thinking about commiting a crime is not acually a crime. If it was, there'd be one hell of a backlog in the courts (assuming you could actually find a way of prosecuting).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270671#Comment_118270671

It’s an exploitative relationship whatever way you look at it -the way he spoke about the place he wasn’t there purely for the scenery and sunshine - as for paying prostitutes, I’d doubt he was asking to see their DOB and drivers licence - main point being, eyebrows are certainly raised when single men In their 40s go travelling on their own to these countries- it was reported on RTÉ that colleagues thought it strange that Kieran Creavan went travelling on his own to a number of Asian countries including The Philippines and Thailand considering he was married- so I’m not the only person in the world who would raise an eyebrow when they hear that.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1264744/

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271089#Comment_118271089

Irrelevant. There is no comparison between a consensual adult transaction and the abuse of children. Children by definition cannot consent to a sexual encounter.

What was his wife doing during all these trips? She only dumped him after he was caught.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271104#Comment_118271104

I think you’re stretching the boundaries of believability by saying paying a prostitute in Thailand is “a consensual adult transaction” 😂😂😂

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271134#Comment_118271134

The girls and guys leave their villages and know exactly what kind of work they are getting into. It may not be the type of work they necessarily want (or type of work you approve of) but it is still (in most cases) their choice to do it. The alternative is staying in their village in poverty. Not a great choice but still a choice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271198#Comment_118271198

Im saddened to think that you believe prostitution is a valid and reasonable “choice” for people in poverty and that the resultant “transaction” is consensual.

some estimates put 40% of all prostitutes in Thailand as minors, many of them trafficked- so even if you did come across an adult, it’s likely they were once a child prostitute

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271380#Comment_118271380

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271380#Comment_118271380

The world is a **** place in parts. Not much I can do about it. Unfortunately in other places people do not have the range of options that we have in Ireland.

vriesmays

How did the Garda think they'd locate that child in the Philippines when its population is over 100 million.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271756#Comment_118271756

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1203/1264668-kieran-creaven-courts/

They're putting more resources into finding the Irish kids. The Phillipino girl was between 10 and 12 at the time, so would be 17-19 now so pretty much an adult legally anyway. Best they could do would be forward the info to the Philippines and let them handle it.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271198#Comment_118271198

Bloody hell!! Is this the attitude we have from years of sex tourism?? "they'd be f$cked with poverty otherwise so bring on the village girls and boys for the rich white fat men to f...." 😟

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118272025#Comment_118272025

What other options do these girls have? You could save 1 of these girls from prostitution by sending her €100 per month. We all could. But we don't. They have limited options in their lives

Munstergirl854

I think its utterly depressing that men who have these urges can go online and initiate contact with women in poor underdeveloped countries who will literally sell their children to be abused for money....

Seems to be a big problem in the Philippines but maybe that's a debate for another day.

Did anyone catch rte news last night where they showed censored images of child porn pics as the guard was scrolling on the computer...I was shocked they showed it as you could make some pose out...

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118272336#Comment_118272336

Love the way it's always what options do the sexual abused have through poverty, addiction or mental health issues when it's really a question of what options the groomers, sex tourists and traffickers have Pawwed Rig.

They have lots of options.

archer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118273044#Comment_118273044

Yes the Philippines does seem to pop up quite a lot despite the penalties for that crime there being draconian compared to say Ireland, but it's got a very large population of 110 million about a third of which live in poverty.

Another factor may be that its an english speaking country.

And also the fact that while the Philippine Police are efficient and ruthless when alerted to a crime, they however have little in the way of resources to monitor the internet.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118273832#Comment_118273832

Depends on what your basic assumption is. You seem to conflate all prostitution with sexual abuse whereas others would support the rights of women and men to make their own decisions about their own bodies regardless as to whether those decisions are in line with your own moral compass. No one is arguing that under age prostitution is not abusive. Nor is anyone arguing that some of age prostitution is not abusive. The question is how much John_Rambo.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118273832#Comment_118273832

is this another version of "don't 'victim blame', just tell the rapist not to rape" because we know that works

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275702#Comment_118275702

But you said they've no choice.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275956#Comment_118275956

Eh no I didn't

What is happening (and this happens on boards a lot) is that you are projecting your own moral code onto the actions of others. You need to recognise the privileged position you are in that allows you to gold these views.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276054#Comment_118276054

I guess your right.

I just couldn't bring myself to have sex with someone when I truly know they don't really want to have sex with me. But "have to".

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270193#Comment_118270193

Effectively he will be in confinement

That cnut that raped those 2 children in athlone a few years ago is minded like a porcelain doll in prison. Only certain guards are allowed near him and when he's in the hall that section is closed that other staff and prisoners aren't allowed near him.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276539#Comment_118276539

I'd want to kill myself after a few years of that.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276832#Comment_118276832

There's many more that would happily assist him. A vile vile creature he is.

nj27

He will go on to reoffend upon release, he should be dashed upon the rocks. This kind of thing is why we should have an occasional death penalty case.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276852#Comment_118276852

Meh... let him suffer a bit

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276539#Comment_118276539

Yeah I think I remember that case, didn't he get a bit of a hiding before the Guards arrived?

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277044#Comment_118277044

No. Because I know the guy that caught him. Bit of a tosser but would have killed him if they knew the exact details of what he did to those 2 young children.

The guys that came upon him weren't exactly sure what was going on, but knew they had to hold him for the Gardaí.

The Mighty Quinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270630#Comment_118270630

Undeniably so. I feel genuine pity for those people who are paedophiles who've never acted on the urges or impulses. For those on thread who don't seem to understand, it's a sexual preference not somebody who's committed a sexual crime. I've no doubt there are thousands of people in Ireland who have those attractions who have never done anything untoward, what an awful awful situation that must be.

To be crystal clear, I feel ZERO sympathy and nothing but disgust to those who DO act on those impulses.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong user who'd quoted the poster who'd originally said the above. Point still stands.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277148#Comment_118277148

Good point and one that is rarely mentioned. I would guess that just because you have that sexual preference does not mean that you lack empathy. IMO guys Creaven are sociopaths along with being a paedophile. Someone could have that attraction but be unable emotionally to inflict that physical damage onto a child. Must be a constant torment and it's not as if you could confide it with anyone.

I would guess figures are not really available as it is not something anyone would admit to.

The Mighty Quinn

Yeah even writing a post about it here is probably viewed with suspicion. It's not talked about even though it must be a very real part of our society. Nevertheless I feel I must state that I am fortunate enough not to be in that position, and don't know of anybody who openly is, as you said it's not something anybody would admit to. In all likelihood I do know somebody in that situation who I just don't know that that's how they feel. The fear must be immense, not something anybody could admit to, even to closest friends or family. To be honest, I don't know how I'd react if a close friend told me that's how they felt. I'd like to think I'd accept that they can't help it etc etc, but it's one of the last taboos. I think Louis Theroux did a documentary some years back on it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277261#Comment_118277261

Would depend on whether said friend was a parent or worked with kids or not for me.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277148#Comment_118277148

Do you really believe those who don't act out on their urges in real life also don't look for images and videos of it on the dark web to get themselves off?

Well thats what I believe they do and behind every image and vidoe is a real victim.

Calling it a sexual preference is a bit of a strange one.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277276#Comment_118277276

The question is does it matter if they work with kids if they never let it affect their job?

That said of course I would not be inclined to leave my kids alone with them

The Mighty Quinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277293#Comment_118277293

I have to believe that, yes. I can't believe the country is awash with people searching for illicit images of children. There's got to be people who are aware of their sexual attractions, know the morality of it, do their all not to succumb to it. There must be people with a strong moral compass who are unfortunate enough to be paedophiles.

Also I'm no fool and I'm sure there are many people who've never acted on impulses in real life who do indeed get off on what they can find online, and I'm in total agreement with you that behind every image and video is a victim, of course there is. I'm not excusing or condoning it in any fashion.

I'm sorry if my wording is wrong, sexual preference? What would you call it? Sexual attraction maybe?

Heterosexual. ADJECTIVE

1. (of a person) sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.

paedophile

[ˈpiːdə(ʊ)fʌɪl]

NOUN

1. a person who is sexually attracted to children.

Should the terminology be changed? To I dunno, paedosexual?? Which it shouldn't be of course because it links sexuality to children and all the connotations are just wrong. Just happens that the impact of the word paedophile automatically is presumptuous of guilt of wrongdoing I think.

EDIT:

Also, absolutely if it was confided to me by somebody about their sexual attraction to minors, you can be damn sure I won't be leaving my children in their care, regardless of how well I know the person.

Galwayguy35

There was a programme on C4 a few months ago about the activity of paedophiles online and they said even with a whole department who's sole job it is to track these guys its still only the tip of the iceberg and that means a lot of them will never be caught.

While a lot of them were accessing the dark web a lot more were targeting children on apps that are aimed for young people and if its going on there you can be sure its the same here where the Gardai don't have the resources the UK cops have.

You're probably right in saying that some of them would never act on it or look for it on the web but unfortunately from watching that programme it seems most of them do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277186#Comment_118277186

There’s a documentary on YouTube I think that does interview people who are attracted to kids but haven’t actively done anything to harm them where they talk about what it’s like to be that kind of person and the challenges they face. I think while valuable it would be very difficult to ask people to have an open mind towards someone who does find kids attractive, the more information we can learn from them the better supports that can be offered to offenders or people with the potential to offend so they don’t.

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276539#Comment_118276539

Really?

I thought they all still went to Arbour Hill which is predominantly male sex offenders?

Very little trouble i was told by an officer (while doing a job there) 25 years ago, as any prisoner's biggest fear is being moved out to a mainstream prison.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279586#Comment_118279586

He may very well be there now Andrea. I was speaking to a chap that works as a prison guard in Castlerea. It was while there that this was the practice. He was in Portlaoise and Castlerea this of course was possibly pre trial

He was only released from Castlerea 3 days before this.

Its hard as a human being let alone a parent to read this article and not be enraged

But it's only the tip of the iceberg. This Creaven scumbag is no better. He might have had a better job but he's every bit as bad

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-who-raped-girls-in-athlone-gets-two-life-sentences-1.1711509

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277300#Comment_118277300

No, but I'd find it a little easier to sleep at night if they didn't.

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279920#Comment_118279920

Yip, ftom some reading there, seems they are sending them elsewhere now as well.

The Black Oil

I was aware of coverage of him previously. I found, however, the articles in recent days detailing his actions utterly stomach churning. It's unimaginable what this does to the poor kids.

JJKC

The reason people hate those Pedo Hunter groups is that they are the same kind of "far right" people who support Gemma O'Doherty & Justin Barrett

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283902#Comment_118283902

Ultimately, and the fact that there is the law and due course. I'm not on bookface but I recall there being a "sting" that I seen. One of the few. Ultimately they "caught" someone that's well known I the town, not for being a pedophile, but for being mentally retarded.

The whole thing felt off. Something about Anto and deco baiting someone that's got significant mental impairment doesn't feel right. That's not to say someone of diminished mentally capacity isn't a danger to others, but there's due course and a right way tondo things.

JJKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118284225#Comment_118284225

Yeah I recall something about them catching a 20 something yo autistic lad that was meeting up with a 14yo girl but the thing was that he only wanted to meet her to talk about Pokémon, nothing sexual whatsoever but he was an easy target.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118284371#Comment_118284371

This case I'm referring to was elderly man in athlone. Not quite as simple as your example but none the less, it didn't feel right.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't drive him into the ground if he were actually interfering with my child but, there's a reason why we have laws and courts

I don't doubt the intention of these people are good bit it doesn't make it necessarily right

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118284225#Comment_118284225

The vast majority of men these vigilante groups catch seem to be either isolated loners living on benefits or people with learning difficulties or on the autism spectrum.

Creaven was very much out of the ordinary in being middle class, well educated, well travelled, with a high profile job etc (I guess the argument would be that someone with even a modicum of intelligence wouldn't be stupid enough to be entrapped in a sting by a bunch of semi literate yobs and chavs). It's debatable whether these guys are doing any good for society whatsoever.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285110#Comment_118285110

But they caught Creavan

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285156#Comment_118285156

They did indeed but I'd say they simply got lucky. The vast majority of men they catch seem to be very isolated types, not very intelligent, often on benefits for years etc. Creaven was completely out of the ordinary - it was good that he was caught and jailed, but his high profile was very unusual for these type of groups. The vigilantes themselves are usually from run down areas or rough housing estates, as can be seen in any documentary about them.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285406#Comment_118285406

And is it not good that they caught the isolated, unintelligent types aswell. They generally have a trail of correspondence between the "child" and the "nonce" that demonstrates that they sent explicit pics and engaged in inappropriate chat after they knew the age of the "child". There shouldn't be an opening for these groups as the Police should be filling it. The fact that there is an opening shows that they are needed.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286246#Comment_118286246

It's debatable how much the isolated loner / misfit types pose to children or to society. Perhaps the only people who will even engage with these individuals on social media or give them the time of day are the vigilantes themselves? Therefore the groups are 'preventing' crimes that were probably never even going to happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286845#Comment_118286845

I mean just by virtue of having a conversation with a minor as an adult - and specifically one of a sexual nature is a crime. It doesn’t matter if it’s “fantasy” if you tell someone you even THINK is under 18 that you will/want to/wish to/whatever do something sexually with them you have committed a crime.

you don’t ever have to meet them you just have to say it.