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EV or Hybrid for my needs?

  • 14-10-2021 3:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭ o1aa


    Hi all,

    Hope it's ok to post here.

    Im not sure whether to go fully electric or hybrid or maybe not change at all.....

    ------------

    Car I own now:

    1.5 diesel, 2013. Road tax €190. Very economical, 5l/100km.

    I am aware my car is getting older and if I sell this year I can still get good money for it. If I don't sell soon, it will depreciate v quickly and I'd stick with it till its not longer good to drive.

    ----------------

    My needs are as follows:

    At the moment I commute 33km one way to work, twice a week. I'd do 90km/h max, stuck in traffic through town in the mornings. Occasionally I'd take the motorway if the traffic is bad on the backroads.


    Then 3 days I week I commute Short distance 7km one way. A lot of traffic on the road, stuck in traffic for most of the commute.


    Weekends I'd do just the regular spins to the shops.

    Occassionally I'd go to Dublin so that would be motorway all the way.

    Twice a year I'd go to the West of Ireland so that's 250km one way. I'm aware I'd need to rent out a car kf I was doing a switch to ev.

    -------

    Possible change to my commute due to changing jobs could be:

    5x 40km commute each way. No traffic on the road, speed usually 80-90km/h

    ----

    I hope I included everything needed to assess my needs.

    As you can see my diesel car is cheap to run 😂 no issues with it. I just wanted a newer car and thought of electric/hybrid. If you were me what would you be leaning towards and why?

    It would be a family car.



«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    For your scenario the choice between a Plug-in Hybrid and a full Electric will come down to the availability of a charge point at your workplace.

    A PHEV will typically do about 40km on a single charge which should just about cover your daily commute one way. With a charge point at work you can then recharge and drive home again all Electric.

    If you don't have a charge point at work , then a full Electric model is the option for you so that you can gain the financial benefits of Electric driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭ o1aa


    What do you mean? I only posted it once.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    No - When I posted my reply it initially looked like I had posted twice , so I removed one but then it only showed one post again!! so I had to go back and repost.

    My technical error, not you at all.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    Your use case is 100% suited to going full EV.

    Will you have the ability to install a home charger?

    That 5l/100km is costing you about €7.50 in diesel. the same 100km in an EV would cost you around €1.20.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭ o1aa



    Thanks!

    I knew I was forgetting something. I'm getting solar panels installed next year.

    Yes, I can. I live in a house.

    I have looked at different ev cars and I'm just overwhelmed with the choice. My budget would be up to €20k. I'm looking at a family car so needs to have big enough boot space for strollers etc.

    I was thinking getting a second hand ev rather than brand new. Which 2nd hand EVs would you recommend and is it worth getting it from the UK/north?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭ o1aa


    There is none ATM. There is a charging point in town where I work but that would mean I'd have to walk 10-15 mins to my workplace. So not really ideal. I wouldn't think there are any plans for installing a charging point there tbh.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    Then Electric is the option so..

    Public charge points are too expensive for PHEV's - They charge too slowly to really use them..



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    Forget about bringing in a car from mainland U.K., that ship has sailed..


    A 2nd hand Hyundai Ionic 28 is a family car, with exceptional efficiency, and could be got for around the €17k mark.


    Some in here swear by them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    EV will definitely work for your use case, 40km round trip is easy for any EV and will be extremely cheap to run, even compared to a diesel

    Your budget kind of narrows it down to a few cars

    • Nissan Leaf 30kWh or 40kWh (if you can get one at the right price)
    • Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh
    • Renault Zoe 40kWh

    Can't think of anything else that will fit into that budget, unfortunately it's a real sellers market at the moment with 2nd hand car prices going up in general

    The first 2 should work as family cars, they both fit buggy's and car seats no problem

    The long trip out west would make me look at the Ioniq, it's the most efficient of them all and has the best fast charging

    You'd probably be looking at a quick charge each way plus an overnight charge at your destination if possible

    There's plenty of Ioniq owners here who would be able to give a better idea of the range than me



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,796 ✭✭✭ LorenzoB


    At his driving, how long will it take for the cost of a charger to pay for itself from the fuel savings? Two years?



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    not sure as its not just the fuel savings, its also the cheaper motor tax & tolls, as well as reduced maintenance costs of an EV.


    but lets say he's driving 200km per week, that's roughly €12.60 a week of savings going from Diesel to EV, times 50 weeks a year is around €630 in fuel savings.

    A charger will cost anything from €400-€1,000, but there is a €600 grant available. Lets say €1,000 all in for charger and installation, minus €600 grant is about €400, the fuel savings of which will take about 8 months to recoup. So a fairly sound investment.


    So in summary, I'd say between 6-8 months for a charger to pay for itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,909 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    100% EV will work for you and be cheaper to run and most definitely once you get solar, its a complete no brainer.

    PHEV were alright a few years back when things were kicking off, now they make no sense

    As for "Twice a year I'd go to the West of Ireland so that's 250km one way. I'm aware I'd need to rent out a car kf I was doing a switch to ev." that was never the case, you just had to wait to charge midway through the journey. Nowadays there's EV's that will do that without needing to stop and most can top up charge at a decent rate so even plugging in and popping into the service station for 30 mins (toilet, bite to eat and a coffee) will still see you add enough charge to get you to your destination easily



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭ o1aa


    Thanks everyone for your input. I have been looking at getting an electric car since 2018 so I think I'm set on that now.

    Thanks for everyone assuming I'm a "he" . 🙄🙄🙄

    As to the trip to the west we always stop for 20mins or so for some food so I guess charging it midway is also an option.

    I'd say I will trade in my car if they give me a good price and get second hand ev from a dealership. Going into one tomorrow so I'll see what they have available.

    Once I have some prices I'll post them here to hear opinion on the price and the battery life left on them 🙂

    @AndyBoBandy thanks for doing out the maths for me 👍👍

    Also, do ev cars need to be brought to a mechanic every year? To be honest, with my current car, they just change oils and filters mainly so I am wondering,do you still need to service it every year ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭ MightyMunster


    Servicing depends on the brand, Tesla for example don't have a regular service plan. In general though you won't have DPF filters, timing belt replacement, gear box replacement, regular oil changes and just far fewer parts that can go wrong



  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,018 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    If you end up going for an Ioniq for example the service interval is 15000km or one year, whichever comes first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,593 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    What’s your budget based on?

    20k + running costs

    the running costs are much less than an ICE do perhaps you could push out your budget.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    That's a fair point that some people don't factor in.

    If today you're spending €100 a month on Diesel and with an EV your costs drop to ~€20/month for charging, in theory you have up to another €80 a month to add to a loan repayment without any net impact to total expenditure.

    It's worth working out the figures fully - Even if you stick to the original budget you might be able to clear the loan in a shorter period etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Most EVs will have a 1 year service interval, but tbh it's total BS. There's nothing in it that requires annual servicing so the only thing they do is inspect it and change the pollen filter. VW ID cars have changed to a 2 year unlimited mileage service interval because there's so little to do with the cars

    Tyres and brake pads are the main consumables, and if you're conservative with your driving then they'll last years

    I'd recommend taking a look at EV database, that'll give a good idea of range and charging speeds (archive link is below for 2nd hand cars). Just watch out for the winter range estimate. It's based on -10C at European motorway speeds (130km/h). Our milder winters don't have as much impact and backing off the speed to 110km/h can help lower consumption a lot

    I would highly recommend going for a test drive in any EV if you haven't already done so, just to get an idea of how they drive. Just give your local dealership a call and arrange a drive of whatever EV they have (make sure they'll have it charged before you go for a spin)

    Fair warning, you might get hooked on how easy they are to drive around. I test drove a Leaf a few years back intending to not buy it. Instead I ended up putting the deposit down by the end of the day 🤣

    Also, it might be worth looking into selling your car privately. The price of 2nd hand cars has shot up recently and you could get several thousand more than trading in for just a few hours of work



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    When we visited the Tesla showroom in January 2020, I asked the guy about maintenance and service intervals etc... and he just said, "there's none! just bring it back to us every 2 years or so and we'll check the brakes are still working ok.. maybe change the brake fluid.."

    19 months & 43,000 km later all it's needed was a new set of rear tyres... Brake pads are only just worn in, probably 90-95% left on them. The only time I actually use the brakes is when the car is at 100% and there's no regen available, which is rarely.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    I get that there's substantially less things to be looked for Servicing , but surely things like filters and the various fluids for the AC system etc. need to be checked/replaced at a reasonable interval?



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    Yes, mostly the same as the stuff in all cars like filters, wiper blades, tyres, etc... but generally they are minor things, as its the ICE that eats up most of the maintenance cost of an ICE car...


    Not sure how regular the aircon needs topping up, but when I bought my BMW in 2012, I got the aircon topped up as it wasn't effective, and it still works fine 9 years later!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,593 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    The air filters are generally located in an area that’s easily accessed, like the glove box . And hence you can replace them yourself for less than 20 euro.

    Many EVs use drum brakes so don’t even needs pads or discs.

    Fluids, are generally sealed. Brakes and power steering , and don’t need regular replacements.


    if your AC needs a top up, get it topped up, no need for a service



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭ Wheety


    It can display twice when you first post but if you refresh or go out and back into the thread it shows only once.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ reboot


    A recent bbc radio programme pointed out that the UK intends to phase out hybrids 5 years after diesel and petrol, seems a lot of companies have bought fleet hybrids,but the staff can't be bothered switching over to electric,so drive a very heavy battery around,polluting more than ICE vehicles!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    I can attest to that - I bought a UK import PHEV and less than 1% of the mileage on the car was Electric.

    I'm running at roughly 60% electric only mileage since I got it , but then I plug it in every day.

    Previous owner had clearly never once plugged it in to charge and ran it in Sport mode exclusively so it never used Electric mode.

    I guess when you aren't paying for the fuel you just don't care.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Wasn't there a tax brake in the UK for PHEVs a few years back? I think it got scrapped for exactly the reasons you said, the cars never got charged. There was a big flood of 2nd hand PHEVs on the market around that time (2018/19 I think???)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    Brake drums will need periodic checking and "shoes" instead of pads however and they can warp with heat if, for instance, the handbrake gets stuck or is rubbing the inside of the drum for long periods.

    With regards to the question of PHEV or BEV by the OP. I went with a PHEV this time around as the economics of a BEV just did not work out for me (high initial purchase price and availability of a model I would want to be in). The comfort of having over 1000km of range in the PHEV in case I need it was the overriding reason for me and I can get around perfectly well on the almost 60km of distance that the car can cover on the battery alone (in the summer of course... in winter it is closer to 50km). There was 1 occasion where I had to drive to Galway and back twice in a day for family reasons and it was good to know that I could do that all in the one shot without having to pull over and wait for a charge. The Galway run is a regular one for my family and we cover this every 2 weeks, although like you, we would pull over for a quick bite half way (but I would not bother to plug in anywhere with the PHEV). I do, however, have charging in my workplace and I live 10km from the office so I can quite comfortably be 2 days in the office without having to drive anywhere else in the meantime and then charge while I am working. Weekends are mostly covered on battery power (even when we get to Galway) and I charge the car a few times a week (in fact, as I type, I realise I have not charged it since Sunday but I have been shopping and other places in the meantime on battery power alone).

    All this being said, I think your use case would suit a BEV, but I still believe PHEVs have a place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ reboot


    Think your right on that,some of us pure electric drivers are finding hybrids blocking the bays,not needing a charge and not bothering to plug in.One now famous hybrid gentleman in Downpatrick has been doing just that,going to work,bay blocked all day for the last 6 years . No-one can touch him as no legislation over those years,nor likely to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ reboot




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,878 ✭✭✭ recode the site


    I have a Toyota CH-R hybrid and find it excellent. Extremely good to drive and seems to run on air with city driving, and generally economical. I got 3 years servicing included in purchase, it has low taxation and good insurance profile. Tons of safety spec, no range anxiety, great handling. Couldn’t recommend enough from my personal experience.



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