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What should I have for a viewing?

  • 28-10-2021 10:48am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    I have a viewing and just wondering what I should have ready if I need anything?


    I have references ready. Do I need a holding deposit or is everything now bank transfer?


    Also... I really don't want to annoy a potential landlord, things are so hard to come by as it. Even though I work, I am entitled to HAP and if it knocks off a little of the rent, I'll take it. But I can probably afford the rent without it. Really don't want to annoy a landlord, should I mention anything about HAP or leave it be?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭ C14N


    Last few rentals I've done have taken deposit by bank transfer. Since that usually takes a day or two to go through, they're usually happy enough if you can just send them a screenshot of your banking app showing the money was sent.

    If you are thinking of HAP, you can always just get the place without it and then switch to using it afterwards. Landlords are not allowed to refuse it as far as I'm aware, or turn you down for using it, and I don't really see any reason they would be put off by it since it's very reliable payments for them, but if you're worried about it you could always push it off for a month or two, especially if you haven't got it all in place and ready to go yet (I applied for it previously and it took a good few weeks for it all to be set up with the council in the first place).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    I done a little search online on the place I will be viewing.


    It was advertised as an apartment. But from what I understand there are two apartments in the same building. Both apartments are registered with the RTB.


    Is there anything I should be aware of when viewing a place like this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    Sounds like everything is above board and shows the landlord is probably keeping up to date with the changing regulations if apartments are RTB registered. They'll be aware of HAP rules too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    I looked up the wrong apartments and it turns out that the landlord won't be registering the tenancy with rtb. And he won't accept HAP either. Not sure what all this means. Is it best I stay away from somewhere like this?


    It is a decent place but not sure about all this. His reasons is he doesn't want hassle which is fair enough. The HAP and council makes unreasonable demands.

    But will I get hassle from him?

    I don't want to be one of these people who moves in and doesn't say a word about HAP because a landlord can't refuse. But seems like I won't get the place because of it. He has other tenants viewing the place.


    But seriously what do I do going forward? Say nothing about HAP, it seems to be very common with landlords.


    If this is something I am entitled to, I want to get it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    Its a legal requirement to register a tenancy with RTB. The LL is out of order and it's risky for him if he doesn't want hassle. The dodgy LL's give the decent ones a bad name.

    Its a tough decision for you when you need to find a place to live so you have to do what's right for you. People's circumstances & financial situations change all the time, you could be fine for months then need to apply for HAP. LL's shouldn't have a problem as long as the rent is paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ YipeeDee


    It is a criminal offence for a landlord not to register with the RTB.

    It is also a criminal offence for a landlord not to register a tenancy.

    Punishable with a €4000 fine and / or 3 months in prison.

    The RTB automatically sends all a registered LL’s information to the Revenue Commissions, so chances are

    this illegal LL is avoiding paying tax.

    It is illegal LL’s like this that give legitimate LL’s a bad name.

    I recommend you report this individual to the RTB and any other relevant authority.

    Best of Luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    All I have is his first name? I wonder is that why he wouldn't accept HAP either, apparently landlords have to have a tax clearance certificate. Or it could be just I could be viewed as a bad tenant for being on HAP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ YipeeDee


    Do you have anything in writing that he has sent to you re. Renting the property, or responding to information you have sent him?

    Anything that would prove his intent to rent the property and not register with the RTB?

    Yes landlords need to have a tax clearance cert in order to be able to take State payments.

    A person may “temporarily” not be able to get a tax clearance cert for various reasons why they may not be up to date with their tax affairs. Doesn’t necessarily mean they are not paying tax at all .)

    The red flag here for me, is that he is not registered with the RTB.

    And his earnings from renting are therefore not being declared.

    That screams to me more than anything else he is likely not paying tax.

    I’d recommend gathering up whatever you can in evidence, and reporting him.

    If he is renting property and not registering himself and / or his tenancies, he is committing a criminal offence.

    Best of luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    All I have is his first name and rental address and I know he has three apartments at the same address (or in the one house) and none of them registered, so it's far from an accidental landlord, probably been dodging tax for years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    Does he live at the same address in the same house as the three apartments? Are they bedsits or completely self contained units



  • Registered Users Posts: 73,702 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    There should be some sort of course like a Safe Pass for landlords to get a breeze of actual laws before they rent out property, it's complete amateur hour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal




  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ YipeeDee


    Three apartments and none registered? Absolutely no doubt so.

    I really hope he gets caught and thrown in jail.

    So sick of being tarred with the same brush as swindlers like him.

    The problem is there’s no way to catch them unless their tenants report them to the authorities.

    And I acknowledge that’s very hard when there’s such a demand for rentals.

    Sorry for your troubles.

    But you’ve likely dodged a bullet with that fraudster.

    Hope you find a place with a legitimate RTB landlord soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    Not sure what to do going forward and looking elsewhere. I know it's a legal requirement to register with the RTB but that isn't exactly my issue and it doesn't affect me as a tenant as I can still bring a case to the RTB.


    Although, I can probably pay rent now, circumstances change, will it be then I run into trouble? I don't want hassle and be faced with an eviction when I might have to rely on HAP then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,238 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    While it is totally illegal to not be registered with the RTB and not to take HAP, the assumption that he is not paying tax is a bit of a jump.

    Some LL are put off renting to HAP because of regulation. If he has three apartments in this one building he probably has others elsewhere. I be most surprised if he is not making a tax return.

    The most likely LL not to be making a tax return is the LL with only one property. In today's environment it is virtually impossible to not to get caught if you have multiple properties.

    Mind you he is an idiot not registering with the RTB.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    Maybe the other apartments dont need to be registered, they could be let to the council or some other valid reason.

    The OP didnt say if it was an entire apartment he was looking at or a share / licensee situation so maybe there's a reason that won't be registered either. Not helpful to demonise the LL and immediately call to criminalise or jail him without having all the facts. He could be dodgy but innocent until proven guilty etc...

    As regards not paying his tax, well, it would be foolish to try and scam the Revenue, they know who owns properties through the LPT and they have every taxpayers address, including tenants - they're not stupid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    I wouldn't take not being able to find him on the RTB website as proof of not being registered, the website is notoriously unreliable. Unless something has changed in the last couple of years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    I know it's an unreliable website but he actually said it himself that he won't be registering the tenancy because I asked him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    Sounds like a very risky thing for a LL to say he's not registering a tenancy and he refuses HAP to a random person viewing a place. If he's renting more than one property and ignoring the rules he knows that making those statements could land him in all sorts of trouble.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    Maybe he got away with things easily enough before and never had to say those things.


    Unfortunately, I know for the next time, say nothing about HAP. But then I can be given notice within my first six months. So I don't know what the best thing to be doing here.


    I missed an earlier question of yours. I was viewing an entire apartment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    Also it was probably an odd question on my part to ask will he be registering the tenancy. But there's so much scams going around, how am I meant to know if it was a scam or not. Show me the property, get money and then feck off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭ C14N


    I'd say it's odd in the sense of most tenants probably wouldn't ask it (it certainly wouldn't have occurred to me any time I rented, because I would just assume it would be), but you're fully justified in asking it imo. He could have easily gotten away with it this long just because the people renting it don't really know to check.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ YipeeDee


    "A bit of a jump" to presume he's not paying tax? Are you kidding me? lol.

    You might have missed the part where this guy has openly admitted to committing two criminal offences?

    Failure to register a tenancy and refusal of HAP payment. TWO criminal offences.

    So, no I don't think it's any kind of a "jump" to presume he's not paying tax.

    As for your claim that he's "most likely" only not declaring tax just on one of the three properties.

    What's that supposed to mean? So he's only a little bit of a criminal? lol.

    You're forgetting something here. If he was paying tax on his other properties, and was only being a criminal on this particular apartment.

    Why would he be avoiding HAP ? He doesn't want to deal with the council on this apartment, but is happy to deal with them on the other two?

    He'd also already have a tax clearance cert if he was taking HAP tenancies in the other two.

    And yes, there are unscrupulous fraudsters that are renting multiple properties and not paying tax for years.

    Unfortunately tenants are so desperate for accommodation many of them don't even ask for confirmation of their tenancy registration with the RTB. Or for the landlords' RTB registration number. They may never have had any dealings with the RTB or even know that they're able to look up their own tenancy to see if it's registered at all.

    I have zero time for fraudsters like this guy.

    Report and I hope he gets his just desserts. He's giving every legitimate landlord a bad name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ YipeeDee


    1. On your point that maybe the other apartments don't need to be registered as they could be let to the council?

    Not the way it works. When you let your property to the council, it's for years 10 -15 years and they take it over, lock stock and barrel.

    They chose the tenants for it, not the owner of the property. The owner would not be advertising the property and conducting viewings at all.

    Furthermore, if he were in receipt of State payment for ANY kind of service, be that taking over his property, or supplying any other kind of product or service, a tax clearance cert is required for any kind of State contract.

    I know this because my company has had a State contract some years ago, and a tax clearance cert was required.

    You don't get the contract unless you can provide a tax clearance cert.


    2. The OP said that the landlord doesn't live in the building, so no, not a licensee either.


    3. I shouldn't be calling to criminalise or jail him without all the facts. lol.

    The guy has admitted himself to committing two criminal offences.

    Failure to register a tenancy and refusal of HAP.

    So I make no apologies for calling someone out as a criminal, especially when they've admitted it themselves.

    4. With regards to the revenue knowing who owns each property through LPT. So what?

    Firstly, there's no guarantee he owns all three of these apartments.

    One could be in his wife's name, one could be in his son or daughters name?

    And even if his name is on all three, so what? There's no law against owning three properties.

    As for the tenants paying tax from the other apartments.

    Where's the law that prohibits a property owner from allowing a family member or friend live in their own property?

    A property owner is perfectly entitled to have guests stay and live as long as they like.

    And a citizen does not need to own or be renting a property in order to be able to use the address for their job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    Maybe the OP couldn't find the property on the RTB register because it's vacant.

    The register is for existing private tenancies so if properties are not on it, it could be for any number of reasons eg they were let long term to the council, (don't need to be registered) or if owners wife, daughter/son or parent is living in any of them, or as you say, friends etc. Maybe it was an airbnb before the rules changed, maybe it was renovated/ altered in some way, maybe it hasn't been let for a few years, maybe it was for sale etc., lots of reasons the OP might not find it.

    OTOH, maybe the landlord is dodgy - if he lets to a private tenant and fails to register when required then he's breaking the law, but the OP doesn't know for sure that a future tenancy wouldn't be registered, and if a sitting tenant applied for a HAP subsidy, the LL can't refuse no matter what he says. Otherwise he would cause himself a lot of problems, and anyway, lots of people say all sorts of things they don't follow through on.

    Any landlord who thinks they can scam rental income these days needs to think again, as the RTB provide details of tenancies to Revenue. If second or multiple properties are occupied but not registered, that might raise a red flag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ YipeeDee


    Because the OP said this:

    “I know it's an unreliable website but he actually said it himself that he won't be registering the tenancy because I asked him.”

    ………

    I stand by my previous comments on the matter and have nothing else to add.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ fun loving criminal


    Honestly have no idea what to do with future viewings and if I should continue asking it though.


    That registering a tenancy is none of my business. But at the same time, it's nice to know if a landlord follows the rules and in this case this landlord definitely didn't. Does that mean I will run into trouble in the future?


    As soon as I mentioned HAP, I was completely shot down and was told that he won't be going further and labelled as someone with an attitude. An attitude for asking questions and me handing over money!!!


    Do I shut my mouth and not ask about rtb tenancy registration and pay deposit and rent for a few months before mentioning the H word?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭ C14N


    I think asking about the RTB registration is completely fair game. The only ones who would have any problem with this are ones you would almost certainly want to avoid anyway, like the one mentioned in your original post.

    HAP is a little bit different. You don't need to mention it before renting imo. In theory, you can't be turned down for it, but if they have 4 interested parties and one wants to use HAP, and for whatever reason the LL doesn't want a HAP tenant, they can just pick one of the other ones and you'll never be able to prove the HAP was the reason. However, if they accept you, it's going to be a lot harder to turf you out afterwards for paying with HAP, even within the first 6 months. At that point, they'll also know that you are a reliable tenant who isn't going to wreck the place, so any prejudices they might have had will hopefully be over-ruled by thier desire to just avoid the hassle of trying to get someone out and rent it again.

    If @YipeeDee is correct, this LL may just have not wanted HAP because they were operating in an under-handed way. Not registering the tenancy and possibly even not paying tax on rental income. Accepting HAP would mean they'd have to run it above-board, at least as far as the paperwork is concerned. I think most LLs would not have such an aversion to it in the first place, but it's still not something they need to know before you move in.



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