Are mods just giving up or is the reporting function broken?

A poster on, of all forums, the legal forum, referred to travellers as "inbr3ds...s**tting everywhere".

Obviously I reported it, assuming it's a very straightforward matter. The post has been tweaked a little, but remains in place.

As someone who was banned from a forum for 6 months for calling a racist footballer a "clown", I have given out before about the awful modding. But have they just downed tools (which I could kinda understand) or is the report function broken, as I've seen a mod on the American Football forum asking to be PMed as the report function there is broken.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214195/are-mods-just-giving-up-or-is-the-reporting-function-broken

Hello.

No, the mods haven’t given up. It just takes longer to identify reports from our/their forums because they’re not labelled anymore. I believe this is on the list of things to be fixed. There are one or two slipping through the net though, so if you see something particularly egregious that hasn’t been actioned, report it again and it will be bumped to the top of the list again.

Witcher

I saw a post saying to PM mods with any reports...the only issue being you can't see who the f'ing mods are any more down the bottom of the forum.

I have reported the same posts over and over, because I'm not sure if they have been seen by mods or not.

The last one I reported was just deleted, along with any replies. I'm not sure why, No one learns anything from that? It wasn't particularly abusive except to me personally. It would have been far better to be red carded.

But, anyway, at least I know a mod actually saw it. I wasn't sure whether standards had dropped, or there were no mods anymore!

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086850#Comment_118086850

Probably haven't been seen. Reported posts is effectively broken and has been since the migration. If it is any of my categories (social & fun, recreation and hobbies or home and garden) feel free to pm me.

It is a "challenging" time for mods so bear with them

Tell me how

It most definitely is a challenging time for the mods over the last couple of months.

I'm not commenting here to have a go at them but to see that as a consequence of this, the experience of using the site has been impacted in a negative way. I've flagged some posts myself that have been sitting on the thread close to 24 hours which wouldn't have lasted 30 minutes previously and the number of mods actively working has such seems to be way down on what it was with a lot of it being done by one Mod who, and I say this to indicate the need for support for them more than anything else, seems to be getting strained from doing so.

The lack of cards being displayed is also a negative in my view as they were way more impactful that a mod comment further down the page or on the next page.

Tork

I hope these "challenging times" don't lead to mods just walking away. It's a thankless voluntary job, unless those rumours about cocaine and hookers are true!

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086923#Comment_118086923

frankly Im amazed they're still sticking around given the mess everything has become and the complete lack of support shown by the office

Dempo1

I've no doubt Mods have had a trying time since migration, personally I like the new Touch site, desktop version horrid.

But I would have thought reporting functionality would have been a number one Priority during migration , particularly given the liability aspect of certain posts. Some forums on here have become astonishingly hostile and some posts quite alarming.

AndrewJRenko

How do I report a private message in the new environment please?

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093058#Comment_118093058

There is no way to report private messages at the moment. I would suggest forwarding the PM to an admin such as @Beasty and let him take it from there.

Dial Hard

It's gone beyond ridiculous at this point, and PMing mods with a link to the post in question is a pain in the arse on mobile.

There's a documentary producer spamming various threads on the site looking for people who built houses next door to their parents. No point reporting the posts as they won't get seen and I couldn't be arsed going through the PM rigmarole, especially when you can't even see who the mods on a given page are anymore.

banie01

The reports all enter a queue that doesn't break out reports by category.

PM's can no longer be reported.

Mod action on threads is erratic at best and the sanction system is still both unclear and often a sanction is applied to an account with no message to the user as to the trigger.

The shítshow that has been the migration to Vanilla with an attempt to reskin alá boards can surely at this point be held up for the failure it has been?

Rather than try an keep functionality that Vanilla was never built to replicate?

Ditch the skinning and the crutch, look at sites that implement vanilla well and copy best practice.

The move has already destroyed a lot of trust in boards staff, it has destroyed the platform functionality, the mod tools are pathetic, the growth in posting that doesn't just approach the line but blows past it? Is surely evidence of that!

The whole move has been one that is an example of precisely how not to manage a migration.

The VBulletin Boards is dead, rather than constantly attempt skinning efforts to retain the appearance?

Let it die, have a wake and implement whatever Vanilla does well to manage the disaster that is unfolding and evolving since this awful strategy of migration management was implemented.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093471#Comment_118093471

That’s not strictly true either. That account has just been banned for spamming and it was only active for an hour. Given that the weekend always sees less hands on deck, I’d say that’s a pretty good response time.

We are seeing reported posts. They’re just not neatly categorised as they were before.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093565#Comment_118093565

OK great, one particular example was dealt with efficiently. That doesn't materially change the fact that the modding tools since the migration clearly aren't fit for purpose.

PI/RI has turned into a really unpleasant place recently and Big Bag of Chips and Hannibal Smith are basically reduced to typing at people in bold. Forum bans are no longer possible, I believe and it looks like cards are a thing of the past too.

Their job is being made even more difficult by the fact that PI/RI threads are now visible on the front page when they never used to be, so are attracting a lot more "randomers" than they previously would have. As a regular, good faith poster, I find that forum absolutely exhausting these days, so I can only imagine how the poor mods feel.

ZX7R

Unless a mediator is an active poster in the forum they mediate there is not much of a problem.

But larger forums are suffering badly, by the time a report is delt with the damage is done.

Reregs are still a serious issue.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093589#Comment_118093589

You haven’t said anything I disagree with. There are problems that need to be fixed, and they are being worked on one at a time. Even having said that, I don’t think the answer is to stop reporting posts. They are being looked at as they come in and action is being taken behind the scenes that you might not see as a regular user. Yes, one or two are slipping through the net, and measures are being taken to make sure that doesn’t happen anywhere near as much as it has been in the early months of switching to Vanilla. We’re getting there, albeit not as fast an initially hoped.

ZX7R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093650#Comment_118093650

There in is your main problem

If regular users don't visually see some action been taken ie cards, they would likely perceive nothing is been done.

No point putting a note in the fist page of a tread as it's near on impossible to view if on mobile.

Writing warnings get quickly lost in a busy tread.

And let's be honest it's way more than one or two slipping through.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093650#Comment_118093650

1 or 2 is a bit disingenuous. Many mods have at this stage abandoned the reported posts forum and are just maintaining things as best they can within their forums with no mod tools available to them. It is the very unlucky troll that gets caught these days. Personally the only time I would sanction a post would be where it arose in a thread I was actually reading. We have had mods in busy forums quit recently due to the lack of tools. There are forums where I am cat mod where I do not actually know who the mods of the forums are. I had written most down in a spreadsheet but hadn't got to some of the quieter forums before things went south.

To say all is mostly well just is not true. We are still not at a stage where we even know what mods are remaining as of yet.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093527#Comment_118093527

You see new forums set up that seem to have vastly more working functionality than this site out of the box.

I'm not seeing this site as fixable given the length of time since migration and so much that is broken has not been fixed.

I'm probably overly pessimistic.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093730#Comment_118093730

Well, if the responses you're getting in the moderator's forum are anything like what regular users are getting, I wouldn't blame every moderator for walking away. I admire anybody who's taking the trouble to stick around now. I get the impression that some in boards HQ never appreciated or understood what they had. Goodwill only lasts for so long though. We all accept that the Vanilla migration was a shitshow but there's now a doubling down going on with management. It's be far more productive if they were more open and honest with people and were on board with trying to make boards better.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093730#Comment_118093730

Again, I don’t disagree. My ‘one or two’ remark was, of course, not based on a quantitative analysis of the RP forum. If you take a look as it currently sits, you’ll see the majority are being decided upon by one admin. Perhaps more admins could chip in and help out in there while we don’t have RP tags? That would certainly help.

I don’t think I said all is mostly well either. I agree with you that mod tools are essential for us to do our jobs. When everyone from Niamh down admits that there are problems that need to be resolved, I certainly am not turning into Baghdad Bob and saying ‘nothing to see here’.

I share your frustration. I don’t know any mod who doesn’t.

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093527#Comment_118093527

At this stage, I have to agree.

The closest and most often comparable board in terms of traffic and forums and the one which would be widely known on here is DigitalSpy Forums in the UK.

It's functional and clean as far as I can see using Vanilla.

Boards really needs to pare down the categories & forums - they are massively unwieldy. Most of them could be merged into overall categories/forums and survive as threads.

The amount of patches etc to imitate precisely the old look of boards is a very big bottleneck to the resolution of navigation and other usability issues.

Flinty997

I just wonder why the admins think this version of the forum software is salvageable considering all ongoing major issues.

If we had some forward looking plan rather than this limbo would be appreciated.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093689#Comment_118093689

I will usually delete posts I have actioned just to avoid further reports and concerns that action may not have been taken.

On reporting PMs yes forward them to me at present and I will have a look. Abusive PMs will usually attract a siteban-(typically 1 month for a first offence, although abuse can range from very mild to on occasion thoroughly disgusting comments, and shorter or longer bans may be applied)

We have been told that some of the modding tools previously available are now a priority, but even things that are a priority are taking time

There are a couple of us Admins who are picking up the spammers. Most are dealt with within an hour or two, but sometimes they can be missed. Please report posts you see that are spamming - I can usually guess it's a spammer from the thread title, but if I see 4 or 5 reports for a post that's usually indicative of a spammer. We have seen quite- a few more on this platform than we were getting on the old one

Re-regs can take a little longer to weed out due to the limited modding tools. However it should also be noted that people close one account and open another for a variety of reasons. A low postcount for someone who seems familiar with the site is not unreasonable and usually there is no issue with the new account. Equally though we will not ban on suspicion alone. We may need to build a case based on the activity of the new account.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093837#Comment_118093837

I think you are over estimating what boards HQ is. It is Niamh an IT guy and a part time CEO that seems to only do a couple of hours a week.

Niamh is part of the community and is well aware of what she has. She is overworked at this stage too. If she decides she has enough I don't know what will happen to the site. I know I wouldn't take the job.

Tork

I was being generous - it's obvious that boards is being run on a shoestring. Niamh seems to be doing Trojan work but where's the backup?

Flinty997

I think we can appreciate and respect that.

Its like someone at work taking too much up and overloading themselves into a breakdown. When everyone is telling them they need to step back and look at what is realistic given the available resources. If that means more modest objectives, and cutting lose the parts that are the most time consuming so be it. Some forums block certain subjects, because they are too time consuming to moderate.

https://www.liquidplanner.com/blog/10-tips-for-getting-your-chaotic-project-back-on-track/

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214195/are-mods-just-giving-up-or-is-the-reporting-function-broken

It seems that anyone can say anything they like regarding travellers here, similarly the Muslim community. The facilitation of far right trolls is bringing the website into disrepute. Some of the posts I've seen undoubtedly cross the line into incitement of hatred, a criminal offense.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093984#Comment_118093984

I don't think anyone expects Niamh or the CEO to sit at a desk 24/7 monitoring reports and deleting posts. The 'jobs' of moderators are unpaid, that's the reality, but as Conor says some of them don't bother dealing with hateful posts.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094142#Comment_118094142

Just to bring in @[Deleted User] since he mentioned this post in particular, I have located the post you referred to and I can confirm that it was deleted by a site admin and the user in question received an infraction point for such an unacceptable post. This tipped the poster over the limit of allowable infraction points and they have been sitting on a temporary site ban since 24th October in the hopes they will get the message IF they return.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094153#Comment_118094153

You say 'don't bother' but they may not even see them.

Also there is the issue as to what exactly is a hateful post. This has been debated ad nauseam on this site and I still wouldn't be confident I know where the line is.

Flinty997

I think people blur the line to make it hard to moderate. But I think the mod should have the fall back to block or ban if someone is making moderation difficult.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094442#Comment_118094442

I would say in every single thread on travellers there is either a hateful post or the entire thread is hateful. They're easy to spot, they usually have the most thanks. And I suspect that's precisely why the posters seem to get away with very light touch regulation. Because while it's blatant bigotry that would result in instant bans if similar sentiments were uttered about other ethnic groups, travellers are fair game. If a poster referred to black people as "inbreds s***ting everywhere" they would surely be banned for that alone with no need to rely on an accumulation of infractions.

Deja Boo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094153#Comment_118094153

adding to the last few words of your post^ ...or don't bother dealing with the new format (makes modding more difficult, for sure.)

Might be an idea to add a sticky to all forums (or finally update charters) to (1) name forum mods and cat mods and say (2) "in addition to reporting posts, PM mods or catmods to notify them of an issue"

I find the moderation here almost invisible lately, but when it is visible, it is often very unfair, with maybe exceptions for Pet Board, and Personal Issues.

Elsewhere, I guess I can best describe it as like when one kid is being bullied by another kid, but when the bullied kid retaliates, they are the one who gets caught and reprimanded for retaliating, while the bully gets away scott free - because the mods don't bother looking any further then the reported post.

That's my 2 cents worth.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094442#Comment_118094442

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094442#Comment_118094442

Ok, 'don't bother' is possibly unfair. But I have seen posts way worse than what Conor reported stay up for days. Whereas when I criticise politicians, using robust but non-hateful language, I get my posts swiftly edited and get infractions along the spurious grounds that I am 'causing upset'.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094906#Comment_118094906

No idea mate. Depends on the forum. For example if you are posting in the politics forum you would have to have a higher standard of post than if you posted the same comment in current affairs. If you are being carded in politics maybe stick to CA. If you are being carded in CA then maybe what you're saying is objectionable. There are vastly different standard across different forums so ensure you are comparing like with like.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094740#Comment_118094740

And yet the traveller haters have consistently said that the mods are traveller lovers who see no bad in them. Can't please everyone I'm afraid.

I hate traveller threads.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095142#Comment_118095142

But that's kinda the entire flaw in the policy right there.

There should be no trying to please racists and bigots. Someone who refers to an ethnic group as inbreds s***ting everywhere wouldn't last one post on a lot of forums.

Flinty997

With those kinds of threads. If you've any sanity you walk away.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093589#Comment_118093589

Dial Hard, we are carding posters, it's just cards are not visible to users. This is something that is being worked on I believe. The bold warning is a warning after the post has been carded so that posters know the post has been warned and don't continue to report it. We usually always post mod warnings in bold so they stand out on the thread.

I actually banned a user yesterday who was newly signed up 2 posts, both of them obviously trolling.

Mod tools are not what they used to be. But cards are being handed out and posters can still be banned.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095549#Comment_118095549

And if it was said on boards and a mod saw it it would get attention

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095781#Comment_118095781

We both know that's not true at all.

And we both know that, if it was egregious enough to get noticed, it would not be treated in the same way as other bigotry and racism. For saying that they are inbreds sh**ting everywhere, the poster would not have been banned except that s/he had accrued other infractions.

Look at this thread, in the first page posters talk about travellers in ways that would send off alarm bells about any other group. Would you tolerate someone referring to gay people or black people and 'the other absolutely disgusting, dispicable aspects of the 'culture'"? Or saying they should behave like "normal people"?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210438/how-to-fix-the-traveller-community/p1

When you said you can't please everyone, those posters should not be pleased. They should be simply banned. I assume the reason you (and other mods) hate travellers threads is because you cannot or will not do what's right. You take this bizarre "how do we treat the bigots fairly" position which completely differs when it comes to any other group.

Pawwed Rig

Well it is true so I don't know what else you want here and don't tell me what I know and don't know please.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096669#Comment_118096669

Well, I'm glad to hear that things have changed since you posted that you (and obviously other mods) hate travellers threads and even referred to trying to please everyone.

I hope you take this new spirit of decisiveness into modding them and travellers are treated just like every other ethnic group. No reason to hate the threads, no need to try and please bigots, just get rid.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093979#Comment_118093979

I think the approach of deleting sanctioned posts is completely wrong. It doesnt set an overall tone and allow users to see what mods deem has crossed the line of acceptability. Its like hiding problems rather than actively tackling problems.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094242#Comment_118094242

How come it wasnt actioned until bought up in feedback

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095142#Comment_118095142

I havent actually seen that consistently said.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096669#Comment_118096669

Why was the original post referred to ONLY given an infraction. Seems very lenient.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096716#Comment_118096716

And even if it was...why on earth would there be a policy of trying to please them? Why is the modding policy one of trying to treat "traveller haters" and "traveller lovers" equally?