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Homelessness executive criticises charities/services over tents and on street food

  • 22-10-2021 9:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,010 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog
    Registered User


    Have to say I agree with everything here. I have no doubt some of the volunteers are kind hearted who just want to help.

    However, I am absolutely convinced they are being used as a political and financial tool to keep homelessness in full view of the public and homeless people on the streets in tents or eating food.

    I think there needs to be a crack down on these services intentionally encouraging people to stay in tents or eat dinner on the street when there is accommodation available. Most may not be pleasant but it's a roof and heat.

    Also the statement that most of the users of these services are not even homeless is bizarre as well.

    One night of -10c this winter in Dublin and this charade will end in tragedy.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,105 ✭✭✭✭ One eyed Jack
    Registered User


    ”Most may not be pleasant…” is an understatement 😂


    Has it occurred to you that people who are homeless, would rather stay in a tent even if it drops to -20c, than stay in a hostel or homeless shelter?





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭ Sweetemotion
    Registered User


    Maybe people are tired of the large salaries, these so called charities pay themselves and would rather donate food than money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,105 ✭✭✭✭ One eyed Jack
    Registered User



    Oh I didn’t mean that anyone use PMVT as an example of anything, I was just making the point that the OP doesn’t appear to have considered the possibility that people who are homeless don’t want to use homeless services and would rather take the risk of perishing outside in the freezing cold.

    I personally don’t see people providing charity to people who are homeless as a bad thing, but I can understand why the organisations which provide the services might see it as a bad thing, or the council might see homeless people living out in the open as a bad thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69
    Registered User


    Oh so those photos are staged.


    Shock horror.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ corner of hells
    Registered User


    They do , it's called housing first providing wrap round for roughsleepers.

    It's particularly difficult to work with entrenched rough sleepers often needing multiple professionals and services to engage with the individual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ corner of hells
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    Funny really. We are actually shaking our heads at shoddily run charities and the clientel and industry that has grown up around homelessness and the housing crisis. We'll question the bona fides of those using the services because some believe in some way it takes the blame off the politicians who created it all.

    It's like during the black death giving out that some of the dead died of unrelated health issues and the numbers aren't accurate.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Naomi Square Xylophone
    Registered User


    You have just proven one of the points in the findings. Some use the homeless for political gain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭ padd b1975
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,393 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes
    Registered User


    Is this allowed because the food is free or what? I don't think any food truck or stand can just set up anywhere in the cities, I always thought a permit was needed and health and food safety were checked.

    Would be sorted in the morning if city councils demanded permits and FSAI approval and registration or whatever they do with inspection of food providers. I don't see what the issue is apart from a reluctance to do this. Maybe there is no requirement for this, which would explain why DRHE (under the aegis of DCC) have commented. I agree fully with all their comments, but who should bite the bullet here?

    At the very least in the interim such activities should be moved off the main thoroughfares. That's right, away from high trafficked areas for a start. It looks bloody awful, and there are plenty of Government supports and donations for charities providing food from their premises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭  Cognitive Dissident


    I'd start with a zero tolerance for drugs, littering, on street drinking and begging. This applies to all citizens/ residents.

    Then, make it compulsory for anyone registering as homeless to take any available homeless facility thats offered. These facilities would implement a zero tolerance to drugs/ criminality on their premises. There would be no excuse not to use them because they aren't ' safe ' . Theres no reason why these facilities should be in any way intolerable. Take away the ASB and they are fine. Women and children are housed separately in hotels/ B&Bs so this only applies to single males. There are also accommodation options elsewhere outside of the cities which can be used.

    I would then get the Guards onboard to take a zero tolerance approach to drug dealers who target residents of homeless facilities, eyeing up their social welfare payments. This one is key.

    At this point we can disband all of the unhelpful homeless charities thats have cropped up in recent years, whose main aim appears to be political point scoring against other organisations. Appears to be their only achievement too.

    From this point it is possible to make a medium term plan involving online training for jobs etc, until more log term options are available. No resources for drug treatments...they are a waste of time. Redirect them to program management initiatives for jobs training .

    All the above is doable and inexpensive.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Naomi Square Xylophone
    Registered User


    Only food outlets receiving payment for their goods need a permit etc. While many people distribute food out of the goodness of their hearts, others do so for political gain.

    If someone sets up a soup kitchen, they have no control over who avails of it. Nor are they in a position to identify and help those in need of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,891 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi
    Registered User


    You really don't get what "addicted" means, do you?

    While I agree that yes there's a whole industry that has grown up around this issue, and there's any amount of duplication of services and waste of resources as a result, it's not as simple as you make out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭ padd b1975
    Registered User


    Of course they can identify the moochers.

    If I'm giving out free food and I see Anto and Jacinta rock up clad head to toe in expensive sportswear then I'm well within my rights to tell them to shop in Dunnes Stores and spend the savings on feeding themselves.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Naomi Square Xylophone
    Registered User


    Would you refuse Anto and his Mott some of your free food?



  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭  Cognitive Dissident


    I do - I see it every day in the inner city.

    I have little tolerance for drug users though. If you're stupid enough to take drugs in 2021...you need to fix the problem yourself, without the involvement of state ' services '. Dublin has been hostage to this drug culture nonsense for too long. Take away drugs and 70% of the homeless problem is fixed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,891 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi
    Registered User


    You have a very high (and wildly unrealistic) opinion of the ability of addicts to "fix the problem themselves".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭ padd b1975
    Registered User


    I'd be very tempted to.

    I'd definitely tell them to get better value when clothes shopping.



  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭  Cognitive Dissident


    Take away social welfare payments and it might sharpen their resolve.

    The problem is, with tax payer funded treatment problems, there is no negative-consequences for poor decisions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,891 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi
    Registered User


    Again, "resolve" and addiction aren't really good bedfellows. You're looking at this from a healthy, rational perspective. It really doesn't work like that in the world of addiction.

    And just to be clear, I don't know what the solutions are - but simply depriving addicts of drugs and money without any alternative supports isn't one of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭  Cognitive Dissident


    And so the homeless circus will keep rolling on...

    Heres a solution to avoid being homeless.

    • Stay off drugs
    • Keep alcohol to a minimum ( better off avoiding it actually )
    • Keep up moderate exercise and fresh air
    • Keep a mostly good diet/ healthy body weight.
    • Get training in a skill that is in demand by the jobs market.

    Most would consider that to be within reach of all walks of life and abilities. None of it requires state ' supports ' . The state is even offering training through ICT and Springboard initiatives for free, which can be done online.

    In addition to avoiding homelessness, by following the above, you will be less of a burden on fellow tax payers too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,891 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi
    Registered User


    That's lovely.

    Off you go and tell that to the good citizens of the back lanes and the tenement flats around inner city Dublin for starters, and see how you get on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ corner of hells
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,142 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble
    Registered User


    Unfortunately the quality of parenting offered in many homes is so poor that this is not within reach of a substantial number.

    If we want to fix homelessness, we need to start compulsorily contraception for those who lack the basic physical and emotional resources to raise a child. And this will never happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭ manonboard
    Registered User


    Hmmm I'm not in any way being a smart ass, but these opinions lack any experience of actually dealing with addiction n mental health.

    May I ask you have you ever actually supported a person who had an addiction or depression/anexity disorders that come with addiction?

    Your solution is simple because it's already the end result of NOT having an addiction. It's very equivalent to telling someone with depression to have happy thoughts, or someone with mind created chronic pain that there's no pain so they shouldn't feel like there is.

    Your solutions are the decisions people make when they have a healthy mind.. they're next to impossible for someone to make before having a healthy mind. The majority of addicts facing your solutions would very quickly stop using all services due to failure and Shame, n end up in a far worse place then currently.

    You can't ask people to be healthy or else you won't provide them with services to get the healthy. It's an immediate failure n has never ever worked anywhere in the world.

    The zero tolerance approach is easy for us to implement. It just has failed to work ever so we go with strategies that have higher success rates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭  Cognitive Dissident


    I don't. Why would I? I keep far away from all that kind of thing. But I do wonder about this persistent malaise of ' anxiety & depression ' ..and all the other low level mental health problems that seem to plague some people. Fresh air, a hike, a good diet, hydration...all work wonders for general health. According to every GP that cares to give an honest opinion.

    I'm suspicious when people mention these afflictions as some crutch/ excuse for poor life decisions. Effectively, it normalises dysfunction. Just like some people here think its normal to take drugs, and that addiction is just some random misfortune. Like tripping up while walking down the street.

    The traditional values of personal accountability no longer seem to count which opens the door to NGOs/ services / charities to step in and take responsibility for these peoples poor life decisions, as if it were just bad luck.

    Zero tolerance worked wonders for a New York crime wave during the 80s. Zero tolerance does work when implemented correctly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭  Cognitive Dissident


    Too busy setting up quangos and solipsistic charities to consider simple solutions.



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