Are we supposed......to believe....etc

ShatterAlan

It is now being reported that Afghan women are selling their kids in order to eat.

That never happened when Geldoff was trying to "feed the world"

The rumour back in the day was that Venezualans had to eat flamingoes or that Ghadaffi gave viagra to his sodiers so that they would have a hard on and rape.

And people believed that crap. Now that the US is out of Afghanistan and have cut off all aid we have to belive that kids are being sold for a bowl of rice.

HAHAHA.

Peregrinus

Why would you not believe this? Where did you think trafficked children came from? And what on earth makes you think that this didn't happen in the famines of the 1980s? Of course it did. It has been happening since forever.

People don't sell their children so they can eat. They sell their children so their children can eat. They release their children to an orphanage, or to someone offering a street job in the city or a factory job in some sweatshop, or to some situation where they hope there is some prospect that the child may be fed, when the child will likely starve if it stays at home.

Is this happening in Afghanistan right now? I've no idea. Neither do you.

I believe the gist of the opening post is "it's all lies because America."

Jequ0n

An unusual form of birth control, but each to their own.

I’m not sure why you are so surprised, OP. Evidence or supporting material is obviously not required before a story can be broadcasted via social media.

osarusan

“Each to their own”…you really are a weirdo.

Brucie Bonus

If I was in Afghanistan I'd probably give my child away for nothing if he or she could get out from under the Taliban.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073242#Comment_118073242

Probably yes, but not sure why you'd take offence here. Surely these people can decide for themselves what they want to do.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076672#Comment_118076672

Would you gove your child away in order to feed yourself, like the report has mentioned?

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076672#Comment_118076672

And what EXACTLY are the Taliban doing to cause women to just give away their progeny, their babies? This report wasn't about giving up an infant for a better "life", it was a nonsensical propaganda charade stating that mother were SELLING their children, not giving them away for safety purposes, but SELLING them for a meal.

Do you know a single woman who would do that?

Do you know a single man who wasn't a sadist or violent offender, if somehow you gave hie viagra and he got a boner, then all of a sudden he would pin women down and rape them? Lie we are led to believe in Libya?

Really?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083292#Comment_118083292

Well this...

https://www.ranker.com/list/story-behind-photo-of-children-for-sale/1499368817867

archer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083292#Comment_118083292

Yep all those enemies of America do be doing terrible things apparently...Saddams lads used to be throwing babies out of incubators, Assad gassing everyone, Kim Jong Un machine gunning his ex girlfriends etc.

And I don't know where to start with all the bad things China has been getting up to (even genocide) since America decided they were an economic and military rival.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083329#Comment_118083329

And all those flamingoes in Venezeula ... all 30,000 of them that had to be eaten in order to sustain a starving population of some 20 million.

30,000 flamingoes would make up, what? 30k Sunday roasts.....so that would feed 10k people FOR ONE DAY. Given that there might be some leftovers for sandwiches and flamingo curry on tuesday, what have they been eating since that one day flamingo cook-off?

Now I understand that toddlers have to be caged at the Mexican border because they could have RPGs in their cots. Or Maria is escaping Guatamala death squads in order to steal all those lettuce picking jobs in Iowa, but I am reluctant to believe that she will sell her daughter for a burger any more so than Beth from Flint or Yolanda from Oakland would contemplate such a thing.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214750/are-we-supposed-to-believe-etc

How the fcuk could someone read an article even remotely suggesting what's in the OP, about a country that saw the unsuccessful end to 2 decades of war just a few weeks ago and end their post about laughing?

Whatever is going on in Afghanistan, and it's much more likely to be as others have pointed out rather than you're take on it, it's a pretty sociopathic take on it to belittle their suffering in this way.

Oh dear, downplaying the Taliban's behaviour because America.

Nnnnnnot a good look.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083329#Comment_118083329

Used to be a great bunch of lads.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083281#Comment_118083281

Did you mean to link to a report here or in your earlier post?

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083329#Comment_118083329

One has to beg the question......what crap will they come up with next and what will people believe without even thinking.

Think back on some of the crap that was put out there and people just lapped it up.

. Saddam Hussein had his soldiers dump infants out of incubators, witnessed by a person who wasn't even in the country.

. Uday and Khusay, Saddam's sons, slashed the legs and feet of Iraqi soccer players and then dipped them in an open sewer so that the wounds would become infected (that was a good one)

. The Russians are about to send the Red Army into Estonia (for what....who knows?), They are also buzzing British and Irish airspace (again, for what?)

. Assad is gassing peasants (for what?)

. Chavez is going to bomb Miami to get back at all those pimps who fled in the 50's HAHAHA

Let the list go on.

I imagine a paranoid schizophrenic on salvia could stay more focussed on a discussion than the OP. "There are reports...", "Where are they?", "There are also reports...", "Where are they?", "We're meant to believe...". Jesus Christ.

Black Swan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214750/are-we-supposed-to-believe-etc

Not sold, but what about the Famine Orphan Scheme of 1848 to 1850 where 4,114 Irish orphans were transported to the Australian colonies on 20 ships during the height of the Great Famine? Source the Irish Emigration Museum in Dub.

If we want to relive black Irish humour, read A Modest Proposal by our Jonathan Swift.

I don't believe every word - I do believe bad things have been done by all though, and I wouldn't just refuse to believe this because of wrongdoing by the US. You know, you can actually acknowledge wrongdoings by all, and not "pick sides"! 😲

Peregrinus

"Selling" of children isn't uncommon in societies where child labour is common and children make a financial contribution to the household. Even though the contribution may be small, it can be significant in a poor household. Although the opportunity for the child to e.g. move to the city and take a factory job may look like a good one from the child's perspective - better, at least, than their prospects if they remain at home - the contribution they make or will make to the household if they stay at home may not be something the parents can easily forego. So the agents who recruit children for labour (or other purposes) will commonly include a cash payment to the parents to offset the loss to the household as part of the deal.

The parents don't think of this as selling their children. They think of this as a contribution their child makes, funded by the work the child will do in his or her new position.

The only story remotely similar to what the op described is below. It's not coming across as remotely outrageous and is far from the first time it's happened during a period of conflict.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-afghanistan-sinks-into-destitution-some-sell-children-to-survive-11634387501

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083356#Comment_118083356

The story was on the BBC. But you're so right.

Horsesh1t....because UHHHMMM.... Murka.

We all know that Murka thrashes around and kills people who don't deserve it. I'm talking about nonsense like a woman selling her baby to get a meal.

GO OUT and find me a single woman who would sell her child to feed herself. A mother would tear herself to pieices before she would gives up her child.

sydthebeat

Alan has no credibility in this website as he's a known liar in other fora

I can't go out and find such a woman because I'm blessed not to be living in Taliban controlled Afghanistan.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083551#Comment_118083551

Linketty-link?

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083434#Comment_118083434

Yeah...thanks for that BUD. A nation that was starved and put to the sword. Surrounded by riflemen. Were Irishwomen selling their children for a bowl of porridge after the Brits were sent away? Like we are supposed to believe is happening now in Afghanistan? How many Vietnamese mother said "fcuk it" in 1975? "I would love a bowl of Pho, so I'm just going to sell little Quoang hy Thu, my first born" ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083281#Comment_118083281

Probably not, but there have always been people who, for whatever reason, had less concern or connection with their offspring. Just look at the periods of child labor in Western history, and you'll find children who were sold to orphanages who, in turn, became workers in deplorable conditions, in some cases being essentially slaves.

It would be nice to think that all parents are wonderful human beings, but the simple truth is that the ability to have children is not dependent on a persons sound judgment or balanced mental health.

Jequ0n

I think OP references an article by BBC correspondent Yogita Limae, who seems to be behind several of these stories.

Either way. The mother made a choice, so not sure why she is now lamenting. Maybe more money for the interview.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083522#Comment_118083522

Yeah, thanks for that mate. We are led to believe, according to the BBC, that Afghan women are selling their children in order to eat.

I don't want to hear about a crackhead father having his children taken away. The report was that women are selling their children for food.

And you believe that? Afghanistan is now at peace ....who knows for how long? And Afghan mothers are selling their kids?

So an Afghan woman shelters her baby from door kickings and drone strikes that have whacked her sister's wedding. She has put the baby under the stairs with the cat as US Marines have put a gun in her husband's mouth and scremaed "speak English, Haji, motherfucker"

And she's going to sell her children for a kebab?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083591#Comment_118083591

You’d be wilfully ignorant to be so certain that there doesn’t exist mothers who would sell their own children to feed themselves, but as for the example of mothers selling their children in Afghanistan - it’s been happening for years. I don’t see what American withdrawal has to do with anything other than being used to highlight the issue now, when it’s been known about for decades in poorer societies that in order to survive, children are being trafficked or being sold to provide for the rest of the family.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083591#Comment_118083591

I saw the BBC news report a couple of nights ago and the images of the starving children in the hospital were harrowing. I had a quick search on the BBC website but it wasn’t on their front page but I’ll go have another look for it now after this post.

For those that didn’t see it - the BBC reporter visited an hospital where there were infants being tube fed for malnutrition. The report showed sone infants sharing a cot as numbers being admitted increases. The reporter mentioned that health staff have not been paid since The Taliban took control but the report showed infants being fed by tube so they had supplies.

The reporter was then on the street and said she and her team had been approached by a mother asking if they would by her child. The reporter was then in a small village. She was in a small home (hut like) and the reporter told us they sometimes go a full day without food. They are a family of five (i think) and the baby was a few months old. The mother said that they had sold the baby daughter but she would stay with them till she was a bit older. They mentioned that they had sold her to a man who intended to marry the baby off to one of his sons.

I’ll go find the report if I can 😞

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083628#Comment_118083628

And you believe that? Afghanistan is now at peace ....who knows for how long? And Afghan mothers are selling their kids?

In many ways, Afghanistan is in a worse place now than during the war. They're certainly not at peace considering the power plays going on. In any case, the situation of the common person is likely to be awful, especially for those who are without resources, or are at odds with the ruling groups. It's not exactly a booming economy, and poverty is widespread.

So an Afghan woman shelters her baby from door kickings and drone strikes that have whacked her sister's wedding. She has put the baby under the stairs with the cat as US Marines have put a gun in her husband's mouth and scremaed "speak English, Haji, motherfucker"

And she's going to sell her children for a kebab?

You're projecting... you have no idea of the state of mind or history of those who would be involved in selling their own offspring. You've decided the set the scenario of someone who has protected their children against all dangers.. but what about those who have been bad parents previously, or those who are ideologically motivated towards a cause, considering their children as being irritations to be removed.

The simple truth is that becoming a parent doesn't automatically make you a "good" person, nor does it mean that your circumstances are going to be better because of it. In many cases, considering the state of Afghanistan, having a child could make your circumstances worse.

How about victims of rape in a society that emphasizes the need of wedlock before having children? How do you think your life would be like under such a restrictive culture, as an unmarried mother and a society that likely would just jump to the assumption that you were a "loose" woman? A traditional hardline Islamic culture wouldn't be a good place for any woman with a child and had never been married. In such a traditional society, you really think there's going to be much sympathy for a rape victim during war? Hardly.

osarusan

Jesus OP, whether this has actually happened or not in Afghanistan as the BBC reported, you are making yourself look very silly firstly with your insistence that NO MOTHER WOULD EVER SELL A CHILD when we have plenty of examples of poverty-stricken families in different countries doing that, and secondly, the repeated attempts to diminish or misrepresent the situation with stupid references to 'a bowl of rice', 'a bowl of porridge', 'a bowl of Pho, and 'a kebab', as if it is a single meal that is on offer in such situations.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083628#Comment_118083628

I don't know why you won't link to the report so we can evaluate it for ourselves. I'm going to hazard a guess, though, that it didn't claim anyone was selling their children for a kebab.

This is the news report I watched

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-59034650

osarusan

BBC Report: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-59034650

Summary of that aspect of the report/video here:

______

Grieving parents outside the city of Herat have told how they sold off their baby daughter for the equivalent of £360 to a man who lives nearby. The man has claimed she will be married off to his son when she is older but the parents know the girl may face a far worse future than marrying his son.

The unnamed mother cried as she told a BBC reporter: “My other children were dying of hunger so we had to sell my daughter. How can I not be sad? She is my child. I wish I didn’t have to sell my daughter.”

Her husband’s only job was once collecting rubbish locally but even that earns no money now. The husband says: “We are starving. Right now we have no flour, no oil at home. We have nothing. My daughter does not know what her future will be. I don’t know how she will feel about it but I had to do it.”

______

(Christ this new Quote function is totally useless)

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083705#Comment_118083705

Thanks for the link. But it's not working for me. All I can read is the headline which says "Afghan baby girl sold for $500 by starving family".

Assuming that's a fair summary of the report, I don't see why ShatterAlan finds it either incredible or amusing. As others have pointe out, things like this do happen in times of crisis, especially famine. There are plenty of precedents. People do it both to feed the rest of the family and in the interests of the child sold - she, too, will die if the family starves, so they hope to save her as well as themselves.

ShatterAlan may refuse to believe it if he chooses, but he's not arguing against it. He hasn't engaged with the discussion of why it happens, or attempted to refute any of the precedents offered showing that it does happen.

In a way, his reaction is understandable - there are things from which one averts the mind, and the desperation of people driven to such a thing could be one of them.

Jequ0n

“Her husband’s only job was once collecting rubbish locally but even that earns no money now.”

Yeah, sounds like the family was living the dream before the Taliban destroyed it all.

@Peregrinus

@Peregrinus found it on YouTube

https://youtu.be/N2RocJDb_jE

Nobody said anything about "a kebab", but OK.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084351#Comment_118084351

did you miss post #31 where alan said "And she's going to sell her children for a kebab?"

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083329#Comment_118083329

German soldiers used to throw babies up in the air and impale them on the end of their bayonets according to british newspapers...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084393#Comment_118084393

That's the comment I'm referring to - didn't see any other one! (But should have quoted)

That kind of dishonesty makes for poor arguing.

When America lives rent-free in folks' head though, they can come up with right gems.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084515#Comment_118084515

shatteralan is well known in these parts for his lying and dishonesty

so i woudlnt be giving any credence to what he posts

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214750/are-we-supposed-to-believe-etc

You are back at it again.

People selling and trafficking children/babies has happened throughout history and unfortunately still goes on.

Philippine mothers selling babies

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/philippines-mothers-trade-babies-for-illegal-adoption-779736

Malaysia

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/1/baby-selling-investigation-leads-to-arrests-in-malaysia#:~:text=Kuala%20Lumpur%2C%20Malaysia%20%E2%80%93%20Malaysian%20police,the%20outskirts%20of%20Kuala%20Lumpur.

Kenya

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55250431

Benin

https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131004&page=1

Afghanistan is experiencing famine and extreme poverty, so it's unsurprising to read similar stories.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084437#Comment_118084437

There was one specific SS unit that was notorious for these kind of acts (link to the head of one below) Children have been brutally murdered and tortured throughout history, there are countless grim examples of it all the way up to modern times. In the 20th century, when Japan invaded China, they would tie civilians to stakes and get their new recruits to practice bayonetting (to get them used to killing) drawing a circle around the heart so as to avoid killing them and prolong the pain of the victim, and when Japanese forces had killed all the POWs in Nanking, they turned on the remaining men, women and children and started murdering, torturing and raping them systematically (it's horrendous, but photos still survive of these atrocities if you dare to look) Even having beheading competitions, that were widely reported on in the local press. In Australia, despite laws, aborigines were commonly murdered until the 20's, and up until the 70's, the state was taking aboriginal children from their families. History is brutal and replete with countless examples of extreme systematic cruelty, murder, trafficking and torture towards children.

Edit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger

Beasty

Trolling thread closed