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Would you support the idea of Irish Law Enforcement carrying more coercive weapons?

  • 01-11-2021 11:31am
    #1
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    According to our historical ethos this would be a huge "no-no".

    But let's not forget there isn't a developed continental city or country that DOESN'T ensure law enforcement can adequately defend themselves and enforce accordingly.

    It appears quite obvious at this point that regular patrol officers simply don't want the bother of having to confront potentially violent offenders and opt instead to go for lower hanging fruit, easy arrests etc.

    Quite simply cause, who needs the hassle?

    We're all human, who wants to get involved in an ass kicking contest with only one leg?

    Two patrol officers vs an angry mob?

    I might be inclined to "moon walk" on out of there myself, "nothing I can do" type of situation, whilst the locality has to bear the anguish of wanton law breakers.

    The law enforcement commissioner of Amsterdam unquestionably phrased this situation optimally, "carrots and sticks";

    Ireland has all the carrots, all the incentives, course opportunities, opportunities for self advancement, it must be said Simon Harris is playing a stormer on the higher education front with increases in funding opportunities and as of yesterday I believe commitment to initiation of another technical institute in the North West.

    It's the sticks we lack, the disciplinary measures for wanton indulgence in degenerative behaviour.

    This doesn't mean we have to turn into a police state, I mean look at Amsterdam?

    Place is like Disney Land for college students, but it's law enforcement protocols are second to none.

    Increase in disciplinary potential of Irish law enforcement would be a welcome modernization of an aging system struggling to keep pace with it's rapid growth.


    PS - this should have been a poll-oriented thread but that option isn't available currently it seems?



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Comments

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭ XsApollo


    I dunno if this is already in place.

    Im not sure on every Garda carrying 24/7.

    definitley should be more armed 24/7 officers that could be called on by other gardai.

    or maybe every garda car should have a compartment with weapons that could be opened when deemed necessary.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭ Parachutes


    They should expand the armed response unit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,406 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭ Fandymo


    There was no mention of guns in the OP. Tasers, pepper spray, extendable batons should be available to all officers, and they shouldn't be worried about using them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭ BronsonTB


    Not unless they are properly trained. Maybe increase the armed units for a better nationwide coverage.

    Also maybe tasers for most officers (Provided they agree to regulary using them on the anti social element)

    BTB - Be sure to hit the 'Thanks' button please.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think the opening statement is what you'd call, "intuitively obvious".

    "Here lads, go nuts!!"

    Yeah, I know Drew Harris isn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier but we'll give him some credit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,406 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    The number of people who have been killed with Tasers is astonishing. They should be classed as a lethal weapon but are used as a punsiment device by law inforcement instead of a physical beating. A police officer can face assault charges for physically assaulting a suspect, but if they stand there, repeatedly pulling the trigger/pressing the button, to administer agonizing, muscle tearing shocks, that's OK - and so they do, which has lead to deaths.

    Have a good read.

    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/media/publications/taser_law_enforcement_warnings_2010.pdf

    Why not ask is it ok for the Guards to fire darts into people's eyes, Grab a muscle and give a hard pull so the tendon rips off the bone. Punches them so the fall and hit their head on a curb and die. Rambos!

    As for pepper spray, people have lost eyes.

    Just no.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah move out of the sticks, get a taste of the reality of urban life..... couple weeks and the likes of yourself would probably endorse the use of nukes on select areas.

    A gang of scrotes put through the windows of your house, steal or damage your vehicle, maybe just beat your brains in and leave you for dead, or hey the colorful one we all saw recently - soccer kick your dog until he has internal hemorrhaging so bad he suffocates in his own blood.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭ Fandymo


    People die driving every day too. If you are acting like scum, you'll be treated like scum. If death may be a side product of that then the amount of scummery might subside. I've also seen the damage bean bag guns can do, i'd arm them with those too.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Unquestionably that is a problem.

    But it is one problem among many, and "on the beat" enforcement requires some serious intervention and improvement also.

    There's a scumbag ethos which has not been held to account for faaaar too long, and it's only live police work that will affect change therein.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    I have thought for years the Gardai need to have about 50/50 divide armed... Then after a number of years giving out speed tickets and chasing joy riders if an officer wants to be a real police officer they can be armed and do real police work.. I have had several conversations with this over the years...

    If a police wants to command respect it needs to be actively deal with people with firepower... now it is not but will call in a response unit after the event...



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,791 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    I’d make tasers mandatory for every Garda.

    apart from cost there is no reason for them not to have them.

    between 2015 and 2020 they were only used 125 times. About 25 times a year, so a taser nationwide is deployed once every 2 weeks approximately but there when needed. Protection and deterrent.

    there needs to be more protection for Gardai and for decent citizens from these increasing numbers of little feral dirtbags that inhabit and are causing problems in this country...seems like close to a generation of parents didn’t exactly bother their bollocks too hard parenting.





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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just saw you edited this post, lol.

    Sneaky sneaky.

    Did you just insinuate I was "scared of the bad guys"?

    Yeah, real mature.

    My main concern is I'll hit some scrote so hard I'll be convicted of manslaughter.

    Then the next thread on this sub will be you complaining about me, "powerlifter and former amateur boxing champion stomps out scrote at BlueBell Luas stop - where were the police? We live in a lawless society, I can't raise my daughter".

    I'd rather the people who get paid to manage the scrote/scumbag subculture did there job so the rest of society doesn't have to go "mob justice" like in "You me and Marley".



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    That post makes no sense to me... what are you trying to say...



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ Stephenc66


    The OP refers to our continental neighbours not the US. I believe that you are the first person to bring the US into the discussion.

    Yes I believe that the Guards should be better equipped to defend themselves. And that following the lead of our European neighbours should be allowed take much harsher action to deal with anti social behaviour.

    I have witnessed this once in Bialystok Poland and a number of times in the Algarve swift decisive effective action.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,683 ✭✭✭✭ Witcher




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭ mikethecop


    peoples idea of policing in Ireland is stupidly skewed by silly tv shows an long established teenage anti authority figures mentality

    reality is that Gardai are extremely vulnerable on and off duty, unarmed men and women confronting violent crime with no political support, no media support, no management support as well as multiple agency's with increasingly oppressive oversight and no experience or knowledge of policing in Ireland

    Firearms are being withdrawn from detectives across the country in favour of ASU spread sparely across the county( ie a hour or more away from many places) outside dublin and limited units in city's.

    As for people saying they knew what they were getting into and should expect to be assaulted and threatened with no recourse ? ?

    did you know what you work life was when you started out ? if you do you have a very boring life , and young gardai are realizing how little they are valued by the state and public and are leaving in large numbers.

    If you want effective policing in Ireland to tackle crime and criminals you need to resource it properly not just photo ops and media sound bites for the politicians.

    The days of little johnny getting caught doing some thing silly and getting a talking to and dropped home or a Garda doing you a favor such as helping with non policing issues are over due to political interference

    As for more tools ,? A baton is only as effective as the person swinging it . meant to be retrained every two years ( pushed out to about 5 now ) Some times pepper spray doesn't work , Highly intoxicated people, people with mental health issues , some times tazer doesn't work , layers of clothing environmental conditions ie if the person is soaking wet or danger of fire , some times firearms are more dangerous than helpful. Properly trained and equipped with the relevant tool is the only way. Lock boxes with those in district patrol cars works in many other country. but will never happen here due to cost of training





  • I can't really agree with this. Look at European countries where the police are armed, and there isn't any real reduction in crime, and if anything, the amount of violent crime tends to be higher. If you've spent any amount of time in Mainland Spain, and have ever had an encounter with any branch of their police, it's not a nice experience.

    The answer to Irish crime is not to arm our Gardai. The answer is proper sentencing and a solid foundation towards reform. Not the mealy mouthy approach that tends to happen now, but real sentencing that provides a reason for people not to commit crimes, for fear of what they might face when caught.

    I think more people need to spend time abroad, and realise that Irish crime is rather... tame, in comparison to other countries.. and I'd say a large part of that is due to our police not being armed like the are in other countries.

    Gardai should be supported by armed officers. Oh, I also agree with the resistance to tasers being used. I've known a few people who were hit by them for minor offenses, that should have resulted in a few harsh words from the cops. If police have the use of such weapons, they'll be used more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius


    You are talking as though gardai are throwing themselves into rooms of gunfire with nothing but a high viz jacket and a breakfast roll. What do you think the armed support units are there for? And on top of that, they never confront armed criminals head on, but rather wait until they can catch them off guard via house raids etc.

    How many times have we seen in the news where the gards raid warehouses seizing millions in drugs when the warehouses were empty or only made 2 or 3 arrests. The gardai will choose their battles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭ mikethecop


    point proven re the understanding of policing ..... sigh

    on average one gardai is assaulted every day.

    As i already said ASU are few and far between , much more so out side of dublin and are a Support not responce unit, they do not take calls in general

    house raids are done the way they are in order to catch criminals when they dont expect it thats the whole idea of doing it like that . world wide . you dont understand that ?

    next time you read about a large seizure read the whole article and see if it is linked to a traffic stop or some other low key event which is as a result of front line unarmed uniform policing. its usually that or intelligence either human source or electronic



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius


    I said support, you said response. I said nothing about house raids that was wrong, so where's the misunderstanding?

    I know all too well of the tactics gardai use - with 3 home invasions within 1 kilometer of my house and for each it took over an hour for a squad car to respond. Fat chance we'll see gardai throwing themselves into a room of gunfire anytime soon.



This discussion has been closed.
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