Right of way for walkway beside the house

Project2021

Hi,

I’m the owner of the semidetached house in estate I have walkway beside my house with belongs to me and provide access for my neighbor to bring his bins out . I like to close that walkway and be able to use my garden to full of its potential. The people next door says that they have rights of way and they break my gate. I check with my solicitor there is no rights of way written in my property folio. My solicitor said that they may have rights because it’s looking like walkway and it’s proposes to be walkway and that I need Barrister advice?

mickdw

More detail please.

Was this an arrangement you just created or was it there before you moved in?

Does the walkway allow access to anything else?

Does neighbour not have side gate of their own?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058215864/right-of-way-for-walkway-beside-the-house

What's your question?

Why are you not listening to your solicitor?

No one here can give you legal advice.

Project2021

So estate is designed that way that the house on right side has walkway it doesn’t state anywhere what is spouse to be used for, just presume.Developer sale that house with that walkway included in that property.

Project2021

And there is a gate for them but it’s placed outside of their binderies

RonanG86

Your solicitor's already advised you that they may have a case for it being a de facto right of way, even if a right of way is not registered on the folio, because it's being used as one, and that you should contact a barrister for more definitive advice. So I think you should either do that, or just leave things as they are.

To just go ahead and block it off is at the very least going to cause arguments with your neighbours and possibly drag you into a legal dispute. Doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

Project2021

So I just wondering is someone have issues like that and what was the outcome

cruizer101

So the house in red is your house and the neighbours is the one in the middle of the 3 houses?

In that case it makes sense that there is an access lane for them, its not unusual in terraced houses to have a lane that goes along the back and comes up by the end of terrace houses to give access to back gardens.

I can't give actual legal advice, that is for your solicitor, but it seems like a normal enough setup with a right of way

Project2021

Thank you very much for an opinion

Princess Calla

Tbh it looks like the design and every second house seems to be the same.

I would say looking at the plans is that the intention is there for your neighbour to have a right of way, and you got the house with the smaller garden due to the lane

What about the rest of the estate? I think that will play a massive part in deciding who is "right" as if your neighbour counters "number 6,8,10,12 all have same footprint with no issue, it's a right of way" it will be very hard for you to counter if you are a lone soldier.

Personally I'd be wary of buying any property with shared access as it often ends in tears.

chooseusername

Yours is an end house in a terrace of 3, you're not semi-detached.

The middle house needs to access their rear garden along the end of your garden

via the walkway between you and the house on your left as you look at the map.

Project2021

So I just wondering if it’s worth to pay 800€ for Barrister if the case is not to contest. Other houses in the same situation has walkway as they property some of them give away rights to it

Project2021

The house on the left doesn’t share that walkway only houses to the right

It's the design, to honest, it looks to me as if the folio map is wrong and your boundary should be the inner wall. If you want to spend €800 on a Barrister, go ahead.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101398#Comment_118101398

Where the houses sold with a gate exiting into the laneway?

If they were it's clearly the design it was intended that they have use of the lane.

If so in my opinion you're throwing away 800 quid going to a barrister.

Up to you at the end of the day.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101424#Comment_118101424

The house on the right of the red-circled one looks like it has access from the next house along who has the same side access set-up as the OP. So has the house in the middle a right of way over both the properties?

silver2020

and this is how neighbourly disputes start - all because one fucwit wants more that they are entitled to.

This is a classic example. One person want to block another neighbour's access just so that they can scam an extra 3ft of garden.

It is almost certain that the neighbour has rights of access as it's in the design of all the similar houses.

You would also have difficulty selling (which you probably will do soon as relations with your neighbours are going to be very sour from now on) as there will be issues when the buyers solicitors sees that there is a problem.

So you have now cut any hope of a good relationship with your next door neighbour over some flawed and selfish thinking - hope you don't have kids that may have a ball go over the wall.

POBox19

Your house is 'end-terrace, and your neighbour is probably right.

The red line on your map appears to take more ground than is within the curtilage of your property. You should move the line, on the left side, so that it lines up with your gable end and garden wall. There is clearly access provided for the house next door from the end of their garden out to the road at the front. This has been repeated for every house that is 'mid-terrace' along the road. Blocking your neighbour's access could leave you with an expensive legal fee to pay.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101492#Comment_118101492

It looks as if the access route is there to meet the needs of the middle of terrace dwelling as you say. And the left hand dwelling may have it's own narrow access to front? Photos of the situation on the ground would help. In general though such 'walkways' are put there for a purpose and if I was the OPs neighbour, I'd be rightly pissed off if the OP attempted to close it off to improve their garden. Why bring trouble on yourself??

This is not a public right of way, it's there to facilitate your neighbours.

muffler

If you're going to pay 800 to a barrister for an opinion I could give you my opinion for half that.

Spanish Eyes

Keep the gate and share the keys.

BronsonTB

Every third house has the exact same 'issue' looking at that estate plan - Think this is by design & not unique to your house.

Think you bought the wrong house!

Has any other neightbour successfully closed off access to the lane for the middle house on any of the terrace blocks like yours?

silver2020

btw, for the OP, my map shows that my property goes to halfway across the lane that cars and farm vehicles use. Similarly people who live on main roads will have their maps show a line halfway across a main road.

Maybe we'll all block up the main roads and laneways of the country.

btw - I'd take muffler's offer and save yourself €400 for the same answer

PilotHole

I wouldn't have touched a house with that garden design.

recipe for diester ,

If i was in the center house I'd be putting my own gate up too.

endacl

Who designs crap like this....

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101800#Comment_118101800

Architects .... runs!

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101542#Comment_118101542

I'd say he's got it for free here, especially from @silver2020

Project2021

Yes,

well some of the comments are not necessarily nice, but I understand why. We are very confused because we received many different options and answers from people and solicitors. When we buy that house we wasn’t aware of that issue.That’s why I like to have an option from someone who’s go through something like that. I’m not looking for arguments with my neighbours or any of the people in this group. Thank you

Project2021

It’s actually happened when my neighbour was selling the house and ask me to sign right of way for new owners

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101228#Comment_118101228

That drawing looks like it is intended to identify the house, not the boundaries. What does the contract say about the boundaries?

Project2021

In my mind was a question why you own that land but you have no rights to it but when someone break them leg there I will be responsible for it as they can claim from my insurance. And that new owners are passive aggressive about it they demand not let me understand or anything.

Project2021

:(€;6€))€

TheW1zard

The house in the middle of the terrace also seems to have access? Is there a gate there also?

Project2021

hfgudku

listermint

You don't need a barristers. You need a land surveyor and a folio lookup. With all due respect the folio map can say what it likes but there should be accompanying text with it also. The fact a I presume concrete lane was build down the side of your fenced garden and around the back with a gate into your neighbors means they may obliterate you in court. And a very expensive battle for the two of you.

I'm fully presuming you were 100 percent aware of their access when you moved in but this only became an issue when they looked to resolve the situation amicably with a rights of way on paper. Unusually you never questioned this when you bought the house ??

wench

Going by your earlier map, this is part of the original layout of the estate. It isn't something your neighbour has done to try and take advantage of you.

As they are selling, and it looks like the intended right of way wasn't registered, they are just trying to formalise the existing situation.

mickdw

I do this kind of mapping for a living.

Seeing as the estate is set out this way, you would be a very awkward neighbour to try to attempt to stop use of the rear access. I also find it hard to believe that these access routes were not registered at least in some cases.

Anyway, I would give the right of way to the neighbour and if they are in the situation where they are selling' you will likely have them cover all the solicitor costs of sorting this. That's a win in my book.

I would however ensure that the gate to their property was relocated to the boundary line if not already at that location. That gate will then be neighbours to lock.

You have no business locking any gate to restrict access. You should have separate gate off access path into your garden which you can lock as you see fit.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103100#Comment_118103100

That's a plannign map to simply identify a property. It has no meaning in identifying physical boundaries. The land registry (and your solicitor) will have the physical boundaries that will be clearly marked.

Relying on a planning map for a boundary position is simply ridiculous and any 1st year legal student would tell you that. You should avoid any solicitor giving specific boundary advice based on a planning map as they lack very very basic knowledge of conveyancing

Project2021

€(:€‘can chin

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105647#Comment_118105647

Thats not a planning map.

Project2021

!?,;:.?!’n

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106432#Comment_118106432

Do you need access to that walkway? Are you actually entitled to access the walkway?

From a security perspective, it might make sense to close it off at the front (which would benefit your property).

Project2021

);::)’mbvbmm

Project2021

&€(7€,:(€&!&

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106579#Comment_118106579

You're assuming the walkway belongs to you.

You don't actually know that for a fact, though, going by what you've posted in this thread so far.

I'd start by establishing exactly where your property boundaries are, and take it from there, before starting a dispute with neighbours that could last a lifetime!

Project2021

€:):)€:

Seth Brundle

With no offence intended, I'm of the view that it is you appearing to be the arrogant one in trying to close off an entrance that you know has been used by a neighbour. I'd also be very surprised if the land was sold on the basis that the person adjacent to the lane holds full possession of the lane despite it obviously intended for the use by the middle house (and them only I'd wager). Did your solicitor actually look at the original deeds?

Your solicitor also recommended seeking the advice of a barrister which would suggest that the solicitor is unsure of your legal title to the property. You however, appear to be ignoring this professional advice and claiming to be the owner.

The map you posted earlier - where did that map come from originally? Maybe show us your property as it is on https://www.landdirect.ie/pramap/

TheW1zard

Agreed landdirect would be a more accurate boundary.

Look at the layout of the estate, its obvious its there to provide access

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106635#Comment_118106635

Whats with all the editing and deleting the content of your posts? Thats 4 posts now that you have edited.

TheW1zard

He realised his neighbours will see this

LLewellen Farquarson

Did you notice on the OPs original map that where there are 4 houses together, that both end houses have access paths for the inner houses.

Seems obvious to me that they are originally planned for access for the inner houses.

And as someone said I'd be very surprised if rights of way weren't originally recorded.