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Worldwide labour shortages

  • 15-10-2021 8:52pm
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 9,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭ iamstop

    At least I think it's pretty world wide.

    Hearing about labour shortages in the Ireland, the US and here in Canada.

    The company I work for is having terrible trouble filling operator and assembler positions. I know a few other manufacturing companies locally that are struggling.

    Been hearing and seeing reports of cafes and restaurants unable to keep enough staff so having to close early on certain days. Tis mad when you consider all the automation and increase in productivity that's being going on since the start of the industrial revolution.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    The massive social supports rolled out were necessary at the start of the pandemic. I don't see how PUP is still justified if there are labour shortages

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,593 ✭✭✭✭ banie01

    Is it a labour shortage? Or is it perhaps rather more a case of economic shift? The shortage is most apparent in those jobs deemed low skilled and low paid. A particular example I'd use is the US where companies offering the federal minimum wage are encountering quite significant staffing issues. A quick overview is available in this article.

    The convergence of pandemic, restrictions and reassessment of economic value by workers, who are mobile and will more often pursue a better remuneration, and employers who see their labour as an input cost and seek to control it has really set the stage for a showdown IMO.

    This has particular inflationary risk. Rising wages do tend to raise prices. However an assessment of how we value work and in particular what work we value is needed.

    There are quite clear historical precedents to pandemics driving labour shortages and a subsequent redefining of social paradigms and wages.

    The plague of Justinian, the black death and it's particular impact of serfdom in europe, pandemic has always had an inflationary impact on wages.

    The UK example of the peasants revolt following the black death and the particular efforts of the barons to continue serfdom and to control the explosion in wages demanded by people in the aftermath.

    This is "plague" economics played out in the modern era. Workers are reassessing their worth and pursuing a wage. The volume vacancies versus the unemployment rate and it's continuing fall? Would indicate to me at least, that it's a bid/ask spread. When employers raise their bid? Their vacancy will be filled quicker, otherwise the workers will continue to refuse the lower offers and pursue a more favourable wage.

    The knock on effects of inflation will be a pain and an economic risk.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,140 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    yup, the time has come to address our failure to meet peoples actual needs, the cost of living has become too great for many, if not most, and many businesses simply cannot afford to foot the bill, it is time for the state to step in, and introduce radical measures such as ubi style systems etc etc

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    The problem with universal basic income is that it rewards the net consumers and penalises the net producers(in general)

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,140 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Unfortunately a certain portion of our population are incapable of productive work(the why is whole other debate). introducing universal basic income as proposed will mean they get an increase in their incomes and are still unlikely to gain productive work. Increased money to spend on fast food, cigarettes, drugs, alcohol etc and their kids will still be hungry

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭ SuperBowserWorld

    A lot of the time, we are not paying the true cost of an item/service.

    People expect a full chicken for less than a pint. We know it's nuts. The true costs are are much much higher.

    It's a race to the bottom and a huge bad debt to society and the environment.

    And that's just chicken.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,140 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    this is actual a highly prejudice view, theres actually highly complex root causes behind unemployment, particularly long term, you ll actually find most have never had their actual emotional and psychological needs meet by society, in particular by our state institutions, and in fact, most of their issues have been actually exasperated by them. this type of language to describe such people has only truly taken off since the 70/80's, from the Reagan/Thatcher era, it was introduced to exonerate the state and state institutions from these responsibilities, and it has worked, and continues to. the reasons you have given are in fact some of the most common results of such approaches, i.e. increasing likelihood of addiction issues, i.e. fast food, cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc etc etc

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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,140 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    but strangely enough, sometimes it would, pup payments have proven to be successful, literally giving citizens more money benefits them and the economy, as they spend it into the economy, its also important to realise, even many workers engage in whats called 'maladaptive behaviors', i.e. as you explained, addiction behaviors, i.e. these issues arent just solely evident amongst the unemployed, but..... whats actually required to deal with these issues is major investment in our major social institutions, i.e. health care systems, welfare systems, legal systems, educational and training systems etc etc etc, to try deal with them, and not just largely ignore them, which obviously isnt working. yes we have indeed seen a dramatic rise in these issues in ireland over the last few decades, clear evidence, that our critical social institutions and systems are in serious trouble, and are in desperate need of investment, program 'personal responsibility' is failing, and very badly!

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    The PUP was brilliant and worked very well, kept things ticking over, reduced suffering due to lockdown, and was the right call. However when there are big labour shortages, it is effectively subsidizing idleness. If i was an entertainment worker i would be seeking the jobs available. When(and if) things return to normal i would go back to my old employment.

    Also throwing more money(borrowed money) down literal black holes without any reform is not an investment

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,140 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    again, i think this is bullsh1t, certain elements in society are currently defaulting, theyre seeing the state and state benefits as as part of the competition, when in fact, its actually been providing the economy with critical needs throughout the pandemic, pup and other supports being perfect examples of which. many businesses would have gone under without them, and theres now a strong possibility many will, shortly after all of these supports are removed, pup has been providing the economy with critically needed liquidity, i.e. money, without which, far less business transactions could have taken place, which would have lead to many business failures. we need to move ahead with this type of mentality, i.e. both the state and the private sector working together for common goals, i.e. keeping as many in jobs as possible, and continually creating more jobs. by removing state supports such as pup, the pressure now moves back towards the private sector, and many private sector businesses wont be able to take on this pressure long term, particularly many sme's, many will simply buckle under the pressure, and permanently close, probably in the new year, obviously leading many back onto the dole, maintaining the cycle......

    i know many working in the entertainment industry, many took on other jobs during the pandemic, some probably wont return to it, its also gonna take a while for the industry to return to something that resembles normality, people cant survive under such precariousness, hence their decisions. the industry has always been fraught with precariousness, now its worst than its ever been, its rather hard to meet rental and mortgage obligations under such conditions, amongst under life responsibilities. 'idleness', more bullsh1t again, some of the hardest workers i know work in such industries, long hours, not so great pay etc etc etc

    ah yea, the good ould borrowing argument! once again, all money begins its life as debt, either in the public or private domains, but we ve been bamboozled

    into thinking public debt bad, private debt better, its clearly untrue, graph included!

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    Yes, food is far too cheap. It's ridiculous that I can get a chicken fillet for less than the price of a can of beer, or a fillet steak for less than the price of a pint. And yes I know people would struggle if food was dearer, but if we didn't have it rammed down our throat that we've to buy all kinds of unnecessary stuff all the time, people would have a lot more money to spare to spend on essential things.

    We used to spend a lot more % of our income on food until not too long ago, now we just have loads of left over money to replace our furniture every few years from IKEA and buy lots of tat. We should be paying the price for the impact all this rubbish has on the planet.

  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭ techman1

    "The convergence of pandemic, restrictions and reassessment of economic value by workers, who are mobile and will more often pursue a better remuneration, and employers who see their labour as an input cost and seek to control it has really set the stage for a showdown IMO.

    This has particular inflationary risk. Rising wages do tend to raise prices. However an assessment of how we value work and in particular what work we value is needed."

    But the shortages are not associated with high paid workers working from home, those people by and large stayed in their jobs.

    The shortages are due to lower paid workers who were never working from home but had to drive trucks, man factories and do the caring work. In Ireland s case the pup was a significant disincentive to work, and this is mirrored throughout the western world. Therefore many people decided not to return to these jobs getting paid maybe 450 euros a week, it was better to stay home and get 350euros, still 100,000 people on the pup.

    Probably monetary policies by the world's central banks to maintain demand by printing money but supply shock caused by factories closing down, meant that suppliers could not supply this demand. I doubt that will ever happen again, the global lockdown s, the inflation hit as a result will last a decade. They resurrected the long sleeping inflation dog and he is barking loudly, opec are now in control of the bone and they are not throwing it to him even when Joe Biden asks them to

  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 9,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭ iamstop


    Post edited by iamstop on