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Opinion on Simmental

  • 21-10-2021 3:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭ Biscuitus
    Registered User


    Whats this forums opinion on the Simmental breed for sucklers versus Angus, Hereford, Charolais, limousine etc


    Looking at the AI catalogue and they bring size and confirmation, range from easy calving to mature and have good milks stats so they tick the box for terminal and replacement.


    Looking at a change of breeds on the farm. How are they calving? calves lively? Temperament? Hoofs? How well do they grade?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe
    Registered User


    My hoof trimmer says he pares a lot of Simmentals compared to other beef breeds. I think they cross great with limousin. I know if depends on individual bulls, but simms should bring milk, fertility and good docility. The white patch they bring on the forehead with lims can go against them though. Don't ask me why.

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭ Biscuitus
    Registered User


    I pair hoofs every year and that seems to have solved most of my trouble. Also culling the problem cows and using Ai instead of stock bulls has done wonders for hoof health.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭ Limestone Cowboy
    Registered User


    I'm leaning back towards them a bit. Had simmental bulls here for years before going to the lims and charolais. Bought a simmental bull last year and I'm right happy with the calves out of him. I wouldn't say they are easy calving but they are not as hard as a charolais. Calves are really quiet, they would put the lims to shame in that regard and they weighed like lead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey
    Registered User


    What's your ground/facilities like? Big rangey cows like the Sim might be harder to keep on some ground prone to poaching or poorer grass growth/quality. In those areas I would have thought a smaller hardier cow like an Angus or Hereford might be better suited. You'd need to factor that into your decision making.



  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭ Biscuitus
    Registered User


    Dry ground here(as long as the weather doesn't break down like last year!) so no problems with poaching.


    So would the sim cows cost more to keep than Angus or Hereford cause of their size? I was also thinking how to reduce the size of some of my cows to get more efficient size cows.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭ Limestone Cowboy
    Registered User


    A sim won't make them any smaller anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey
    Registered User


    I can only speak for our setup and land. The ones we had were big and were harder on the ground in terms of poaching after a bit of rain and also grass consumption.

    We are out of them now, so I'll not comment on the cost to keep of the breed in general - some of the other who have them can give a more up to date opinion. Salers might be another option for you, although I've read different thoughts on their flightiness/temperament. Ch & Lim stores/weanlings always seem to be the most popular at the mart - so maybe pick your cows to suit a Ch/Lim bull?



  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭ Biscuitus
    Registered User


    I've been warned about Salers temperament. I'd need to invest in better handling facilities if I was to go that route. Charloais are doing crazy prices in the mart but looking through the catalogue none of them are listed as replacement bulls, only for finishing stock and can run into milk problems. Limousin looks like a winner for sure.


    Reading up about Aubrac now. Says the cows are smaller than most other breeds and kill out very well. Also very docile. That might be a better route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭ Anto_Meath
    Registered User


    Aubrac are nice, easy managed & fair enough for milk. But poor sellers in the marts as weanlings around here, lads think they are Jex. But I like them. However you can't beat the limo, generally easy calved, hardy when born to up & drinking quickly & good sellers in the mart at any age. But you can run into milk problems or lack of...

    Post edited by Anto_Meath on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ minerleague
    Registered User


    Years ago used to do some AI for 6 weeks at start found sim calves very lazy and soft at birth, great animals after but factories don't want big carcass weights. A lot of farmers seem to be finishing earlier now so maybe that's not as big a problem then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey
    Registered User


    Leftfield call, but you could get some Stabiliser cows and put them to Charolais AI/bull. They are smallish, mostly docile and efficient feeders. You could go for a Stabiliser bull too, but you'd be better with the Ch cross in mart. If you are going the AI route then I think ST straws are overpriced plus they take quite a while to get access to them.

    Pre-calving minerals to the cows and not letting them get over fat can reduce a lot of issues at calving, but some bulls just turn a big or dopey calf regardless.


    ETA - We have some ST. Some folk like them, others hate them.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭ blue5000
    Moderator


    A sim cow would eat twice as much as an angus cow. That's all I have to say.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭ Biscuitus
    Registered User


    Thanks lads! Simmental is the opposite route I want to go in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭ Dunedin
    Registered User


    That’s the route I’m at at the minute. Have weanlings now which will be going to bull next spring. Lim cows off sim bull back to lim bull. Time will tell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭ Who2
    Registered User


    Time to buy a well muscled charolais bull Dunedin you should have serious weanlings with enough milk to carry through the first ch heifers for breeding if that’s the way you wanted to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭ jfh
    Registered User


    I've been crossing lim of simxfr cows last few years, the cows aren't as big as limxfr cows, had few purebred sim and they were massive alright.

    Heifers are nice but theyre just not as classy as lim and if they have a white head don't sell as well



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ DukeCaboom
    Registered User


    Are the six off your heifers? What age did their mothers calf down at?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ DukeCaboom
    Registered User


    That's exactly it. I bought a good few simmentals the last few years, their calves just don't have the style as off the calves off LM cows. I'm going back to LM.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,397 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler
    Registered User


    I used to have simmenthals when I was at it, lovely cattle. we used a charolais bull and you could fatten the progeny at any age over 18 mths. they were big cows alright and were a problem in wet years



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ DukeCaboom
    Registered User


    Ya that's one great thing about them there very quiet and easy to manage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gudstock
    Registered User


    We have had a pick and mix of most breeds as suckler dams here. Over the past 5 seasons i have been using Sim bulls to put together a good base of homebred Sim cows and will work with these with more terminal sires going forward.

    Yes, you take a hit on weanling bull prices, no one likes the white head on a weanling bull.

    Cows are sizeable, but calving at 24 months slows down the massive growth, of course some bloodlines are tidier than others.

    The cows make super dams, good calvers, quiet (this is not valued enough, and every society says their breed are the quietest- well Sims always are quiet) you cant put a value on quietness) milk, tough

    I have started crossing these with a CH, super weanlings for sale.

    The Sim/lim mix is a great cow alright, you like bring one F94L gene from the lim and cross then with a CH with a single Q or another F gene and then have a super shape to the calves.

    Ill also go against the grain here in that for the past 3 seasons im working with a homebred hybrid Sim bull. 50 cent x blue ADX cow, one F94L gene. Only get white heads off of white head cows, on a solid cow he brings only a little white on forehead, much easier sellers and the myostatin is essential somewhere in the mix to get it into the calves. My ch type cows bring a golden calf off of him so thats a positive too



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭ squinn2912
    Registered User


    Here’s my sim bull found him very easy calved with second calvers and strong heifers but a bit tight with smaller heifers. Fairly docile, calves are mostly calm. I’m looking for a good ch bull now. Have a lim

    at the moment too



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ DukeCaboom
    Registered User


    You've a great type of cow there. Mine are a slightly lower type. Might try to get few pictures today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭ squinn2912
    Registered User


    Thanks very much. Those white face ones are ones I bought as weanling/bulling heifers. Ch/wh 2/3 are great cows 1 just ok her calf was born a great one but shape leaving him.

    I find sim pulls back the quality a little so if your cows were on the muscly side he’d be a good match, if they’re on the shelly side then that will come through in calves more so.

    there’s maybe where ai is a good thing but I’m more a supporter of having your bull



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭ Dunedin
    Registered User


    Working full time off farm so find the limo a much better option. Easier calved and lively calves.

    Finish all stock so white faces, mouse colours, black, pink are all the same when hanging up!!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭ Hard Knocks
    Registered User


    Not on this farm

    The SI cow is taller & longer than the AA cow, eats less and her CH calf sells for more money

    Also the SIxAA is a good cow



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