Ideas for dodging the upcoming peak tariffs

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021508#Comment_118021508

I guess some folks like reading emails and opening meter boxes. Not my bag tbh.

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018675#Comment_118018675

No carbon tax on electricity as such. The carbon pricing for electricity is in the form of the EU emissions trading system allowances. The generator has to buy allowances at auction for every tonne of CO2 emitted.

yrreg0850

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118020210#Comment_118020210

There are two problems with estimated bills.

1 If the estimated bill is near the end of your contract period and you wish to switch and you have been overestimated .

2 . Electric Ireland do not give you any notice of pending bills and, if you try enter reading before estimated bill is issued, it is rejected.

Energia do give a number of days notice.

SlitDrip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021515#Comment_118021515

Your bag is posting on boards 14 hours a day 🤣

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021207#Comment_118021207

I hope you're paid €200 an hour because by your reckoning that's what your time is worth 😉

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023396#Comment_118023396

Yeah.....ok, I kinda see what your saying, but I'm not sure how a person would be "out of pocket" though. Ultimately there's a number on the dial, and for some bills that number is estimated, and then 3 (or is it 4?) times a year a tech comes out from ESB networks and does an official reading. It's every other bill, at least with SSE. Estimated-actual-estimated-actual- etc.

So if you over (or under) pay on the estimated bill, your next bill based off the official number will rebalance. When you move providers, isnt there a "closing bill" which sees you right? Same number on the dial then given to new provider, so you can't really hide units (or double pay)

Yeah, its a pain in the hoop going to the meter, but even if you don't do it - just not seeing how anyone can be out of pocket here? Should all balance out in the wash.

paulbok

No worse than the poxy level pay bills.

Grr I hate them, will avoid them in the future, and not just because I'll have pv shortly.

SouthWesterly

I put 20 a week into my account and don't have a bill at the end of 2 months.

The meter is literally just outside my door. I pass it several times a day.

For those of you who find it problematic, it must be at the end of the garden locked in the shed to which you need to find the key. 🤣

afatbollix

I think you're missing the point. Those with a smart meter don't even have to look at it anymore.

(Just got updated to a smart meter, I'm on an old tariff the only difference is that they get a reading every day)

Not sure why you wouldn't want one tbh. It's not like they force you onto a bad tariff.

This thread is going off-topic, You won't have to worry about peak load In Ireland, They ask factories and data centres to run on generators if they get to that stage.

But I will be looking at getting a battery in the future so I can fill up in the summer on solar and winter the overnight lower tariff.

Wheety

Only drink tea/coffee in the early hours of the morning

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024464#Comment_118024464

Well asking data centres to run off generators isn't a very sustainable solution and is going to turn off investors (which we're very much dependant on still)

So the grid is going to need to support them in the long run. This might be using batteries for short term peaks, but the simple fact is that peak tariffs exist now, and they're only going to get higher with time

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024506#Comment_118024506

Work at nights, sleep during the day 😂

I did consider seeing how much would be saved by boiling a kettle full of water just before 5pm and loading up a thermos to last until 7pm

Probably about 5c a year

idc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024464#Comment_118024464

Are on a standard 24 hour tariff? If thats the case it makes no difference you can still be on the 24 hour tariff. Problem is people on day/night tariffs can't move to a smart meter without being forced onto a different tariff as no supplier is offering the existing night rate for smart meters.

SouthWesterly

Stop using electricity. It's the only solution.

sudocremegg

I generally cook around 3-4pm anyway. I think biggest for me is the likes of the dishwasher and washer/dryer.

They're quite noisy and it's not fair to be running them in apartment blocks, i try be considerate. Not to mention they're a fire hazard at night.

Out of curiosity I wonder how much the likes of an electric shower uses? Thankfully no need to use heating yet. Currently have all my windows open at a comfortable temp.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024873#Comment_118024873

I can answer that one for you. Your typical electric shower (lets take a Triton T90) has two settings. Running it at "1 bar" uses about 5Kw, and 2 bars (9Kw). With a unit of leccie at ~20 cents, your 12 minute shower at 2 bars = (12/60) x 9 x 0.20 = 36 Cents. Yeah, it rocks up pretty fast at 9KwHr!

Good of you to be neighbourly for others in the apt block, but not sure I agree with you about the "they're a fire hazard". Sure, like all electrical appliances, one could conceivably catch fire, but you don't worry about your fridge do you? Apparently that is one of the "Top5" appliances which do catch fire. Since you don't plug that out every night out of worry and leave it in 24x7, your probably over worrying about your dish washer. Still, not wanting to wake the neighbors is a good reason in itself.....

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023396#Comment_118023396

I don't see what the problem is here. Electric Ireland issue bills every two months. My bill comes the first week on the odd months, so I submit a reading a couple of days before the bill is due. Doesn't cause me any problems.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024873#Comment_118024873

An electric shower is typically 8.5-9 kW. So 10 minutes in the shower will typically be somewhere between 1-1.5 kw.

Bobeagleburger

Electric showers are hungry for units alright

paulbok

Go visiting between 5-7pm.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025158#Comment_118025158

And use their shower 😂

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025178#Comment_118025178

I like that....very clever.

SlitDrip

Was talking to a friend of mine in the industry and he said that there is more peak tariff hours in discussion.

8-9am & 1-2Pm .

Absolutely appalling if they try and pull this off.

bullit_dodger

While I'm against paying more, the idea of peak tariff's is actually a good one. It's good for the environment, helps smooth the load on the grid, stops us from having to build more power stations. They might not run the tumble dryer at 6pm, etc People shouldn't be adverse to peak tariffs, but (and here's the crux!) if they want to have extra peak tariff the "other periods" should have lower rates. Doesn't have to be that you raise the rate to create a peak, they could lower the other times too!

If they are using smart tariffs for the correct reasons listed above, that's a good thing......but if they are using it to gouge people for a few quid, that's not right.

slave1

The only way the consumer will respond to assist balancing the load is through costs, empirically that is the single and only way it works across various fiscal policies.

bullit_dodger

Agreed slave - it's the old "hit them where it hurts most" :-) That usually works in changing peoples behavior. The only time where that doesn't sit 100% with me is if you have someone , or some family who can't shift the load to another time. Let's say a baby needs feeding, or some elderly person needs heat....still these are edge cases and obviously heating a bottle of milk isn't energy intensive.....just using it as an example.

Fun fact: The smart meters from Eirgrid's annual report for 2021, they reckon will curb peak utilization by 4%.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035346#Comment_118035346

Isn't that exactly what posters are saying though? off peak rates aren't available, why not encourage people to use off peak and have preferable rates there? appears from what people are saying to be all stick and no carrot though, no off peak/night rates available on smart meters and a penalty for using day rates?

Complaints seem to be around the lack of night rates for smart meters, which already existed for end users with existing meters, so people want to balance the load by directing their electrical usage to those times, that looks to me to be customers responding to balancing the load, everything else looks like gouging customers because they can.

bullit_dodger

I've no hard facts, but my suspicion for the background reason is a supply issue 1874 on the smart meters. The tariffs aren't favorable (deliberately) at the moment because ESB networks have to install 2.4 million smart meters in homes across Ireland before 2024. When you do the math, that's 800,000 a year....or about 3,000 meters every single day, when you factor out weekends/bank holidays.

What they don't want is Joe Duffy or some other moron telling all the OAP's to get one of the "new fangled smart meters" and save a tenner a month, just adding fuel to the fire. Letters to TD's ensue about how they are waiting months for a smart meter to be installed. Ach, you know the score I'm sure how these things go.

I'd be quite optimistic that once saturation occurs, we'll see favourable rates/tariffs come on stream. It's actually in their best interest to do that and their profit margins can be increased by people using renewables over Gas/Oil where they (the suppliers) have to pay for the raw energy source.

idc

Would it not have made more sense to just provide identical tariff system initially. ie 24hr and day/night at exact same price as old meters. Then initially it would make no difference and only when their almost finished installing them everywhere then bring in optional new smart tariffs. That way us with PV would have no problem using them now as we could keep our day/night tariff. Also would of meant no rush to demand one except if you refused during your areas initial roll out.

Maybe this is too sensible an idea 😉

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036952#Comment_118036952

It would.